Surgical Steel?

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Sorry if this is a stupid question, but what is surgical steel? Is it basically a term for "crap" or a general term for junk metals like 440a, etc? When I was a kid I used to buy a lot of those big Crocodile Dundee type knives by companies like United Cutlery and they commonly featured surgical steel.
 
From my experience, when a company lists the steel as "Surgical Steel", it is usually a sign of a cheapo steel.
 
Actually no Surgical Steel is very good stuff. If it is properly done. It hold and edge and it does not rust. There is a reason true surgical steel is very pricy. It was developed by the medical comunity some years ago and it was one of the first true stainless that could hold an edge. True that by todays standards Surgical steel is most likely not the cats meow if you want to pin it against S30V but it can hold it own in the proper playing field.

Do not forget that Surgical Steel must be reaction free to all the blood and bodily fluids. It must also not react to any solvents it could be exposed to for wound cleaning or disenfection. So Surgical Steel is good stuff just depends on what you want to do with it.
 
I repeat my first post. What we normally see advertised as "Surgical Steel" is the cheapest stainless junk available, like 420J2. When a knife company lists "Surgical Steel", and not the actual steel type, it usually means they are using the cheapo stuff. Kinda like knife companies that list their steel only as 440 stainless. You can bet it is more likely to be 440A than 440C.
 
Call up any steel manufacturer and try to place an order for 100 tonnes of surgical stainless steel. After the laughing dies down, they'll tell you that there is no steel named Surgical Stainless Steel. It is a marketing gimic that many of us have fallen for. Hey, if surgeons use it, it must be super good at cutting eh! Hmm, my Frost cutlery bowie sure isn't...

I think that some knives with surgical stainless steel blades may not be all that bad though, if for example the steel actually is 440A.
 
Have you ever wondered, "What is Salsbury Steak?" I've got a chart that shows where each cut of beef comes from, where T-Bone steaks come from on the cow, what part the rib roast is, etc. But I can't find the Salsbury on it. The anwer is that Salsbury Steak is bits and pieces of leftover meat all ground up together and pressed into a sort of patty shape. It's cheap because those bits and scraps would have been thrown away otherwise. Of course, the quality of it is generally not so good and sometimes quite poor.

Generally speaking, "Surgical stainless steel" is whatever stainless steel they have extra of. Very often, it's the scraps of many different types of stainless steel left over from making things that need to be a specific alloy all put into one big pot and melted down together. If you want to order it, you'd ask your supplier for "stainless pot steel." "Pot steel" is a non-specific mixture of steel scraps and bits melted together. It's a classic pre-consumer recycled material. It's a popular material because it's cheap. It's used for a lot of applications where you need steel, but don't need the special characteristics of a specific alloy. If you're a bit careful about what you throw into the pot and only take stainless alloys, you get a slightly better grade product, "stainless pot steel."

Stainless pot steel, a.k.a. surgical stainless steel, is good for applications that need a stainless steel but don't need the exact traits of a specific specialty alloy. A good example of that is many surgical impliments.

Surgical Stainless Steel is the Salsbury steak of the steel industry.

Neither pot steel nor stainless pot steel are good for knife blades.

One reason knife manufacturers like to use generic terms like "stainless steel" or "surgical steel" is that it frees them from having to use a specific alloy. If your tooling is all set up to stamp "440C" on the blades and your boxes are all printed with "440C" and you've run a big ad campaign, printed catalogs, etc. listing 440C, then you're locked in. If the price of 440C rises unexpectedly, you just have to eat it. And if your steel supplier calls up and says, "We've got a special today on 420HC," you can't take advantage of it. You've got to have 440C. But, if you just stamp your blades "Surgical Steel" and promote that in all your ads etc., then you can use whatever steel is cheap and available and you're free to change alloys from production run to production run as the steel market changes.
 
Ok Gang,

I have a similiar question, ... I been looking at buying a Case trapper ot stockman for one of my EDC's ......... I been putting it off for awhile now cause it says the blade is made out of Surgical steel..
So, how good is a Case knife...
I am afraid it will be 440A... which I think is too soft a blade. I have had 440a before, it sharpens fast and dulls fast.
Sometimes I think I should by a carbon steel blade but I dont like the " staining" and the extra care I would have to give it.
So what is the opinion on CAse ???
Jack
 
I'm sure I'm not the only person who will give this opinion, but Case's stainless steel is barely adequate. It takes a decent edge, but won't hold it worth a damn. It is only used, because it is cheap for Case to purchase and easy on their machines to stamp and grind and lets their collectors keep their collectables in pristine shape.
 
