Straight vs. curved "Samurai" swords

Ritt

Ritt

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This is an admittedly naive (potentially stupid) question. I was watching "Ran" this weekend, and noticed that most of the swords the war-lords were wearing were not the very straight swords (Katanas ?) that I typically think of as Samurai swords. The handles (excuse the poor terminology, please correct me as necessary) had a noticeable curve to them. I think the blades did too, though to a less noticeable degree. Was Kurosawa just playing fast and loose with his sword accuracy, or did samurai carry different styles of swords?
 
Ritt said:
This is an admittedly naive (potentially stupid) question. I was watching "Ran" this weekend, and noticed that most of the swords the war-lords were wearing were not the very straight swords (Katanas ?) that I typically think of as Samurai swords. The handles (excuse the poor terminology, please correct me as necessary) had a noticeable curve to them. I think the blades did too, though to a less noticeable degree. Was Kurosawa just playing fast and loose with his sword accuracy, or did samurai carry different styles of swords?
Click to expand...

I'm a bit perplexed... basically all samurai swords have a curve or sori... straight Japanese swords (with the exception of some very ancient designs) or "Ninja swords" are a product of hollywood... Does that answer your question?
 
Good point, I'm not being clear. I'm not talking about the gentle curve that is more or less constant along the lenth of the sword. In the case of the handle I'm talking about, it's more like the handle is in line with the blade coming back from the guard and then there is a point of inflection and a more pronounced curvature. Almost looks like an old flintlock pistol. Thanks Triton, I'll go look for pictures.
 
You were probably looking at tachi. The tachi is an older variety of Japanese sword - the distinction is unclear at times, but they are identifiable by the way they're carried and the increased length of the blade.

Tachi blades have a somewhat more prominent curve, on average, than buke-zukuri mounted stuff of later generations. They are carried edge-down at the side, and often have that pronounced handle curvature you mentioned. Same basic shapes and components, but geared more towards the horse-mounted warrior. As an aside, lots of historical Japanese stuff has a slight curve in the tsuka. It's just a lot less noticeable.

Curvature in general is highly variable - you have really deep sori on things like tachi, and then you have kanbun shinto style stuff, which is almost straight.
 
Ritt;

I personally found it difficult to comprehend your description, in terms of whether you are referring to a curve in the blade, or the handle ?

If it's the handle your referring to;

There is the "Imperial Katana", which has a subtle "S" shaped handle.
Some usually think that the manufacturer stuffed up, and accidently reversed the handle, as they are more familiar with those katana's with a straight handle.

Then there is the "Ceremonial Tachi", which has a handle that curves in line with the blade, so it looks similar to the fame of a bow, in that it's one continuous curve.

Both the "Tachi" and "Imperial", possess blades and handles which are curved more than the average katana, which has a blade that is only slightly curved, with a handle that follows the line of the blade's base.

If this all makes sense, hope it helps somewhat. :)

I'm not your Katana or Japanese Sword expert, so forgiove me if my terminology is somewhat simplistic.
 
I thought that the only real difference between a tachi and a katana was the way they were carried... learn something new every day...

Anyway, I would assume that the variable sori would be completely at the discretion of the smith who made it, but I don't know what effect it would have on the cutting geometry of the weapon.
 
Well, strictly speaking, tachi predate katana. Sometimes a tachi would have been shortened to make a katana. The differences are subtle but noticeable if you have experience with nihonto.

As for sori, a higher curve would make drawing a long blade easier when mounted. It makes it easier in any case, but buke-zukuri mounted swords were generally shorter, and geometry varied by smith anyway.
 
Thanks for all the information folks, and especially that thread from swordforums, senoBDEC. Definitely a tachi, as they were attached to the belt with hangers, were carried by men on horseback, and had a strongly curved tsuka. It was in fact this strongly curved tsuka that I was trying (unsuccessfully) to describe in my initial posts. It was the curved tsuka that really got me wondering about the functionality of the sword, because it seemed to me that it would be awkward to use this style of sword two-handed, as the back hand would be at a very different angle to the blade than the forward hand. Makes sense then that these were meant to be used by men on horseback (one-handed).
 
they work okay two-handed too as I understand. It sort of forces a slicing motion. Depends on the size and distribution of weight I suppose.... for instance I remember seeing a short (24 in -ish) tachi on a nihonto for sale site.... hm.
Here's a funny thread about the irrepressibly stupid topic (but it includes some nice pics of tachi used for unmounted armored combat):
Samurai vs Knight
 
knife saber said:
Well, strictly speaking, tachi predate katana. Sometimes a tachi would have been shortened to make a katana. The differences are subtle but noticeable if you have experience with nihonto.

As for sori, a higher curve would make drawing a long blade easier when mounted. It makes it easier in any case, but buke-zukuri mounted swords were generally shorter, and geometry varied by smith anyway.
Click to expand...

That's very interesting, makes good sense, too...
 
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