Suggestions for first "real" kitchen knife/knives

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Jan 24, 2018
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Alrighty, I don't know how many times you guys have heard this but I've been into knives forever, and have quite a bit of experience with them and am up to date on most of the steels, uses, etc. I also know jack shit about kitchen knives lol. I'm starting to do a lot more cooking in efforts to be healthier in the long run and we've never had real quality kitchen cutlery here at my house. I know there's ways to care for them, wash them, store them and everything to keep them from getting beat up and I get that, I just need to know the quality and brands/makers that are well known to last me. I don't want to buy anything crappy and I wouldn't even know what crappy is at this point. So let's get the suggestions rolling!
 
Kitchen knives are one of those things where you really can't go "one and done." I don't think it is possible to bypass the learning curve.

If I were doing it all over again I would get a Victorinox Fibrox 8" or 10" chef's knife as a starter kitchen knife to learn on. It's only $40-ish, has a good stainless steel at about 56 HRC hardness, doesn't require any high-end water stones to sharpen, and will respond well to a honing steel for quick touchups. Then use that as a learner while you develop your skills and preferences.

If you know (or think) you prefer the flatter profile found on French or Japanese knives, then the Tojiro DP Gyuto in 210, 240, or 270 mm lengths (8.2, 9.4, or 10.6 " respectively) is a good choice in VG-10 steel at a hardness of 60 HRC. These are up in the $100 range.

You might also look at the Zwilling Pro chef's knife. I have one from that product line and it is a good knife. I like the slanted bolster which works well with a pinch grip. I don't care for the high tip / big belly that Zwilling puts on their chef's knives (the Victorinox is flatter, and the Tojiro more so), but that's a personal preference. Those are a bit more pricey than the Tojiro, running in the $150-ish range.

Wusthof Classic Ikon chef's knife is another decent mainstream German brand. Closer to $200 for an 8" chef's. Pretty much the same steel as in the Victorinox and Zwilling. Wusthof has several lines - the Classic Ikon is the only one that has features I personally prefer. I don't own any of these.

Beyond a good general-purpose chef's knife, depending on what you are doing in the kitchen, you may or may not want a few more knives of other sizes, shapes, and purposes. I generally don't buy "sets" but prefer to pick and choose the right type of knife for the specific purpose.

As you go along and develop your knife skills, you learn more of what you do and don't like, or what works best on the types of food you are processing. That's when you can start refining what you are looking for in a knife, as far as blade shape, balance, handle type and shape, type of bolster (or lack thereof), etc.

Keep in mind you'll want a good cutting surface that won't damage the knife blade, and that your sharpening skills and tools will need to match the knives and type of steel.
 
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I suggest you go directly to a stainless/ish Japanese chef knife and branch out from there. The one on the top is a 10” Miyabi. Extremely thin/hard, very easy to keep sharp, and goes through veggies like butter.

Nothing really to worry about re: maintenance, just treat it carefully and wash by hand. If it’s got a nice finish then wash carefully with soft cloth/sponge.

Paring knife - imho the Robert Herder windmill knives (bottom two - one carbon and one in stainless) are very hard to beat. The wharncliffe style blade comes particularly thin in these and I thinned ours even more. Stupid sharp.

I’d be pretty happy with just these 3 blades in the kitchen.

Magnetic boards are also an easy way to keep edges protected.
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I would look at a Tojiro DP 210mm gyuto, a Kohetsu 210mm Gyuto or a Harukaze 210mm gyuto. These Japanese blades are harder than Victorinox, Henckels, Wustoff, etc, so they will take and hold a very fine edge better. But with being harder and thinner, they will not hold up to the abuse people put kitchen knives through. If you have a nice wood cutting board and will be willing to not pry, hack bones or frozen food with the knives and can handle sharpening them, go for a Japanese blade. Get some strops/compounds and/or Japanese water stones (get name brand stuff, not the generic Amazon type stuff!!) and learn how to maintain your knives. Many of the Japanese Wa handled knives are lighter than their western counterparts as well.

