Suggest a microscope for examining my edge

R

river251

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Jul 26, 2013
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I want a microscope to get a close look at my edge. 1000x at least. I know there are USB microscopes but the cheap ones don't seem to have good images. I'm thinking of a traditional biological microscope, with illumination from underneath, though I would not use that and would illuminate from above. I don't know if at max power the blade would fit between the stage and the lens though and if light could get in there, I've never used one ofd these.

What do people use?

Thanks
Jim
 
A jewler's lupe.

Not sure why you want to examine the edge under a microscope. No matter how finely you polish the edge there will be microscopic "serrations" , and a "blunt" edge even if it was possible to sharpen the edge down to one atom across.
 
10x Loupe is generally plenty of magnification for knife edges. But you can get 20x pretty easily. An example > http://www.geo-tools.com/hand-lenses-loupes/belomo-20x-quadruplet-hand-lens-loupe

Here is an example that goes to 1600x sold by walmart. Not too pricey but I think the magnification is too high for knives. But who knows? It might be fun. https://www.walmart.com/ip/AmScope-Binocular-Biological-Microscope-40X-1600X-New/39470889

I would be more inclined to look at this model with both above and below light sources. https://www.walmart.com/ip/AmScope-...hguid=cd44f3e7-e7b-16b1de78cebba2&athena=true
 
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A biological microscope won't work, they rely on light passing through the object you are observing. You would need a metallurgical microscope. However, even if you got one you would have a hard time seeing your edges at 1000x, it would need to be very flat because the "depth of field" is poor. You can learn a lot about the edges at lower magnifications where your options are much greater and the cost would be lower.
 
Larrin said:
A biological microscope won't work, they rely on light passing through the object you are observing. You would need a metallurgical microscope. However, even if you got one you would have a hard time seeing your edges at 1000x, it would need to be very flat because the "depth of field" is poor. You can learn a lot about the edges at lower magnifications where your options are much greater and the cost would be lower.
Click to expand...

Larrin beat me to it... the biologic isn't gonna work. I suppose the real problem would be keeping the knife between the slide and cover... ;)

1000X seems crazy to me. I get more than I need out of 10X.
 
afishhunter said:
A jewler's lupe.

Not sure why you want to examine the edge under a microscope. No matter how finely you polish the edge there will be microscopic "serrations" , and a "blunt" edge even if it was possible to sharpen the edge down to one atom across.
Click to expand...

Thanks afishhunter. I want to be able to see if the edge is folding over, see the burr developing, and just generally develiop a mental picture in my head of what is going on with the edge.
 
Velitrius said:
Larrin beat me to it... the biologic isn't gonna work. I suppose the real problem would be keeping the knife between the slide and cover... ;)

1000X seems crazy to me. I get more than I need out of 10X.
Click to expand...

Can you see the burr when sharpening, and can you see the edge folding over when it happens? Guess I should say if it happens....
 
Thanks everyone for the replies.
22-rimfire said:
10x Loupe is generally plenty of magnification for knife edges. But you can get 20x pretty easily. An example > http://www.geo-tools.com/hand-lenses-loupes/belomo-20x-quadruplet-hand-lens-loupe
Click to expand...

Thanks for the links, I like that latter one but I wish it went to 1000.

Here is an example of what I want to be able to see, about halfway through this video, where he shows 400 power then 1000 power pics. I just would like to be able to do this myself with my edges.

 
river251 said:
Can you see the burr when sharpening, and can you see the edge folding over when it happens? Guess I should say if it happens....
Click to expand...

You can usually feel it. I have thick fingernails, like guitar picks, and I just run the blade down the end of my nail. It'll snag if there's a roll or a chip. A 10x loupe is usually plenty of magnification to identify the snag issue once felt.
 
T.L.E. Sharp said:
You can usually feel it. I have thick fingernails, like guitar picks, and I just run the blade down the end of my nail. It'll snag if there's a roll or a chip. A 10x loupe is usually plenty of magnification to identify the snag issue once felt.
Click to expand...

Yes, T.L.E. is correct. I don't look for anything unless I feel something.

