Stop Pins

[Glenn056]

Hey everyone lets have a discussion about stop pins: External blade stops, conventional stop pin, internal stop pins et cetera. What are your thoughts?

My personal thoughts:

External blade stops- offers side to side stability for light prying, a smaller probability of denting due to two points of contact on the handle slabs (also assuming the contact points are hard enough to engage the stop pins), looks cool,more "hard use" in general.

Conventional stop pin- Tried and true, although the blade may slightly dent the contact surface of the pin in frequent hard flicking, causing later lockup.

Internal stop pin- Allows a sleeker design without obstruction. However the pivot area where the blade have been milled out for space for the stop pin just seems weak to me. So much material is removed. More for a light-medium use knife.

Do share your thoughts about the respective styles!

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[Thetimefarm]

I'm not sure that it really matters. I feel like when dealing with a well designed folding knife other pieces are going to break before the stop pin when the knife is under stress. I personally prefer internal stop pins because it allows the thumb studs to be in a more natural location (try thumb stud flicking 90% of zt knives) that makes deployment easier. Plus if you flatten out the stop pin at some point you can either rotate it or replace it easily as apposed to replacing the thumb studs. But I have both and use both with no issues.

 

[Glenn056]

I'm not sure that it really matters. I feel like when dealing with a well designed folding knife other pieces are going to break before the stop pin when the knife is under stress. I personally prefer internal stop pins because it allows the thumb studs to be in a more natural location (try thumb stud flicking 90% of zt knives) that makes deployment easier. Plus if you flatten out the stop pin at some point you can either rotate it or replace it easily as apposed to replacing the thumb studs. But I have both and use both with no issues.

I just feel that the thin corners of the blade pivot area due to all the milling might possibly crack (not saying all internal stop pinned knives would, maybe some) under harder use

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[braillediver]

not saying all internal stop pinned knives would, maybe some

So basically design, materials and execution are more important than any specific style.

 

[Glenn056]

Well they do aswell but internal stop pinned knives in general seem to have a weaker pivot area due to having so little "meat" in comparison to the others, especially if it was a bearing knife which requires even more milling to accommodate the bearings. Sacrifice some strength for a sleeker design, give and take , I guess

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[FlaMtnBkr]

I like when the blade has a radiused area removed from the blade at the stop pin contact point. So instead of one small contact point with a flat blade, there is like a half circle that makes contact and spreads out the contact area reducing pressure and the chance of deforming the stop pin. I know that's not a great description.

It's not on a ton of knives so I can't think of an example at the moment. I think my new Cold Steel Talwar has it but I don't have it with me.

It does and here is a pic:

 

[Glenn056]

I like when the blade has a radiused area removed from the blade at the stop pin contact point. So instead of one small contact point with a flat blade, there is like a half circle that makes contact and spreads out the contact area reducing pressure and the chance of deforming the stop pin. I know that's not a great description.

It's not on a ton of knives so I can't think of an example at the moment. I think my new Cold Steel Talwar has it but I don't have it with me.

It does and here is a pic:

Yup! The blade tang would "wrap" arounf the pin, spreading The pressure over a wider surface instead of as you said, a small contact point. All triad locks have a radiused tang indeed.

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[The Aflac Duck]

Well they do aswell but internal stop pinned knives in general seem to have a weaker pivot area due to having so little "meat" in comparison to the others, especially if it was a bearing knife which requires even more milling to accommodate the bearings. Sacrifice some strength for a sleeker design, give and take , I guess

Tapatalk signature removed by Blues Bender

Do you have any evidence of this? I'm assuming you don't, so don't spread misinformation.

 

[Glenn056]

Nobody has to take my words for gospel, of course. I'm just stating my personal opinions of what i see. A blade with a milled out pivot or a blade without, which is stronger, ummm...

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[Ccc]

I like external blade stops ala the Umnumzaan. Very elegant concept.
I love that the knife is held together by the pivot screw and one handle screw, and the thumb studs serve triple duty (thumb studs and blade stops in open and closed positions)

 

[Glenn056]

I like external blade stops ala the Umnumzaan. Very elegant concept.
I love that the knife is held together by the pivot screw and one handle screw, and the thumb studs serve triple duty (thumb studs and blade stops in open and closed positions)

Gorgeous knife indeed. Feel that it is almost underrated when compared the the Sebenzas

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[Biginboca]

Do you have any evidence of this? I'm assuming you don't, so don't spread misinformation.