If not, go for a Victorinox or Henckels and get a sharpening steel. Both will work, but I vastly prefer the Japanese style knives with their nicer grinds and thinner edges.
 

Robert Eckerson
Big Chris on Instagram. He hasn't posted here in a while
 

Robert Eckerson
Big Chris on Instagram. He hasn't posted here in a while
I was looking at Robert's postings last night lol I've got a custom fixed blade from him, he does great work. Big Chris too
 
I’ve gotten myself in Robert’s queue for a “modified nakiri”, as he called it. Absolutely cannot wait. That being said, knives don’t NEED to be fancy at all. I’ve been using a vintage Foster Bros 8” chef for about a year, and I friggin LOVE it. Found it at a flea market, made it shaving sharp, and it does what it’s supposed to do. And IMO, looks badass doing it.
 
I’ve gotten myself in Robert’s queue for a “modified nakiri”, as he called it. Absolutely cannot wait. That being said, knives don’t NEED to be fancy at all. I’ve been using a vintage Foster Bros 8” chef for about a year, and I friggin LOVE it. Found it at a flea market, made it shaving sharp, and it does what it’s supposed to do. And IMO, looks badass doing it.
That's kinda where I'm at right now, not necessarily trying to drop a couple hundred on a kitchen knife, (mostly because I live with people that don't understand how to care for any piece of cutlery), but I wouldn't be against it down the road. Right now I just need something to get started and cut up whatever I need to cut up. Mostly fruit/veggie processing and some protein cutting (chicken breast).
 
That's kinda where I'm at right now, not necessarily trying to drop a couple hundred on a kitchen knife, (mostly because I live with people that don't understand how to care for any piece of cutlery), but I wouldn't be against it down the road. Right now I just need something to get started and cut up whatever I need to cut up. Mostly fruit/veggie processing and some protein cutting (chicken breast).
Victorinox. Seems like their fibrox line would suit your needs nicely. Inexpensive but excellent quality knives that are great “users”, and the handles and steel will be forgiving with less than optimal care
 
Good morning and best wishes on your pursuit of kitchen knives.

It looks like you have had a lot of advice on specific knives already, but I’d suggest a slightly different approach, especially since you said you want to avoid buying now only to upgrade later.

I’d suggest that there are basically two key points to consider…okay, make that three.

1. Using your current knives, pay attention to how you like to hold them, and more importantly how you cut with them. If you are more of a chopper, then flatter blade profiles may suit you better. This would tend to take you in the direction of French or Japanese blade designs. If you are more of a rocker, then more rounded, western styles would suit better.
2. Go to a store with a large variety of handle styles and see what handles type you prefer to use. If a knife doesn’t fit well in your hands, you won’t enjoy using it. But a knife that fits well and has the balance that suits your cutting style will be a dream to use.

As a side note here, keep in mind that your cutting style and handle preference may not be the same as other users of the knife. My wife’s hands are considerably smaller than mine (thankfully) and we prefer to use different knives because of that. This means that you may end up with a knife that you like to use and another knife that others prefer…or, you all find a good compromise knife.

3. Once you know how you like to cut and what handle shape feels good in your hand, then go and look at the available knives that exist and choose the one that appeals most to you and best suits your budget.

4. I should have known there would be more than 3. Also think about knife maintenance. Stainless will tend to be more user friendly in terms of what you need to do after use and washing. Carbon steel will generally be able to take a sharper edge and can be tougher while requiring more care, but you can find good examples across the spectrum.

Good luck.
 
2. Go to a store with a large variety of handle styles and see what handles type you prefer to use. If a knife doesn’t fit well in your hands, you won’t enjoy using it. But a knife that fits well and has the balance that suits your cutting style will be a dream to use.
👍A great piece of advice.
 
This would be easier if there was a store near me like that lol
Got it.
That being the case, I would suggest you make a "middle of the road" purchase, which will be safe quality wise, and offer you a reasonably priced starting point to make decisions from about future purchases.
And I would recommend that you start with a western handled, stainless, Japanese Gyotu.
I suggest a Tojiro DP in VG10.
Reasonably priced.
Easy to sharpen.
Will hold an edge.
Has a western style handle, but better balance than a western bladed knife.
 
