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Survive! Knives Forum Closed - What Changed?

Discussion in 'FEEDBACK: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly!' started by ncrockclimb, Aug 4, 2018.

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  1. SURVIVE! Ellie

    SURVIVE! Ellie

    Apr 21, 2014
    As I've mentioned before, we answer every email and every phone call from folks who contact us. That is the best way to get information about your specific order. When I try to address issues in threads like this there is never going to be a "right" answer other than "everything is shipped." Since I can't wish knives into existence, it does take time to make them. We know we are behind. You all know we are behind. It took some time to get things lined up and to get settled in down in Meridian, but if you look on our subforum, instagram, or happen to be part of the SK group on facebook, or have read the newsletter, you can see that people have been getting their knives. Our backlog had been on the decline since I started tracking it every week, but with the increase in output lately it is definitely speeding up that decline. Having an S!K subforum or not doesn't change our plan to keep delivering orders as quickly as possible.

    I will still be checking in to the forums and am happy to interact with our customers here. However, I have no interest in being a whipping post for the many folks who are just looking to poke the hornet's nest, which is what a lot of this thread is.
     
    chiral.grolim likes this.
  2. shinyedges

    shinyedges Unfaltering Love & Undeviating Will Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Jun 5, 2012
    I'm honestly glad you'll interact with your remaining customers here. With your reputation tarnished, new customers will be steered away by the recommendation of members here.

    I gave suggestions that would help your company as did others many times. Some simple ones like STOP MAKING KNIVES FOR ANYONE OTHER THAN THE PEOPLE WHO ORDERED IN 2015. Jumping to another model without giving people what they paid for caused this. Good luck.
     
    Nautique and The Aflac Duck like this.
  3. katanas

    katanas

    Jan 6, 2012
    I haven't read all of the posts related to this ( WAY more I think than this thread). It is one of the strangest threads (among MANY strange ones) I have read! :rolleyes:
     
  4. The Aflac Duck

    The Aflac Duck Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 27, 2014
    Nobody is poking "the hornets nest", people just want their knives that were promised between a certain timeline...

    On another note, please take this seriously, but are you (Ellie) the single person to address people who have an issue here?

    Why cannot Guy come here and discuss the issues were have? You know, discuss it like gentleman...

    Is it really that hard to screw a few handles together and sharpen a few blades? I'm seriously not trying to be rude, im simply asking for a legitimate reason for why Survives paying customers have to wait for longer than their original stated timelines.
     
    Quiet and shinyedges like this.
  5. mlmcasual

    mlmcasual

    376
    Jun 10, 2013
    You have no interest in being a whipping post? So you are the victim now? Funny how that works. You can't wish knives into existence, but you didn't have any problem wishing paid up front preorders into existence. You guys were great at that. I even remember the rendered cad drawings you used to market the 7/7 presale 4 years ago. When the greatest virtue you guys have left is being able to say you still honor refunds, you have no business complaining about fallout. Take some ownership.

    But all that aside which is no longer relevant, I am curious at is... "Our backlog had been on the decline" By what metric is your backlog declining? You said you are now moving onto March 2015 orders putting you at over 3 years... Every customer I have read for preorders-1rsts, the backlog has been growing not shrinking. And you have been saying "you are putting out knives" for over four years at least. That is an utterly meaningless statement. Please put up some actual metrics that can be substantiated by others. Ie. what is the oldest prepaid knife (of any variety) undelivered this month, vs. 2,4,6 months ago.. vs a year ago?
    Thank you.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2018
  6. The Aflac Duck

    The Aflac Duck Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 27, 2014
    Hey dude, let's not be a complete dick to Ellie quite yet. We should at least wait for Guy to give us a BS excuse before some of us go balls out. For all we know, Ellie could be a puppet who's repeating the lies that some of us want to hear.

