Survive! Knives Forum Closed - What Changed?

[Casinostocks]

Oh KELAMA, you broke my heart homie. We're only like what, 10 minutes away from each other and I was going to come to Ponto Beach to watch you surf. Sniff!

BTW, Meridian ID is down south in the Valley. Perhaps your friend has a 4000+ acre ranch there, in case you really wanted to visit the current Survive!

Just a heads up, lil buddy.

 

[trevitrace]

^ I'll actually be heading up to North Central Idaho either at the end of this month, or the beginning of September.
My best friend has a majestic 2000+ acre cattle ranch perched right above the South fork of the Clearwater River. Some of the best world class hunting/fishing/river kayaking/rafting on Planet Earth as well as being some of the most beautiful rugged high country I've been fortunate to spend a few years living around.



^ This has to be thee most enlightening, factual comment I've ever had the enjoyment of reading here in the GBU.
This person you speak of, has to be one of the most nauseating commenter's, presently posting on this forum. He kind of reminds me of another commentator, one who used to love listening to himself spew his long winded diatribes, on MNF...Howard Cosell.
Thanks to the ignore feature, I wouldn't have even known (without reading your comment), that he was posting here, although I'm not surprised. There isn't a doubt in my mind, that he has ulterior motives for being involved here.



^ Word!

Funny!

 

[KELAMA]

Stop saying- "They're the best knife at their price point". They are unavailable at that price point and they were never readily available at any price point.

No one will know What the actual cost of the knives was until they are all made and shipped or Survive! folds.

Personally- The longer this goes on the less likely they'll be able to fulfill their obligations.

Excellent perspective!

Not really. I just don't find it worth the effort to read all your big worded blather when your not the problem, It's survive that will feel the impact not you so I don't actually care what you think. As I said I find your position switch entertaining and convenient, as in your an amusement, nothing more and it will be the last time I respond to your long winded tripe.

I sure wish I could buy you a beer right now, SS! It's been a long, hot, hard week of work here in SoCal...

just got home to I nice cold IPA...& these posts of yours capped off a perfect, productive week. Thanks for the big laugh, brother!

 

[Casinostocks]

^ hey! What about that beer, grub and "Obama" fries at some joint you had named in Carlsbad, which you had promised me when you had invited me to meet up with so that you could see my then owned GSOs, like 5.1 / 4.7 / 10 plus some of the Carothers??? While I'm at it, you seem to owe lots of folks on here some crisp $100 bills.

Apologies to the regulars for the OT, but this guy is truly a "special" one

 

[Foghorn Leghorn Fan]

A thread where both Survive! and Kelama are being taken to task, the beauty of this is beyond words.

 

[bhyde]

KELAMA @Skystorm shinyedges @grogimus

Remember that rule where we discuss the topic and not each other? Heed the rule..

KELAMA - Your posts were nothing more than the praising of bad behavior in the previous sentence.
Cut the shit and knock it off. Stick to the topic and not each other..party favors to follow to those that don't heed the rule.

 

[Thomas Linton]

Thomas, I’m fairly confident that these guys have misinterpreted quite a number of laws.

Not "interpreting," although I see your point. The FTC made the rule by delegated authority from Congress. Their words, for better or worse, are the law.

Did S!K automatically refund all the money on all the late orders within thirty days or less except where the customer agreed to waive his right to such a refund?

As a three-time customer, I know they did not.

 

[ncrockclimb]

... Ignorance turns to negligence turns into a scam over years. ...

That is the most concise and accurate summary I have seen.

 

[Thomas Linton]

"By law, you must have a reasonable basis for stating that a product can be shipped within a certain time. If your advertising doesn't clearly and prominently state the shipment period, you must have a reasonable basis for believing that you can ship within 30 days.

If you can't ship within the promised time (or within 30 days if you made no promise), you must notify the customer of the delay, provide a revised shipment date and explain his right to cancel and get a full and prompt refund.

For definite delays of up to 30 days, you may treat the customer's silence as agreeing to the delay. But for longer or indefinite delays - and second and subsequent delays - you must get the customer's written, electronic or verbal consent to the delay. If the customer doesn't give you his okay, you must promptly refund all the money the customer paid you without being asked by the customer.

Finally, you have the right to cancel orders that you can't fill in a timely manner, but you must promptly notify the customer of your decision and make a prompt refund."

Federal Trade Commission. 08/11/2018

 

[shinyedges]

KELAMA @Skystorm shinyedges @grogimus

Remember that rule where we discuss the topic and not each other? Heed the rule..