Thanks for that advice man. And I wasn't trying to be a dick about that by the way I really do wish there were stores local where I could check out some kitchen knives lol I was taking a look at the Victorinox Fibrox and their 8" Chef model seemed like a pretty good entry level 80% knife. I really just plan on doing a lot of vegetable and chicken cutting like I said. No peeling, no bones, no crazy twisting, just a nice quality thin knife for simple slicing/chopping you know? Then down the line I'll expand and get other knives for more specific tasks since I'll have more experience by then. I'll check out what you suggested to though, I'm open to all options
Got it.
That being the case, I would suggest you make a "middle of the road" purchase, which will be safe quality wise, and offer you a reasonably priced starting point to make decisions from about future purchases.
And I would recommend that you start with a western handled, stainless, Japanese Gyotu.
I suggest a Tojiro DP in VG10.
Reasonably priced.
Easy to sharpen.
Will hold an edge.
Has a western style handle, but better balance than a western bladed knife.
 
I second karnaknives' suggestion to get a Tojiro DP (VG10 steel) knife or knife set, with some caveats.

If you have never used before quality kitchen knives, there are two major things you should expect to learn when you upgrade:

1. You have to relearn how to cut with the new knives.
The softer Chinese or German stainless steels you have likely encountered until now dull quickly and you have to exert more force to cut, chop etc.
They are also more forgiving to abuse.
You won't need so much effort to cut with the harder and sharper VG10 blade, and you should avoid slamming the edge into the cutting board.
You will also need a more edge friendly cutting board: avoid bamboo, glass, stone, use wooden, plastic or rubber ones.
Some people say that even teak cutting boards are not good due to the high silica content in the wood.
Maple, cherry, walnut, rubberwood, beech are all OK, the softer "acacia" (actually monkey pod wood, not true acacia) and hinoki (Japanese cypress) are even more edge friendly.
Olive wood might be too hard, but I don't have experience with it, so maybe someone can comment on it is good or not for harder blades.
With the sharper and harder knives your cutting technique will shift from hacking and hard chopping to slicing and finer chopping.

2. All knives will dull with use, the quality blades will do so slower.
You have to learn to sharpen and hone/strop to maintain the sharpness.
Harder steels are easier to sharpen on quality water stones, than on oil stones.
Taz, a member with extensive knowledge and professional sharpening skills can give you excellent advice what stones to get and how to use and care for them.
He gave me some nice advise in another recent thread here. There are other very knowledgeable members too who can help you with excellent advice.
VG10 as treated by Tojiro is not the most difficult steel to sharpen, but not the easiest either.
What might be easy for karnaknives might be somewhat challenging for someone who did not sharpen harder steels before.
Of course once you learn it, it won't be difficult, but don't expect an easy stroll in the park the very first time.
All that said, the Tojiro VG10 is not some super-hard steel, which would require grueling efforts to sharpen, but with quality sharpening and stropping accessories and some modest learning it will reward you with a great edge.

I just recently got my first true Japanese knives, among them 3 Tojiro DP VG10 knives: a 210 mm gyuto, a 180 mm petty and a 120 mm petty.
They are much better than the soft cheap stainless knives I've used until now, and even better than the Victorinox chef knife I got a couple of years ago.
If you are leaning on hard on your knives and prefer to continue to do so, you might want to get the Victorinox rather than the Tojiro.
The Victorinox has a thin blade and is pretty tough, but won't hold its edge so long as the Tojiro. However that might not be a big issue if you are cooking only occasionally.
It will hold an edge for a reasonably long time. Unlike the Tojiro, it responds well to steeling.

Somewhat in between the Victorinox and the Tojiro DP VG10 there is a simple yet excellent knife offered by Chef Knives To go:
The Richmond Artifex II gyuto.
It has a stainless BD1N nitrogen steel blade and G10 bolsterless handle. It has similar hardness to the Tojiro VG10, but it is easier to sharpen and is tougher.
It's edge holding is between that of the Victorinox and the Tojiro steels, closer to the Tojiro one.
It has a simple utilitarian design, with the blade being the main focus. I like it a lot.