    For right now, I'll give her the benefit of the doubt, but that doubt and benefit is hanging by a thread...
     
    ncrockclimb likes this.
  7. Casinostocks

    Casinostocks Factotum Gold Member

    Mar 20, 2016
    Ellie, Blues Bender's suggestion to sign up for a paid membership (min gold, platinum even better) when emotions ebb was a very sound suggestion. As a paid (none service provider) member you will have PM privileges and no one can force you to participate in any public discussion which you do not wish to engage in. It's a good step forward toward establishing something more positive.
     
  8. Skystorm

    Skystorm

    Oct 17, 2011
    For what? To regurgitate more bs about knowing they are behind and catching up by golly, followed by the same ol same (Lack of) production update followed by the SK series coming soon, again. It's downright laughable that she would try and play the poor me, everyone is being mean card at this point. Apparently you should be ashamed of yourself for wondering how it could take 3+ years to sharpen and affix handles to a knife and slap a shipping label on a box.

    Why Millit would make room in their shop isn't too hard to figure out. It also seems to be what several makers do before going under, Find a hidey hole to protect your assets. Why they would want to deal with the inevitable fallout staining there rep by association is another question entirely.



     
    sharp thoughts likes this.
  9. shinyedges

    shinyedges Unfaltering Love & Undeviating Will Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Jun 5, 2012
    Spark closed their forum days ago, they haven't fulfilled orders from 2015. Steps to establishing something more positive??

    How about she skip the membership, put the money towards machining people's knives from 2015 and THAT is steps towards something more positive.

    Less talk. More production.
     
  10. Quiet

    Quiet "That guy" Platinum Member

    Oct 11, 2013
    Pointing out all the ways your sham of a company having been an abject failure isn't "poking the hornet's nest", it's telling the truth. You and Guy have run your company TERRIBLY. For years. I remember you guys getting trashed when I got here, back in 2013(!!) over the same issues. And now here we are, five years later and it's the same sob story. You guys should have kept your day jobs. Selling new models and new runs to keep the lights on because you somehow couldn't produce the knives you sold at a price that would keep you solvent was your own doing, no one else's. And that's what you seem to keep missing. This entire fiasco is entirely of your own making, and you've promised things were going to be different countless times.

    As is, everyone here will steer people clear of you, because you can't deliver. "But we do! We're totally shipping out knives, and ramping up production!"

    Of what? If your answer isn't "Making sure every last person from 2015 is taken care of first", then you're just....well, you're just doing what you do best: running a garbage company. NotGoingToSurviveKnives definitely belongs in the GBU, under "Ugly".

    The last thing I'll say here is this: NGtSK is a perfect example of a situation wherein knifemaking should have remained a side hobby until such time as you were able to make enough of a profit by understanding how to run a business.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2018
  11. The Aflac Duck

    The Aflac Duck Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 27, 2014
    My condolences are shared if you cannot understand something as simple as "sarcasm".
     
    19-3ben likes this.
  12. ncrockclimb

    ncrockclimb

    Nov 20, 2014
    Ellie said:
    "As I've mentioned before, we answer every email and every phone call from folks who contact us."
    = Nope. That has never been the case. There are a huge number of reports of people not getting calls and e-mails returned. This has been happening consistently, and as recently as last month someone posted about having difficulty contacting you. There are also recent reports of it taking multiple requests to get a refund. Yes, you always honor refunds. But you sure don't make it easy.

    Ellie said:
    "When I try to address issues in threads like this there is never going to be a "right" answer other than "everything is shipped."
    = This is passive aggressive BS.

    Ellie said:
    "Since I can't wish knives into existence, it does take time to make them."
    = I find it interesting that you took peoples money without fully understanding how long it would take to make the knives you were selling.

