Substituting other knifemaking tools with a dremel?

Noctis3880

Noctis3880

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Jul 22, 2009
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I'm trying to get a knifemaking setup going with limited space and money(think college dorm room almost). I do have a bit of space in the backyard maybe about 6' by 20', including the grass and plants. Though it's not exactly a secure location given that it's an apartment complex and anyone can just unlock the gate and walk into the backyard, so any tools used outside must be portable enough to put back inside the house without too much hassle.

I figure a folding wood worktable, table clamps, my Worksharp(mini belt sander, 1/2" x 12" belts), and a dremel would get me started. I figure the dremel could replace a hacksaw and drill easily, though I'm not sure how that works out. I've never actually used one before, but I heard the dremel works differently from a drill by cutting with speed rather than torque. Though I'm not sure if using a dremel to cut steel would wear the tool out prematurely. I was thinking of starting out with 1084, then AEB-L, and maybe move up to D2. Heat treat would have to be sent out, and I hear a surface grinder would be needed if the steel is shipped in slightly warped.
 
I have the tools you have and I'm trying to think of what kind of knives could be made with your setup....

Maybe some very small hunting or bird and trout knives. A cord wrapped necker of some sort. The little work sharp belt grinder is an awesome little tool. The coarse belts would probably cut a decent convex bevel on a small blade, and shape a wood or micarta handle nicely because it's a slack belt. The dremel could drill small holes for pins.

Not the most optimal of knifemaking setups, and obviously there will be guys telling you to get more stuff and space, but thats not the answer you're after. My knives are made in a space not real different than you, but the only difference is that I have a 2x72 grinder and a cheap drill press.

If I just had your tools I'd be confident that I could take a small piece of 1 inch wide, 1/8th stock and make a very simple nice little bird and trout blade with a convex bevel. Go for it!
 
I would much rather have a good hacksaw and blades than try to put out a profile with a Dremel.

With the work well clamped to a table, railing, whatever is available it would go much faster & no electricity is needed.
 
The only thing I use the small cutting disks on a dremel for is cutting pins-I find a hacksaw much more suitable for blade and bolster material. I'm not sure how a hacksaw would do with clamps in place of a vise though..so it wouldn't do any harm trying. I just recommend getting one of the more expensive corded dremels..the weak,cheap $20 one I have has to be recharged way to often.

I've never tried drilling with a dremel, so can't say anything about that.
 
THe problem with drilling metal with a dremel is RPM's. Even if you limit yourself to 1/8" holes to fit the dremel's abilities, the rpms are way too high for drilling steel. The other issue is that when drilling if you wobble, which is going to happen with a hand held drill, you wind up with oddly shaped and sized holes in your handle materials. If you stick to very thin handle material, or cord wrap, it won't be a huge issue, just don't expect perfection for the holes.
 
A high tension hacksaw with bimetal blades, about 4 3" C-clamps, a railing can be used but a sturdy bench is nice, a 24" piece of 2x4 lumber, and a large half round bastard file, and maybe a few smaller ones. If you wanted to buy one piece of equipment, a small table top drill press and good drill bits is where I would spend the money. The hacksaw can cut your handle material as well, you can build a sturdy bench from two 4x4's and a half sheet of plywood. A bench vise would be very useful, but not required. You can use a hand drill, but if you have the money, spend it on even a used drill press. Most all of this can be had at garage sales, or second hand. Just add steel, wood, glue, sandpaper, some pin material, and plenty of determination with a dash of imagination and you will have a knife in no time!

Good luck and don't forget to post pictures or it didn't happen!


-Xander
 
A $99 ryobi drill press, and a 1x30" grinder from grizzly or harbor freight, files, sand paper...and a dust buster ;) The drill press is a central tool, it will really help avoid frustration and if you're creative can serve other purposes. The dremel is prone to ruining things really...you can use it as a buffer and it works great at that.

If you end up with a 1x30" I have some belts I will gladly send you at my cost to get you started out, pm if you need them.
 
I might make a WIP thread using just these materials. Sounds like an awesome challenge to me. I am 100% confident that I could make something using only the tools that he has mentioned.
 
A Dremel is a poor substitute for a real drill press. It's an even worse substitute for a couple of good files and a vise. If you are really cash strapped, don't waste money on the Dremel. Buy a high tension hack saw, a good vise, and a few good files. You will make FAR better knives that way.

- Greg
 
Remyrw said:
THe problem with drilling metal with a dremel is RPM's. Even if you limit yourself to 1/8" holes to fit the dremel's abilities, the rpms are way too high for drilling steel. The other issue is that when drilling if you wobble, which is going to happen with a hand held drill, you wind up with oddly shaped and sized holes in your handle materials. If you stick to very thin handle material, or cord wrap, it won't be a huge issue, just don't expect perfection for the holes.
Click to expand...
What problems arise from the high RPMs? I ask because I spotted a Workstation attachment that is supposed to make the Dremel function like a drill press. I would assume heat would be an issue, though I'm not sure it matters on an annealed piece.