KELAMA - Your posts were nothing more than the praising of bad behavior in the previous sentence.
Cut the shit and knock it off. Stick to the topic and not each other..party favors to follow to those that don't heed the rule.

I apologize, I should know better

 

[stonesell]

Not "interpreting," although I see your point. The FTC made the rule by delegated authority from Congress. Their words, for better or worse, are the law.

Did S!K automatically refund all the money on all the late orders within thirty days of less except where the customer agreed to waive the formerly promised delivery date?

As a three-time customer, I know they did not.

I like your knowledge of the law, and pertinent helpful postings; it gives us some logic to follow.
My take on those two is not based solely on logic.
I see them as “confidence operators”, they can get away with things that most people could not, and then actually turn it around so that people like and support them, because they look like the victims.
They just make up their own laws, and use their personalities and people control skills, to cover their tracks.

 

[brute steel]

I Dm'd Millit in IG. He's frustrated that he's name is attached with the failures of this company. However, he will help Guy out until all the orders the fulfilled, and wants to part of it after. He's looking at 12 mos. from now.

This is clearly a writing on the wall nearing the end S!K

 

[ncrockclimb]

Without a screenshot of the conversation (and Millit consenting to you posting it here), your comments are very unbelievable.

 

[ndmiller]

"By law, you must have a reasonable basis for stating that a product can be shipped within a certain time. If your advertising doesn't clearly and prominently state the shipment period, you must have a reasonable basis for believing that you can ship within 30 days.

If you can't ship within the promised time (or within 30 days if you made no promise), you must notify the customer of the delay, provide a revised shipment date and explain his right to cancel and get a full and prompt refund.

For definite delays of up to 30 days, you may treat the customer's silence as agreeing to the delay. But for longer or indefinite delays - and second and subsequent delays - you must get the customer's written, electronic or verbal consent to the delay. If the customer doesn't give you his okay, you must promptly refund all the money the customer paid you without being asked by the customer.

Finally, you have the right to cancel orders that you can't fill in a timely manner, but you must promptly notify the customer of your decision and make a prompt refund."

Federal Trade Commission. 08/11/2018

Out of curiosity has anyone file a complaint with the FTC? I'll be honest, not real versed in consumer protection law except for Lemon with vehicles.

While the law is nice to know, with/without that knowledge of FTC protection, giving Survive or any company money for years without a delivered product is not responsible consumer behavior. People have to take some responsibility with their money when giving it out for a product not delivered. I've joined some bad kickstarters/indigogo's but even they weren't years late and I asked for a refund after 90 days past due. I bet some would have been angry to all get announced refunds after Survives relatively "indefinite delays", not much would have pleased the angry mob after more than a year of waiting. I generally think some wanted their knives and still do which is why Survive has any outstanding orders at all. I also think some of the anger about Survive is their unwillingness to listen to the "expert" internet advice/solutions given by members here over the past few years.

I Dm'd Millit in IG. He's frustrated that he's name is attached with the failures of this company. However, he will help Guy out until all the orders the fulfilled, and wants to part of it after. He's looking at 12 mos. from now.

This is clearly a writing on the wall nearing the end S!K

Personally I was guessing double that (~2 years), although 12 months of backlog, just shy of a year of stopping taking orders isn't chump change demand (~500-1000 knives?) I do hope when the backlog is over there is still an operating version of Survive!. If there is, obviously I wouldn't buy knives not ready for immediate ship.

 

[shinyedges]

Out of curiosity has anyone file a complaint with the FTC? I'll be honest, not real versed in consumer protection law except for Lemon with vehicles.

While the law is nice to know, with/without that knowledge of FTC protection, giving Survive or any company money for years without a delivered product is not responsible consumer behavior. People have to take some responsibility with their money when giving it out for a product not delivered. I've joined some bad kickstarters/indigogo's but even they weren't years late and I asked for a refund after 90 days past due. I bet some would have been angry to all get announced refunds after Survives relatively "indefinite delays", not much would have pleased the angry mob after more than a year of waiting. I generally think some wanted their knives and still do which is why Survive has any outstanding orders at all. I also think some of the anger about Survive is their unwillingness to listen to the "expert" internet advice/solutions given by members here over the past few years.



Personally I was guessing double that (~2 years), although 12 months of backlog, just shy of a year of stopping taking orders isn't chump change demand (~500-1000 knives?) I do hope when the backlog is over there is still an operating version of Survive!. If there is, obviously I wouldn't buy knives not ready for immediate ship.

