Surface Grinder

J

jimbowie7

Joined
Mar 13, 2005
Messages
90
Does anyone know who makes a really small benchtop surface grinder? I'm not looking for a monster like the ones on ebay, just something compact and fits on a bench.

Dan Farr has one on his website:

http://www.farrknives.com

It's in the "Shop Tour" section, if you scroll through the pictures -it looks pretty compact and fits on a bench.

Any info on who the manufacturer is or if you know of another company that makes something similar in size, would be greatly appreciated! Thanks! :p
 
Hey Jim Bowie, The unit you're looking at is sold by J&L indutrial supply ( and I'm sure others as well ). www.jlindustrial.com They call it a 6" x 12" Bench Type Surface Grinder . Order # IGS-10000C ( $2,340.00 ) optional stand order #IGS-10001M ( $295.57 ) ; and IMHO a must have optional magnetic chuck 6" x 12" order # IMG-00612C ( $313.76 ) . As you probably already know , you might find a better , more rigid , used unit on ebay for much less. I would be interested in hearing how Dan Farr likes the one he has.If you decide to contact him in regards to the performance please post your findings.I hope this helped. Good luck shopping.
 
Jim, it looks like he has a Harbor Fright surface grinder, or the equivalent. Like the many different brand names of the mini-mills and 4x6 bandsaws out there, this style of surface grinder also comes in under several brands. I have seen Enco, MSC, KBC, and others carry it, but have never seen it cheaper than at HF.
 
If your looking for an import brand, 6x12", take a listen to this..... about 7 years ago I decide I needed a surface grinder. After about 5 months worth of research, I finally got in contact with a gentleman who imports these machines. After convincing him that I had no intentions of importing surface grinders, he opened up and gave me the following information:
All 6x12 import surface grinders that come into the US are made, in two factories, by the same compay. The grinders arrive via ship in crates of 36 machines. His people unload the crates, then break them open in the warehouse. However many machines go to J&L, Jet, etc are counted out and taken to different parts of the warehouse where they are painted and the compay logos applied. Then they are recrated and shipped to that particualr compay. The machines going to HF are never unpacked, only forwarded to the company. What does that mean? It means you can pay several hunderd dollars more for a paint job and some stickers, or you can get the exact same machine from HF for around $1,000! I've seen several HF catalogs within the past few months where the offer free shipping on that surface grinder too. The last time I looked, both J&L, and Jet (I'm not sure Jet is around anymore) 6x12 surface grinders were in the neiborhood of $2,300-$2,400 each, I consider that a lot to pay for paint and logos.
I set my machine up to run 2 X72 belts, and have had no complaints about the machine.
One individual I know, who also has an HF surface grinder told me that the windings in his motor fried at about the two year point, but he also said that he had the motor rewound at a local motor repair shop ....and now it's like a whole different machine (in a good way).
Something I forgot to mention is the chuck. Don't waste your money on the cheesy one that HF offers. Get a good, fine pole mag-chuck. I had the el-cheapo one and wound up tearing the guard off my machine when the mag-chuck wouldn't hold a small pices I was trying to surface grind. Good chucks are expensive..... about half the price of the machine. I found a good used on on Ebay for only a couple hundred dollars.
 
I have this exact grinder, bought it for $999.00 from Harbour Freight. I took the rock off, and added a system of pullys that accept the standard 2 x 72 belts. It works flawlessly!!! The idea and photos for the transition from rock to belt came from out friend Mr. Caffrey :thumbup:
 
I have to agree with Ed about HF Stuff & the surface grinder technical overview.When it comes to a surface grinder I would much rather have a good old harig or Boyer-shultz?? used machine than the one at J&L or HF you are asking about. The one in the J&L Cat does have a few differences than the one at HF, for instance the motor at J&L is listed as 3/4 hp 220V 1 phase . The HF unit is listed as 3/4 hp 110V 1 phase. Graduations on the J&L machine are listed at .0005 increments and at HF it is listed as .001 graduations.The biggest difference is , like higgy said , PRICE . Machine at HF $999.99 ; table 229.99 ; & mag chuck $99.99. Table travel dimentions are a little different on each of the 2 units also as are the listed weights which could be due to , like Ed said , how it is packaged.Again GOOD LUCK
 
I've been interested in the 2x72 change for some time -- any pics on how it is done? I have a $600 machine that I've been thinking about lately.
 
Couple of questions for you surface grinder owning guys...

1) Does the HF model with the 2x72 conversion hold tolerances well enough for folder work? I assume it does, but if you don't ask...

2) Have any of you guys automated the x- y- axes on your surface grinders?

I'm thinking of getting one sometime soon, and was just wondering about those two points... Thanks!

:)

-Darren
 
Darren Ellis said:
Couple of questions for you surface grinder owning guys...

1) Does the HF model with the 2x72 conversion hold tolerances well enough for folder work? I assume it does, but if you don't ask...

2) Have any of you guys automated the x- y- axes on your surface grinders?

I'm thinking of getting one sometime soon, and was just wondering about those two points... Thanks!

:)

-Darren
Click to expand...

Darren, hopefully Ed Caffrey will chime in again here. I do not make folders, but seem to recall that Ed had no problem using the 2" x 72" attachment for his. It was Ed that supplied me with photographs of his setup so I could build my own. The key is to true the wheel to the chuck to make sure they are parallel.

My grinder is manual, only.
 