I've actually snapped a pic with my phone on 8X zoom before and it was enough for me.

I see what you are looking for, based on that video you posted. You're venturing into metallographic microscopy there.

I simply don't know how seeing that closely would benefit ME, so I'm at a loss as to how to give you guidance from here.

Please do keep us posted if you find a method that gets you to where you want to go with this.
 
T.L.E. Sharp said:
You can usually feel it. I have thick fingernails, like guitar picks, and I just run the blade down the end of my nail. It'll snag if there's a roll or a chip. A 10x loupe is usually plenty of magnification to identify the snag issue once felt.
Click to expand...

Exactly what I was going to say. No need to see it, you can feel it. Sounds like this guy might be battling wire edges...

OP, if that’s the case, spend lots more time with the finer grit stones, then strop, strop, strop. It’ll stop flopping back and forth and get polished off.
 
If you don't pull the blade on the stone you shouldn't get a wire edge.
I have no idea why some think you should sharpen to get a wire edge and then strop it off.
I was taught to avoid a wire edge when sharpening when I was a rug rat, sixty year ago.
I don't know if the same holds true for modern "super steels", but I was also taught to strop (with a dry leather strop) to maintain my edges.
A stone was only used -- and miminally even then -- if stropping didn't bring the edge back.
The blades last longer before being sharpened to a toothpick that way.
 
Well guys, this is the micoscope he uses, he replied back to me. Linked at the bottom. Way, way out of my budget. I guess I'll just have to do without.

I've been using my sharpmaker since it came out. I have the old version. When I started carrying an expensive knife, the Benchmade 665, I wanted to do something better. I have never been comfortable with sharpening to the tip on the sharpmaker. It's awkward and too easy to round the tip for my liking.

Thanks for the suggestions on loupes. The BelOMO 20x is $27 on Amazon right now, may go for that. According to other threads here it compares well with B&L and Zeiss.

I'm thinking of going with the WEN 4270 wet grinder. My only concern is buffing the nice finish off the blade with the leather strop. I'l try some old knives first.

Thanks for your help.

 
If you are really looking for an actual microscope, then I would suggest a Jeweler's or Dissecting microscope. They usually can be had with a generous stage clearance and the binocular version is pleasing to use. Used ones can be reasonably had if you are willing to take the risk.

n2s
 
I inherited a Zeiss microscope from a doctor from the 60s or early 70s, added a usb eyepiece and it totally changed the way I sharpen! I have a 10x loupe and while it is nice it doesn't do squat compared with my microscope. The biggest surprise the microscope shined a light on was microchipping that I couldn't otherwise see. Sure if you can't see it why bother but by modifying the way I sharpen I can stop it. It also shows why you need to remove some steel occasionally vs just touching up. No experience but I have been told to get a stereo microscope for things like this, night and day difference. It seems there is also a night and day difference in price.

Perhaps look for used?
 
A stereo or dissecting microscope is by far the most useful for sharpening (and working with small parts and removing slivers). My second choice would be a 10x watchmaker loupe.

Metallurgical/Materials microscope are really only useful for flat pieces, for example if you want to look at the grain structure after etching.
 
river251 said:
I want a microscope to get a close look at my edge. 1000x at least. I know there are USB microscopes but the cheap ones don't seem to have good images. I'm thinking of a traditional biological microscope, with illumination from underneath, though I would not use that and would illuminate from above. I don't know if at max power the blade would fit between the stage and the lens though and if light could get in there, I've never used one ofd these.

What do people use?

Thanks
Jim
Click to expand...

I use something a bit different than most... a pocket microscope. Most of the stuff I can see with a loupe I can detect by other means... the microscope shows me what I can't.

They do take a bit of getting used to because the image is "backwards"... some find that difficult, but I haven't found it to be an issue.

I actually found a short video this a.m. where it's being used to look at knife edges... to give you an idea...


...(in fact, I ordered this one today, because it uses a AA battery, and my current one uses "button" batteries, that I never have around). :)

This level of magnification is more than enough to detect things that affect the blade in actual use.
 
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