I am not a knife or steel expert, but I formed some opinions regarding the edge holding and what it means for me regarding my expectations.
As I understand it (and I might be wrong) and edge can deteriorate due to
- abrasive wear (micro-chipping), my first association would be cardboard or carpet cutting;
- rolling, and
- corrosion.
Cooking rarely involves processing very abrasive ingredients, but increased abrasion will occur when the edge slides into the cutting board.
Rolling is more typical for softer and tougher stainless steel.
Corrosion will affect significantly carbon steel edges if they are not wiped down after cutting, especially if cutting acidic ingredients.
Based on all this for cooking knives I prefer (but not exclusively) either fully stainless knives, or ones with stainless cladding around the carbon steel core.
As a home cook I also do not process tons of ingredients at a time, so my expectations for edge holdings are not extremely high.
My usual cutting involves both slicing and chopping, so I prefer a sharp yet still tough edge and steel, which means a "workhorse" type of knife as opposed to a "laser".
Among the Western knives the Victorinox is thin enough to cut well, yet its softer German steel is very tough and forgiving.
The Richmond Artifex II is even tougher and has a better edge holding.
The Tojiro keeps a good working edge even longer, but it's slightly more delicate, if sharpened at the more acute edges the VG10 can take.
Of course, you can always buy more expensive Japanese knives with ever increasing quality of edge thinness/sharpness, edge holding, fit & finish etc., but from simply functional point of view an average home cook's needs are more than well covered with either one of the above 3 knives.

Finally, I suggest to consider a Chinese vegetable cleaver/chef knife in addition to a European-style chef knife.
You can get a decent quality cheap ones from Asian stores, the Wok Shop or other internet sites. For 20-40 dollars you can get a very usable tool, which will speed up processing vegetables a lot. I like the Kin Lih Taiwan-made slicer (sold as 'Traditional Chinese Kitchen Vegetable Cleaver Knife 7 Inch By TLA' on Amazon), but you can get decent from the Shi Ba Zi or Dengjia brans too.
They come in a variety of thicknesses: the 1.5-2.5 mm ones are vegetable slicers, the 3-4 mm ones are suitable to chop chicken bones too, and the thicker ones are butcher's tools for hacking through bones. Of course, you can always buy more expensive cleavers, but with a cheap one you can figure out if you like them at all in the first place.
 
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OK, something out of center field. Or should that be left? Never was good at cliches.

This is not to argue with any of the seriously valuable advice that you're gotten from people who have lifetimes more expertise than I do.

You might want to consider making your own kitchen knives. Not, perhaps, the actual smithing of the steel (unless you really go to the dark side), but the purchasing of a knife blank, and handling it. You obviously have your choice of handle material, as well as the pinning (I'm partial to mosaic pins, myself). It's a relatively inexpensive option, as you have the option of many suppliers for the knife blanks (TexasKnife, SMKW, JantzSupply, USAKnifeMaker, many others). The wood can also be inexpensive, especially some hard woods that are local (North America). Hickory, white oak, osage orange (my favorite), walnut, unknown-woods-from-pallets, Ipe, hard maple...) all can be good choices, usually without stabilizing.

I've been doing this for years, still have the first one I made, about 30 years ago. Hasn't fallen apart yet.

Gives you a serious sense of accomplishment, as well as possibly a hobby that will benefit friends/relatives who are beneficiaries of your hobby.

If you have the appropriate power tools (belt sander, bandsaw, drill press) it is relatively easy. If not, rasps, a coping saw, hand drill will certainly suffice, taking a bit more time and effort. The hand tools have the advantage of being slower to make mistakes. I remember an acquaintance from these forums whose tagline was "I prefer hand tools, since they operate at the speed of my mind.". I mainly agree with that, though I have a couple of chisels that can out-think me on a bad day.

Enjoy whatever you choose, and it would be interesting to see what you ultimately make/buy.

Regards,
Joe
 
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