Josh Mason said:
I have the tools you have and I'm trying to think of what kind of knives could be made with your setup....

Maybe some very small hunting or bird and trout knives. A cord wrapped necker of some sort. The little work sharp belt grinder is an awesome little tool. The coarse belts would probably cut a decent convex bevel on a small blade, and shape a wood or micarta handle nicely because it's a slack belt. The dremel could drill small holes for pins.

Not the most optimal of knifemaking setups, and obviously there will be guys telling you to get more stuff and space, but thats not the answer you're after. My knives are made in a space not real different than you, but the only difference is that I have a 2x72 grinder and a cheap drill press.

If I just had your tools I'd be confident that I could take a small piece of 1 inch wide, 1/8th stock and make a very simple nice little bird and trout blade with a convex bevel. Go for it!
Click to expand...
Yes, I was going for a simple fixed blade with cord wrapped handles(maybe some holes in the holes for weight reduction). Though I'm not intentionally going after a convex, my coarse grit belts are pretty slack in the Worksharp. I wanted something like a zero edge FFG with a microbevel, as that seems to be how Phil Wilson does his knives, and those buggers slice WELL. Just not sure 1084 can take the hardness to hold that fine edge(I figure Rc 60+ is a minimum).

I'm thinking with the Workstation attachment I could drill holes along the drawn lines for the shape of the knife, cut near them but not on the lines themselves to have some allowance for errors, then grind the rest to match the lines on the Worksharp. Just not sure how the holes in the handles would work out as I doubt the circular saw attachment would fit inside, though I haven't seen all the available attachments for the tool yet. But I figure if you can cut stainless steel pipe with the tool, annealed carbon steel would be no problem.
 
Don't drill holes to cut out your shape. Get a piece of steel that is wide enough to accommodate the knife you're doing. That will save you alot of grinding/sawing etc. I don't recommend doing a knife any bigger than 5in or 6in overall, and no thicker than 1/8th with these methods though.

Most Dremel models are variable speed. I don't see an issue with high rpm. A dremel with a reinforced cutoff disc will cut through a 1/8th piece of steel pretty easily.

Also, you could make a finger groove, and other curves with the little sanding drums. You can move through annealed steel pretty quickly.

I have the work sharp, and with the belts they supply with the machine, you could probably grind and finish a couple of decent convex bevels. A plunge line would be out of the question for me though. The belt is slack, so that is the grind you're gonna get.

I think a small knife project is 100% do-able with these tools.
 
A 3/8" cordless or even a corded drill will do much better than a dremel for your pin holes. Dremels are over rated in my opinion at least in knife making they are fine for very minor trimming but for drilling round holes in the 1/8" to 1/4'' range I call them worthless
 
Josh Mason said:
Don't drill holes to cut out your shape. Get a piece of steel that is wide enough to accommodate the knife you're doing. That will save you alot of grinding/sawing etc. I don't recommend doing a knife any bigger than 5in or 6in overall, and no thicker than 1/8th with these methods though.

Most Dremel models are variable speed. I don't see an issue with high rpm. A dremel with a reinforced cutoff disc will cut through a 1/8th piece of steel pretty easily.

Also, you could make a finger groove, and other curves with the little sanding drums. You can move through annealed steel pretty quickly.

I have the work sharp, and with the belts they supply with the machine, you could probably grind and finish a couple of decent convex bevels. A plunge line would be out of the question for me though. The belt is slack, so that is the grind you're gonna get.

I think a small knife project is 100% do-able with these tools.
Click to expand...
Wait what? Are we thinking a same thing? I thought it was standard to drill a series of holes around the shape, then cut along the dotted lines. I figure it was done for control.
 
Noctis3880 said:
I thought it was standard to drill a series of holes around the shape, then cut along the dotted lines. I figure it was done for control.
Click to expand...
It's done when working with thick stock by people (like me) who don't have a good metal-cutting bandsaw. Josh is right, the reinforced cutting wheels will cut 1/8" or thinner steel pretty well. They work best cutting straight or barely-curved lines. You're going to want a decent file to smooth out the profile. You could do it with the Dremel and sanding drums, but honestly a file will be just as fast.

If I'm understanding this right, you don't already own a Dremel? For the cost of a decent corded Dremel and the workstation you can get a table-top drill press and a good high-tension hacksaw. Probably have money left over for other fun things if you look on Craigslist for a used drill press. As said above, even a cordless drill would work OK if you have a steady hand.

I do own a Dremel tool, and occasionally use it with cutting disks, but mostly with sanding drums for shaping handles and cleaning up inside curves that are a pain to hand-sand. It's not at all well-suited for major stock removal, and I certainly wouldn't want to drill steel with it.
 
I made a statement about the dremel and maybe disregarded it to quickly. It has some applications like blending small radii. cutting thin materials and such but I've found using no more than my 1 x 30 sander, a drill and a sharp file gets the job done and my Dremel led to some recovery work that was accompanied with some "expletive".