Survive is history, here. Booted. Shown the door whether you like it or not. Just thought I'd let you know

 

[Casinostocks]

Survive is history, here. Booted. Shown the door whether you like it or not. Just thought I'd let you know

Their subforum has been archived, banished, booted, history or whatever term you, me, others want to use. However, the name brand is not history yet so respectfully speaking (I mean it sincerely as I've decided to set aside this BS and nonsensical beef with you and craytab) what is the point of repeating what you keep repeating? Honestly it doesn't serve any purpose if meant to dampen dissenting opinion, but that's just my opinion.

Survive! as a brand is not completely history as long as their products get bought / sold / traded on the Exchanges in here and as long as people have a chance to come in the GB&U to report back. The ultimate decision about making them totally history on this Site and to purge any mention of them beyond is for the Site Owner to decree them completely DOA and to direct the Supers to close down any related threads, an event which I do not see forthcoming any time soon. I think that it's a great thing that people cam discuss their opinions whether for / against controversial Cos such as Survive! / BRKT / Strider and handful of others which gained notoriety. It speaks volumes about how this Site is being operated not impeding useful discussion of some knifemakers and their products, albeit ugly ones on either or both fronts.

 

[shinyedges]

Their subforum has been archived, banished, booted, history or whatever term you, me, others want to use. However, the name brand is not history yet so respectfully speaking (I mean it sincerely as I've decided to set aside this BS and nonsensical beef with you and craytab) what is the point of repeating what you keep repeating? Honestly it doesn't serve any purpose if meant to dampen dissenting opinion, but that's just my opinion.

Survive! as a brand is not completely history as long as their products get bought / sold / traded on the Exchanges in here and as long as people have a chance to come in the GB&U to report back. The ultimate decision about making them totally history on this Site and to purge any mention of them beyond is for the Site Owner to decree them completely DOA and to direct the Supers to close down any related threads, an event which I do not see forthcoming any time soon. I think that it's a great thing that people cam discuss their opinions whether for / against controversial Cos such as Survive! / BRKT / Strider and handful of others which gained notoriety. It speaks volumes about how this Site is being operated not impeding useful discussion of some knifemakers and their products, albeit ugly ones on either or both fronts.

Whatever, enjoy their archives .

 

[Casinostocks]

Eh, the victory lap joy subsides at some point too

 

[danbot]

Concerning that FTC ruling, sort of wonder if that was the reasoning they came out with the $25 down payment option when they came out with their SK line, I believe (can't quite remember w/o doing some research) they even slipped some sort of wording that if you decide to forego the order they can keep the money. Might have some of that twisted but I believe they had some wording in that nature.

No offence intended here, but I want to use your post because it's a perfect example of why the Survive! Forum had to go.
You state that they "came out with" the SK line. All they did was announce a new knife line (as it turns out) a year before it's even (maybe) in the pipeline, But people talk about it like it's a reality. They don't exist!
They are too good at fooling people.
Had to go.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

Out of curiosity has anyone file a complaint with the FTC? I'll be honest, not real versed in consumer protection law except for Lemon with vehicles.

While the law is nice to know, with/without that knowledge of FTC protection, giving Survive or any company money for years without a delivered product is not responsible consumer behavior. People have to take some responsibility with their money when giving it out for a product not delivered. I've joined some bad kickstarters/indigogo's but even they weren't years late and I asked for a refund after 90 days past due. I bet some would have been angry to all get announced refunds after Survives relatively "indefinite delays", not much would have pleased the angry mob after more than a year of waiting. I generally think some wanted their knives and still do which is why Survive has any outstanding orders at all. I also think some of the anger about Survive is their unwillingness to listen to the "expert" internet advice/solutions given by members here over the past few years.



Personally I was guessing double that (~2 years), although 12 months of backlog, just shy of a year of stopping taking orders isn't chump change demand (~500-1000 knives?) I do hope when the backlog is over there is still an operating version of Survive!. If there is, obviously I wouldn't buy knives not ready for immediate ship.

I'm honestly not entirely sure where you're going with this. No matter what degree of responsibility you think consumers bear, it doesn't absolve Survive of acting illegally and unethically.

There's also the simple fact that many of those customers who have suffered the most began this ordeal before Survive had shown any particular evidence of dealing in bad faith. Maybe they all should have requested refunds quickly after deadlines came and went, but people in general are very susceptible to the sunk costs fallacy something which, whether intentionally or unintentionally, the situation with Survive has preyed on.