How could you even debate this? Have you ever disassembled a hidden stop pin knife?





You think that could possible be as strong as a normal or thumbstud stop pin? After owning a few hidden pin knives I will no longer buy them. It's just an inherently weak design and there's no reason to use it since there is no added benefit in function. The highest stress area of the blade, right around the pivot, is mostly gone. The other stop pin designs move the pin further from the pivot giving the pin added leverage over the blades impact forces. Plus the lateral strength of the blade is way stronger without all that material removed obviously.

This is assuming same quality of manufacture and materials used on any 2 compared knives.

 

[The Aflac Duck]

I've disassembled and own numerous knives with hidden stops, never had a problem. One of the knives I've used most has one, and it's fine. I use my knives with common sense though, never needed to baton or spinewhack something

Also, the pic of the Southard is a knife that was defective which Sal replaced. There was a thread on that, didn't you read it?

So... how can you debate this without any evidence?
The Southard is not evidence

 

[Glenn056]

I've disassembled and own numerous knives with hidden stops, never had a problem. One of the knives I've used most has one, and it's fine. I use my knives with common sense though, never needed to baton or spinewhack something

Also, the pic of the Southard is a knife that was defective which Sal replaced. There was a thread on that, didn't you read it?

So... how can you debate this without any evidence?
The Southard is not evidence

But I think it's pretty common sense that a knife with an internal stop pin system with a heavily milled out pivot area, is weaker than a knife with the pivot area still intact. Probably not suited for hard cutting task such as through thick cardboard or carpet or other tough materials that might require some twisting in order to cut through, as opposed to knives with an intact pivot area , using external bladestops or the conventional stop pin.

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[Biginboca]

I've disassembled and own numerous knives with hidden stops, never had a problem. One of the knives I've used most has one, and it's fine. I use my knives with common sense though, never needed to baton or spinewhack something

Also, the pic of the Southard is a knife that was defective which Sal replaced. There was a thread on that, didn't you read it?

So... how can you debate this without any evidence?
The Southard is not evidence

Blues, the evidence is the first picture. We can all see how little the blade is supported by what's left of the milled out pivot area. Here's another internal stop pin knife pic from google images. Check out the areas in red circles. I'm sure everyone would agree this design does not provide much faith in a knifes robustness...



The OP asserted the internal stop pin was weaker than other designs. This is undoubtedly correct even if you choose to deny it to justify your purchases. You will never see a strider, Hinderer, etc with a milled out blade like that and an internal stop pin. It's not for hard use knives.

 

[Glenn056]

Blues, the evidence is the first picture. We can all see how little the blade is supported by what's left of the milled out pivot area. Here's another internal stop pin knife pic from google images. Check out the areas in red circles. I'm sure everyone would agree this design does not provide much faith in a knifes robustness...



The OP asserted the internal stop pin was weaker than other designs. This is undoubtedly correct even if you choose to deny it to justify your purchases. You will never see a strider, Hinderer, etc with a milled out blade like that and an internal stop pin. It's not for hard use knives.

+1. But there are "tough" looking knives out there with thick Ti handles and thick blade stock but internal stop pins... Not gonna state which knife but its a pretty well known one by a pretty well kown maker. Kinda makes me cringe.

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[Glenn056]

A picture from Google. Ouch that's some pretty milled out pivot area... The thinness of it. Of course one wouldn't expect such to be a hard use knife, more of a light use EDC/gentleman's folder.

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[kniferbro]

The solution to this is having an internal stop pin where the pin is pressed into a single hole in the blade and the "tracks" are milled into the liners, a la Spyderco Sage 5!

 

[Biginboca]

The solution to this is having an internal stop pin where the pin is pressed into a single hole in the blade and the "tracks" are milled into the liners, a la Spyderco Sage 5!

The newer Hinderer's also have this design. It definitely has a stronger blade than the Southard/Hoback style internal pin. It's more like the thumbstud stop pin.

 

[Glenn056]

Yep! Even the Buck Vantage has this setup, although the liners are pretty soft and deformed slightly...
Ah Biginboca, you named it😂. The Hoback Kwaiback seems like such a tough knife, ticks every box except the internal stop pin, which i do not understand why, for a knife that people would assume to be hard use.

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