Trying to accomplish a larger respectable grind line without a belt grinder should probably be avoided but for small blades it can be worked around.

A nice looking knife can be accomplished with draw and flat filing, but its slow.
 
The problem with a dremel for drilling is that it starts at 5k rpm on most models. This is WAY too fast for drilling steel. It's not that the heat ruins the steel, it's that it melts the drill bit into an unsharp somewhat blunt object very quickly. When drilling steel you generally go Ssssslllloooooowwwwwwww and even with 1/8" bits I generally stay well under 1k rpms on a drill press with appropriate drill bits. Heck, I usually am closer to 350-500rpm, higher speeds have uses, but not for drilling into steel with normal bits. Some folks go for high speed with carbide bits, but that's a whole different story and not something you hand hold.

Don't confuse the little press attachment for the dremel with a drill press. It's just a way to hold it and lower it smoothly. It will NOT hold it and the material perfectly stable and does not let the dremel replace a real drill or drill press. You have the same rpm/power limits, you just made reduce the odds of a huge wobble.

I use my dremel a fair bit on knives. It's got all sorts of uses from blending, polishing, cleaning out tang holes after heat treat... But it's the first power tool I'd discard. I'd rather have a cheap drill press I had to haul outside when I wanted to use it.

A small drill press (big enough for a 1/4" bit with clearance for a drill press vice and your handle material, so you can't go too tiny), a 2x42 craftsman grinder and a cheap 4.5" angle grinder are all inexpensive, portable and more than enough to work with. You'd still need a stable work surface, clamps, safety gear and suitable drill bits and abrasive belts. I'd add a basic corded drill that can double as a buffer and sander. You mount a small sanding drum on it and can radius the inside of a handle or other design features that are too tight for the grinder. I use my drill as a buffer far more often than as a drill. It's not perfect, but I'm not into the perfect mirror finish look so it's good enough for my needs.
 
A Dremel is not a substitute for any other tool-even though they sell them as such. They are precision tools that can be very useful, but they aren't machine tools.
 
james terrio said:
It's done when working with thick stock by people (like me) who don't have a good metal-cutting bandsaw. Josh is right, the reinforced cutting wheels will cut 1/8" or thinner steel pretty well. They work best cutting straight or barely-curved lines. You're going to want a decent file to smooth out the profile. You could do it with the Dremel and sanding drums, but honestly a file will be just as fast.

If I'm understanding this right, you don't already own a Dremel? For the cost of a decent corded Dremel and the workstation you can get a table-top drill press and a good high-tension hacksaw. Probably have money left over for other fun things if you look on Craigslist for a used drill press. As said above, even a cordless drill would work OK if you have a steady hand.

I do own a Dremel tool, and occasionally use it with cutting disks, but mostly with sanding drums for shaping handles and cleaning up inside curves that are a pain to hand-sand. It's not at all well-suited for major stock removal, and I certainly wouldn't want to drill steel with it.
Click to expand...
I would actually use the file mostly for control to make sure I don't grind off more than what's necessary. I know power tools can eat things up pretty fast, though that's primarily my reason for looking at the Dremel over a hacksaw, as I would assume that the dremel could do it much faster. Particularly if I move up to D2 with the intended setup, as 1/8" thick piece of D2 with a hacksaw sounds like an entire day of fun. Plus I've found that my hands aren't particularly steady with repetitive motions, mostly why I seem to have prettier edges on the Worksharp than I ever could have gotten on benchstones.

Drilling may be only a secondary concern as it would only be for removing some metal inside the handle area for weight reduction. I suspect I could get away with skipping it entirely though. That may be the case as the holes I usually see in neck knives are about half an inch in diameter, which seems a hell of a lot bigger than any drill bit I've seen. The large cutout along the Izula handles appeal to me the most, though I'm not sure how one goes about cutting that out even with the small cutting wheel on the Dremel.

Of course, one thing about the Dremel that makes me wary would be the accidental mishaps that might end up with a missing finger, as well as rumors of shrapnel coming off from the bit. I've got safety goggles and even a breathing mask if dust is an issue, though I'm not sure if thick leather gloves would be recommended or even provide adequate protection(as the cutting disk cuts through steel), as I figure that would negate the precision benefit of the Dremel.
 
Dremel rotary tools are not designed to be used with a heavy touch. You will be sorely dissapointed if you try to use one to replace heavier tools.
 
This works great on guards and blades alike.

Cut some square pieces from old blue jean material, stack them up and push a sharp scribe through the center to create a hole. Use a mandrel that screws together; insert the mandrel through the hole, insert the screw and tighten.

I find this set up to be much less dangerous than a large stationary buffer. Its great for guards; hold the guard in one hand with the buffer in the other. Its very easy to get into the finger groove and other tight places without the tendency to jerk the piece out of your hand.

When buffing blade surfaces, lock the blade in a vise and move the buffer. Its great for cleaning up the grooves at the plunge cuts.

If you have never used blue jean material to buff with you are in for a pleasant surprise.

Fred

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