Surefire G2 conversion or buy G2_LED

[racegunner]

I have two G2s. I want LED lights.
I am more concerned with runtime and durability than output.
Should I just buy the G2 LED or stick on a Malkoff 80 lumen bulb?
Surefire claims 80 lumen as well, but 12 hours runtime!
I've heard this in an exaggeration... which will run longer on standard 123 batteries?

I also have the same issue with a Surefire E2e....conversion or new light?

Thanks,
Brian

 

[flashlightfreak9]

Well, the LED assembly you can pop in is $50. A new G2L is $69. Do the math.

As far as runtime goes, this picture tells the whole story.

You get 3 hours over 70 lumens, then it drops off and tails out for a total runtime at 12 hours.

An excerpt from Surefire's 2008 catalog:

A WORD ABOUT MEASUREMENTS
If oil companies took the same approach to measuring gasoline
as most flashlight manufacturers take measuring the outputs and
runtimes of their products, you’d get 10 different sized gallons
of gas from 10 different filling stations. In a perfect world, every
flashlight from every manufacturer would be tested and measured
exactly the same way, using the same equipment, and results
would be expressed in the same units of measurement.
Unfortunately, the world is far from perfect. Still, SureFire has
taken great pains to ensure that our measurements are as accurate
and telling as possible. First off, we don’t express output in candlepower
measurements—we use lumens. Candlepower typically
refers to the single brightest spot of a beam, which doesn’t tell you
much about beam quality or the amount of usable light. Consider
a lake that’s 10 feet deep everywhere except for one narrow
cavern where it drops off to 600 feet. The candlepower-equivalent
measurement of that lake would be 600 feet, even though the vast
majority of the lake is only 10 feet deep. A lumen measurement,
on the other hand, is a photometric quantity determined by
measuring the total radiant energy across the light’s spectrum
and then correcting the data for the relative response of the human
eye. It’s a more complicated measurement, but it’s also a more
useful one. Using the same lake analogy, a lumen-equivalent
measurement would tell you how much water was actually
in the lake.
We measure our lights with state-of-the art equipment, using
standardized procedures developed by Dr. Peter Hauk, SureFire’s
principal scientist. We express outputs and runtimes as clearly as
possible, stating them in terms of “Max Output” and “Runtime.”
Max Output is the maximum amount of light a flashlight will
produce running on fresh batteries. Runtime is how long a flashlight
will continue to produce useful levels of light, “useful”
being enough light to illuminate a keyhole, read a map, or
find something inside a pack—right around one lumen. So if
a flashlight’s Max Output is listed as 80 lumens and its Runtime
is 12 hours, that doesn’t mean it will produce 80 lumens of
light for 12 hours. It will initially produce 80 lumens, but output
will eventually level off to a lesser but still substantial amount
and continue to decline as battery power depletes. Exactly how
it drops is expressed in the light’s output/runtime curve.
(see next page)
SureFire wants you to know exactly what you’re getting when
you buy one of our products. And to be aware that there are
other manufacturers out there not quite as forthright about their
output/runtime claims. We’ve done our own independent testing
on competitive products and found there to be substantial
exaggerations. “Exaggerations” being the watered-down word
our lawyers would prefer we use. If you want to know exactly
what to expect from your flashlight, buy a SureFire. Otherwise,
your guess is as good as ours.

I think the LED assembly is worth it. 'Course, I bought mine when they were $40.....

 

[carrot]

Based on price it's worth it to just buy the new one. You can also get cheap aftermarket LED bulbs but I wouldn't trust any of the cheaper ones. Just like with knives, when you skimp on price you get less product.

 

[racegunner]

Thanks for the replies, but I think my real question should have been rather; Does the Malkoff LED conversion outperform (runtime specifically) the Surefire drop-in?
I was considering the M60LL (I think that is the part?) rated at 80 Lumen.

 

[Jason B.]

Thanks for the replies, but I think my real question should have been rather; Does the Malkoff LED conversion outperform (runtime specifically) the Surefire drop-in?
I was considering the M60LL (I think that is the part?) rated at 80 Lumen.

Yes, it outperforms the P60L in runtime, output, tint, heat build up, and light distribution. Malkoff's are the best drop-in's for surefires HANDS DOWN!

 

[Ken C.]

Also keep in mind that the new G2 LED's have an aluminum bezel to prevent melting. replacing the bulb in the G2 with an LED may result in the Nylatron bezel melting.

