Substitute for ray skin?

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flatgrinder

flatgrinder

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Anyone use a substitute for ray skin when making a Japanese cord wrap?

Seems like a shame to kill this fish for its skin and charge $60 for one. Anything look similar and works just as well?

Thanks! :thumbup:
 
Hey....they have to kill the fish to make bogus bay scallops to serve to tourists anyway......lol Seriously...i suspect that most of the ray skin we see is actually skate and is harvested for food. All I have to do is walk on a beach in the Bahamas or the Florida Keys or look in the canal in my parent's back yard during breeding season to tell you that rays are in NO danger of extinction due to a few knifemakers using their skin for handle underwrap.
 
jdm61 said:
Hey....they have to kill the fish to make bogus bay scallops to serve to tourists anyway......lol Seriously...i suspect that most of the ray skin we see is actually skate and is harvested for food. All I have to do is walk on a beach in the Bahamas or the Florida Keys or look in the canal in my parent's back yard during breeding season to tell you that rays are in NO danger of extinction due to a few knifemakers using their skin for handle underwrap.
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Yes, I am told by a friend that travels the Pacific Rim and thereabouts that these rays are like extremely plentiful.'
 
I suspect that the relatively high cost is not because the rays are rare but because curing the skin may be a bit complicated.
 
I make custom holsters, and I have never seen a "Substitute" for stingray. There are several places that sell skins, and for $60.00 you should be able to get a giant skin (30").

The only other skin that might be comparable, but not a substitute is shark. It has quite a bit of texture, but does not have the bite of the boney little rays. Shark runs about $12.00 per foot, with small hides running about 8 feet square. They are long and skinny, and I can get two or three decent sized belts out of one of the small skins. I would think you could wrap many projects with a single hide.

5Shot
 
Just for the record, I saw a tanto done with shark skin in Tokyo a couple years back, so it wouldn't be out of line to use. Wish I could remember more specifics, but I'm sorry, that's all my mind let me keep.
 
sometimes I texture leather to simulate ray. I have used hemp, paracord, twisted wire and g-10. My favorite nowadays is python. I cant post a pic but there are some python tanto's on my homepage.
 
5shot said:
I make custom holsters, and I have never seen a "Substitute" for stingray. There are several places that sell skins, and for $60.00 you should be able to get a giant skin (30").

The only other skin that might be comparable, but not a substitute is shark. It has quite a bit of texture, but does not have the bite of the boney little rays. Shark runs about $12.00 per foot, with small hides running about 8 feet square. They are long and skinny, and I can get two or three decent sized belts out of one of the small skins. I would think you could wrap many projects with a single hide.
30" is a HUGE skin. The only place i have seen the really those large stingrays is in the Keys when i was a young lad. Folks used to harpoon them and the rays were big enough that they would take a 17 foot boat on a Nantucket sleigh ride.
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The wrap under the cord can be anything that will hold up to use. If the knife/sword is decorative, it can be wrapped in almost anything. Here are a list of choices:
Textured leather - Kudu, ostrich, elephant, buffalo,etc.
Exotic leather - Snake, Lizard, alligator, frog,walrus, seal,etc.
Rawhide,deerskin,etc.
Material - Silk, velvet,felt, canvas,etc.
Cord - anything from thread to paracord to leather lacing.Wind in a continuous spiral and seal with lacquer or resin.
Wood - no wrap needed if the handle is on a decorative show piece. Make the sheath of matching wood. - Snakewood, bocote, bubinga, etc.

You could even do the handle in lacquer, or cover it in gold leaf.

How about applying a base of black lacquer and building up clear layers with tiny flowers (cherry blossoms) in the clear coat. Wrap with a white or pink ito.Make the saya to match.

I think you should get the picture by now - The possibilities are endless.
Stacy
 
jdm61 said:
30" is a HUGE skin. The only place i have seen the really those large stingrays is in the Keys when i was a young lad. Folks used to harpoon them and the rays were big enough that they would take a 17 foot boat on a Nantucket sleigh ride.
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One of the places I buy my exotics lists large skins like that (up to 30"), but I rarely work with sting ray because it is really hard on my stitcher and my good knives.

5Shot

BTW - most sting ray comes from Thailand, and it might be hard to find bigger ones for a while due to the Tsunami.
 
5shot said:
One of the places I buy my exotics lists large skins like that (up to 30"), but I rarely work with sting ray because it is really hard on my stitcher and my good knives.

5Shot

BTW - most sting ray comes from Thailand, and it might be hard to find bigger ones for a while due to the Tsunami.
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Ummmmm......actually, they would have been real easy to find.......for a few days:D bad joke, i know. I don't think we really catch them commercially in Flroida because we don't knowingly eat them. To us, they are just kind of a cool critter that you try not to step on. Kind of like a barracuda, which i call a "tourist fish" cuz they look mean and the tourists love it when they catch them, but they are nigh useless both as food and as a game fish...lol.
 
One maker here in Korea uses sturgeon skin under a Japanese-style cord wrap. It doesn't solve the fish killing "problem," but it does make an interesting handle.

For the record, no skate/rays here in Korea go uneaten!

John
 
John...I am sure that skates and rays are quite tasty. The historical problem we have had in the States has been that, other than at authentic sushi joints and other oriental restaurants, they have been passed off as something they are not, usually bay scallops. We have had the same problem in the Northeast with mako and porbeagle shark being passed off as swordfish over the years, which, unlike skates and rays, does create an endangerment problem.
we currently have the same issue with many types of fish being passed off as grouper in central Florida.
 
I talked with a maker at Blade from New Mexico, (sorry, can't remember his name) that used black skateboard deck tape underneath his wrap on some small utility knives. Looked good, felt good.

Just another idea ....

VV
Clark
 
John Frankl said:
One maker here in Korea uses sturgeon skin under a Japanese-style cord wrap. It doesn't solve the fish killing "problem," but it does make an interesting handle.

For the record, no skate/rays here in Korea go uneaten!

John
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I hope it was a small one - the skutes (sp?) on the side of a 60" from the Columbia River out here would cut your hand in two! They are sharp as hell and 1/2" tall or more.

5Shot
 
Yeah, John. It is going to be like selcting any other "leather" product. Quality of the skin, both appearnace and durability wise and how well it works for the purpose intended.
 
flatgrinder said:
Anyone use a substitute for ray skin when making a Japanese cord wrap?

Seems like a shame to kill this fish for its skin and charge $60 for one. Anything look similar and works just as well?

Thanks! :thumbup:
Click to expand...
I have tried several alternatives , my favorite , even above the genuine article is "Herculiner" truck bed coating. It IS the most durable coating short of epoxy I have ever worked with.
It cures with a pebbly texture a little more coarse than ray skin but wears like iron . It's expensive but bite the bullet and buy the herculiner brand , you won't regret it. You'll find a multitude of alternative uses for it around the shop . Best wishes ..
 
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