Case stainless works for hundreds (Edited to Add: per danbo's next comment, make that thousands of users over the past several decades) of satisfied users. It's not premium stainless, but many of their knives run at $45 or less. It will dull easier than the high performance stainless steels, but it won't rust very easily. If you want a pearl handled knife for gentleman's use, the case stainless will remain shiny and nice plus cut anything you need. If you need a texas toothpick to clean fish, case stainless may need to be sharpened after use, but it won't rust to pieces in your fishing kit.

If you like Case but want a better steel, buy one in their chrome vanadium steel. About 80% of the yellow handled delrin models are chrome vanadium. This steel will rust and needs a little bit of oil to keep it clean.
 
I like the message from your first sentence, Brownshoe. It works for Hundreds of satisfied users. Hundreds, out of what has to be Billions sold.
 
Originally posted by Danbo
I like the message from your first sentence, Brownshoe. It works for Hundreds of satisfied users. Hundreds, out of what has to be Billions sold.

Sounds like a whole lot of unsatisfied users to me then! Hehe. My Grandfather collected Case knives. They were nice to look at, but I don't think he ever did anything with them except maybe open his mail, or clean his finger nails. I'm pretty sure he never tried to sharpen them, and most were just for display.

How about the steel in Victorinox Swiss Amry knives? Mine just says "Stainless Rostfrei" Is that Swedish for "Surgical Steel"?! :)
 
Rostfrei is German. It literally means "Rust Free" which is their way of saying Stainless Steel. So, "Stainless Rostfrei" is sort of redundant. Rostfrei is a generic term that does not call out a specific alloy.
 
If you want a stockman or trapper but don´t like Case steel, you may look at Queen traditional pocket knives in D2.

I only have one Case, it´s stainless and I like my Schrades in 440A and my Bucks in 420HC better, I feel 440A and 420HC are fine, I have knives in better, more modern steels and also non-stainless, yes they stay sharp longer, but cost more or rust more easily, 440A, 420HC, AUS6, etc. do have their place.
 
Now, the steel used in the Victorinox knives is a different situation altogether. No, it's not a super high tech, big dollar powder stainless. I think it is 440A. The difference is, the Victorinox blades are flat ground so thin, you can actually cut with them long after they are no longer shaving sharp. And, they sharpen quite easily.
 
Gotta love the "Tru-Sharp sugical steel " moniker Case has pinned on that scrap metal they use to make their knife blades. (Maybe if you needed to perform surgery on a banana :) )
 
It's all in the temper and it is all in the purpose.

We all know that there is no such thing as the perfect steel. One must make the compromise. Surgical steel is used for surgery because of it's lower carbon content and good nutral reaction properties.

Oh course it is not S30V or M2 it will not cut for ever and it will not be the best thing out there. Like we have said before it is all about what will you do with it. Bush wacking get something else, nutral blade reaction qualitites get the stuff.

Oh and by the way my Kershaw Leek has 440A for the blade and it is very sharp. Tempering and heath treatment make all the difference in the world.
 
Originally posted by Gollnick
Rostfrei is German. It literally means "Rust Free" which is their way of saying Stainless Steel. So, "Stainless Rostfrei" is sort of redundant. Rostfrei is a generic term that does not call out a specific alloy.

While it appears to be redundant, I think Victorinox is just labeling their steel for both audiences; the english speaking people read Stainless are happy, and the German speaking people read Rostfrei and are happy.
 
Originally posted by Gollnick
Have you ever wondered, "What is Salsbury Steak?" I've got a chart that shows where each cut of beef comes from, where T-Bone steaks come from on the cow, what part the rib roast is, etc. But I can't find the Salsbury on it. The anwer is that Salsbury Steak is bits and pieces of leftover meat all ground up together and pressed into a sort of patty shape. It's cheap because those bits and scraps would have been thrown away otherwise. Of course, the quality of it is generally not so good and sometimes quite poor.


Salisbury steak is a recipe not a cut, It is ground beef with onions and peppers made into pattys and cooked in gravy. Next you're going to tell us you can't find the Scallopini on the veal chart.

Drew
 
Originally posted by WadeF
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but what is surgical steel? Is it basically a term for "crap" or a general term for junk metals like 440a, etc? When I was a kid I used to buy a lot of those big Crocodile Dundee type knives by companies like United Cutlery and they commonly featured surgical steel.

The problem with the term "surgical stainless" is that can be any stainless the maker wants to make knives out of.

And it can change if they want to.

many premium manufacturers are as guilty of this as cheap ones.

Case sells "True Sharp" stainless. What is it? If they are using aus6 and switch to 420hc how will you know?
Schrade sells Schrade+ stainless, Most think it is 440a but if they went to a cheaper steel tomorrow you wouldn't know.
Cold seel sells Carbon V some think it is 6150 but if they changed to 1080 tomorrow they could still call it carbon V

Drew
 
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