 

[OwenM]

The G2L has an aluminum bezel because there is no heatsinking for the P60L, and the only thing it has for heat transfer is the reflector.
Malkoffs are well sinked on their own. I don't know how the M60LL compares to the P60L, and will refer to the M60 models in their various configurations in general for most of this. The regulation on the M60 is supposed to be better, and the quoted runtimes more accurate.
The beams are very different. The P60L has a bright, clearly delineated hotspot, and wide, even spill. The Malkoff uses an optic, and will have a round(not necessarily even) hotspot that fades out at the sides. On a wall, the P60L will look better, but in use, you'll get better illumination from the Malkoff, IMO.
The P60L's beam was brighter and the spot tighter than I would have thought from reading about it. I've had two P60Ls pass through my hands recently, but I sold them both, as I'm hooked on the Malkoff W(arm) drop-ins. They aren't warm in the same sense as the old yellower Luxeon tints, but give very accurate color rendition. It's hard to use anything else once you've used them.
Unless you really need throw, check out the flood versions. They're fantastic for close use.
Right now I have the M60W, M60WF, M60WL, and M60WLF(had and sold the "normally tinted" M30F, too).
The M60WL is in a plain black G2(the L and LL versions have been deemed safe for use in the all-Nitrolon G2 by the maker-there is no warm LL, btw). Just put that combo together, and will use it at work.
The M60WLF or M60W with diffuser are almost all I've used since getting them.
I'm giving the M60WF in a 6P to my best friend that's a cop because it's brighter than I really need, and should be perfect for vehicle stops and indoor use. Evenly and brightly lights up an entire hallway, or most of a large bedroom.

You can get a P60L on the Candlepowerforums Marketplace for ~$30 if you decide to go that route. That seems to be the going rate, and it's what I sold both of mine for. For $33 more with shipping, you can have a Malkoff...

btw, the stated runtimes for the Malkoffs are the runtime in regulation. With 123s, after dropping out of regulation, they will run at continually lowering output until the cells are depleted, like the P60L.

 

[flashlightfreak9]

Also keep in mind that the new G2 LED's have an aluminum bezel to prevent melting. replacing the bulb in the G2 with an LED may result in the Nylatron bezel melting.

No, the Nitrolon will not melt. The LED puts off ZERO heat. I'd be more worried about the Nitrolon melting with an incandescent in it, but that's not what this topic is about.

If you think the Malkoffs will suit you better, then get them.

I'll keep on lovin' my Surefire!

 

[BushcraftBrainTrust]

No, the Nitrolon will not melt. The LED puts off ZERO heat. I'd be more worried about the Nitrolon melting with an incandescent in it, but that's not what this topic is about.

If you think the Malkoffs will suit you better, then get them.

I'll keep on lovin' my Surefire!

The LED definitely does put off heat. That is why the G2 LED comes with an aluminum bezel and the G2 doesn't. I have a G3 LED and 6P Defender with a Malkoff M60 drop-in, and they both get warm with extended run times. I think the Nitrolon would act as an insulator, keeping the heat in, and shortening the LED life.

 

[OwenM]

The LED puts off ZERO heat.

Of course it does. Anything that uses electrical current produces heat. The heat comes from the emitter, and the emitter is thermally bonded to a base or "heatsink" that is usually either part of, threaded to, or bonded to, the body for heat transfer. In the P60L, none of those things are true. The base is bonded to the metal reflector as its method of transferring heat, so the heat goes forward like an incandescent instead of backwards like in most LED lights. The front of the reflector pushes against a lip at the front of the bezel that also holds the lens in place(along with a retaining ring in front of the lens). In a metal head, that lets the heat go to the bezel, which is why SF put Al bezels on the LED version of the G2-so it can act as a heat sink. With the Nitrolon bezel there was nowhere for the heat to go, which is why a runtime graph of the P60L in a all-Nitrolon G2 doesn't look like that of one in a 6P. Output drops as it heats up. The LED circuitry incorporates a heat sensor that lowers the output to keep the heat manageable for the longevity of the emitter, which heat will damage, otherwise.

 

[flashlightfreak9]

Well, I'll say this then: I have not experienced any heat from the LED. Just my experience.

Cheers.

 

[OwenM]

That's a bad thing, at least if you're running the light for a while. You want the light to get warm. The heat transferring from the emitter to the head or body of the light means it's getting away from the LED. Otherwise you're just cooking it in its own heat.