Fox said:
Darren, hopefully Ed Caffrey will chime in again here. I do not make folders, but seem to recall that Ed had no problem using the 2" x 72" attachment for his. It was Ed that supplied me with photographs of his setup so I could build my own. The key is to true the wheel to the chuck to make sure they are parallel.

My grinder is manual, only.
Click to expand...


Cool, thanks for the info. Hopefully Ed will chime in, or someone else in the know. Could I also get a copy of those pictures?

...and if anyone else has automated the x- y- axes on a surface grinder I'd love to hear about it. Surface grinding is one of those boring tedious tasks to me and I'd ideally want to automate it if at all possible (or rather, within budget!)

:)

-Darren
 
Darren, pics and email inbound.

ETA: Darren, one of the beauties of the 2" x 72" conversion is that surface grinding can be very, very fast, without any automation. It takes me no time at all to go from 36 grit up to 400 grit because of the surface area of the wheels and belts.
 
John L said:
May I also have the plans for conversion. thanks very much. John Lloyd
Click to expand...

John, you will need to supply an email address. Your profile does not allow for emails to be sent you.

BTW - If someone wants to host the photos, I would be happy to send them. I have the ones that Ed Caffrey sent me and the ones I took of my own rig. I also have a copy of Bertie Reitveld's plans and one miscellaneous picture of a larger grinder converted to 2" x 72"
 
I want to add that in order to get the most accurate results, you should run your belt unit "corner to corner."

Meaning, don't just run over the material being ground in one pass. Run over the material with about 1/4" of the wheel, and then progress that way until you've covered the whole piece.

This will give much better results.

Many folks baulk at converting a machine to belts, but my old Grand Rapids will get material flat within 0.0001's if I really watch it, but easily within +/-0.003" over something like a damascus billet, which is pretty damn flat.

I'm not really sure how anyone can possibley maintain getting flatness within tenths when they go from the machine to hand-sanding though. I go from my s.g. with a Norax 320X to hand-sanding, and there's always a tiny bit of "rocking" that goes along with the hand-sanding.

Just some thoughts :)
 
I'm not a grinding expert, but I did work in a grinding room for a while when I was younger. A surface grinder used properly is the most precision machine in the shop. Nick, please don't take offense here as I love your work, but +/- .003 is about where you should start with a surface grinder, not finish up. If those tolerances are what you need, you could save a lot of time by sending your steel out and having it blanchard ground. Especially if you're using a hand crank machine (sloooowww).

There's lots of stuff that is important in a SG. The ways are first, but almost as important is the drive system for moving the table on the x axis. V ways are better than flat ways and ball bearing ways are better still. Many cheaper SGs use a rack & pinion gear setup to move the table. There are two problems with this. The first is that with a rack & pinion drive, it's really hard to get a consistant feed rate, so it's hard to get a consistant thickness. The second problem is that on a rack & pinion drive, you can actually see the rack's tooth pattern in the workpiece. A better option is is a cable drive system. You still hav ethe feed rate problem, but the rack teeth printing through to the workpiece issue goes away. The best option is hydraulic feed as it's the smoothest and generally also means that you get power feed on at least one axis.

I'm not a fan of the belt conversion. It might work fine for some guys, but one of the things that help you hold tight tolerances on an SG is the ability to easily dress and re-true the wheel to ensure a clean and predictable cutting surface on the abrasive. With a soft rubber wheel and a belt, you can certainly refresh the abrasive easily enough, but there's no provision for re-trueing the wheel and the belts are not a consistant thickness so a belt change changes your setup. Another issues is that on a belt grinder, you start with a coarse belt and move to a finer belt. On a surface grinder the theory is that you pick a wheel that it is suited to the material and surface finish you desire and then pick the appropriate feed rates. It's a different paradigm.

I have a small 6"x12" all manual Yuasa machine that is ok for a starter SG, but when I migrate to making folders, I'm going to be looking for a used hydraulic drive machine. I've already got my eye open and if I find one locally for a fair price, my little Yuasa will be available for well under teh $1K that HF wants for theirs.
 
No offense taken- BUT--- I said a damascus billet... not a knife blade. If you know someone who sells 12-15" billets ground finer than to a few thousandths, they are nuts.

I met a local tool room grinder that had run a room with 4 surface grinders full time for over 30 years. He can get nearly a mirror finish on a piece of steel with a stone, but you still have to take the material from the surface grinder to hand-sanding. He said the precision he could attain with the machine would be "lost" once the piece is hand-sanded. So I've yet to find someone that can tell me why they need to grind a knife blade to tenths.

Theory is one thing, but applying it is altogether different. :)
 
Hey guys, this is all *great* information! Thanks! Nick, your points are well received about overlapping passes with the belt conversion system and Fox your point about the speed particularly intrigues me.

John, Your suggestions about belt conversions and auto-feed are great as well, thank you very much for your input too! In what neighborhood does a SG with hydraulic auto-feed run $-wise?

I've been thinking about the HF SG for a while and trying to do a CNC retrofit on the x- y- axes, and am hoping to find someone who has actually done something like this...to save time in planning it all out! :) ...but now I may want to look into something that is already set up for this...but how much do they run?

:)

-Darren

P.S. Nick, there's a "what can you use a SG for?" thread over on TKN that someone else has started. I, for one, would love to see you participate in that thread...I understand you get a lot of use out of yours and I'd love to find other ways to justify the expense other than what I am thinking of using it for (damascus billets, folder parts, flats/ricasso on blades)...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top