    Ellie said:
    "We know we are behind. You all know we are behind. It took some time to get things lined up and to get settled in down in Meridian, but if you look on our subforum, instagram, or happen to be part of the SK group on facebook, or have read the newsletter, you can see that people have been getting their knives."
    = You are trying to make this sound like it is a recent problem and the move to Meridian was the cause. You had similar excuses in the fall of 2015 and every few months since then. BIG CHANGES were just around the corner, and you were never going to make the same mistakes again. And yet, you continued to sell more knives and execute around the same business model.

    Ellie said:
    "Our backlog had been on the decline since I started tracking it every week, but with the increase in output lately it is definitely speeding up that decline."
    = WHAT!?!? You just now started tracking your backlog? I am sure that you will say that is not what you meant, but I think that is a very telling statement about how utterly disorganized your organization is.

    To build on that, you are bolting on handles and putting finished edges on knives. It is not rocket science. Any HS student with basic math skills could develop a production schedule. The fact that you have never been able to produce knives in a reasonable timeline or publish a production schedule shows that you are either grossly incompetent, unwilling to put in the work (i.e. you are lazy) or running a scam.

    Ellie said:
    "Having an S!K subforum or not doesn't change our plan to keep delivering orders as quickly as possible."
    = That is really big of you.

    Ellie said:
    "I will still be checking in to the forums and am happy to interact with our customers here. However, I have no interest in being a whipping post for the many folks who are just looking to poke the hornet's nest, which is what a lot of this thread is."
    = You are not a victim.

    Ellie has been spreading this kind of BS for years. She and Guy are S!K.
     
  13. mlmcasual

    mlmcasual

    376
    Jun 10, 2013
    Ha, your sarcasm is some of the best emulation I have ever seen. You about had me fooled.
    But actually, I am trying to be as polite and respectful as I can given the context. And I very much WOULD love to see her put up some actual Metrics of her claim to a diminishing backlog. I think people are in their right to demand that. Whether they get it is another thing.
     
    The Aflac Duck likes this.
  14. ndmiller

    ndmiller Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Nov 30, 2015
    I would suggest if you're owed a knife or want a refund, call Survive for status updates, this thread will not help you, as no-one here can give you that status. I would recommend refund, but keep on them with calls/emails until you get your knive(s)/refund(s) whichever you prefer. I would doubt having lost their BF Forum (and probably fees associated), Ellie or anyone from Survive! is going to invest in BF membership to get instant messages (from this group?). Call and/or email is the way to go, don't wait do it today.

    Survive never really changed for years (probably an active decision that drove BF members who saw the writing on the wall crazy) until they stopped taking orders (only impactful change IMHO). Their issue was/is simply a supply problem (yeah communication too, but better communication wouldn't offset the root cause). With seemingly never ending demand piling up for years and years, how could anyone expect to catch up without saying "When" and stopping the orders. And that was almost a year ago and they still aren't completely finished with preorders from years ago. There isn't a thing they could have done better except slow/eliminate demand so they start to could catch up and they didn't. This is a great case study in supply/demand and how company reputations are impacted more by negative customer experiences than any positive experience could hope to outweigh. I would suggest a poll on backlog clearing, my guess is June 2020, just shy of two years from now.

    In the spirit of full disclosure my Survive experience.
    My Survive Cru-V Ugly Betty 4.7 is one of my favorite knives I picked up direct for about $114 + shipping. How can you slow demand when you're selling an excellent (IMHO) Cerakoted fixed blade knife for $114? I would have paid $350 and I have paid $350 for very nice fixed blades, and if they were $114 I would buy 3 instead of one (which I did). Yeah I read the preorder was late, and the seconds hadn't delivered, but I got this cool Ugly Betty a few months for $114, so was happy. I grabbed some more seconds and UB direct and on the exchange, and sold the other non CRU-V knives off in the exchange. I really hoped Survive would stop taking orders. Anyone could see the frenzy surrounding people placing orders on anything they posted on their website for sale (Wed orders, new pre orders, preorders reground into other preorders, etc.) juxtaposed against the growing tide of unhappy non-delivery of pre old (? legacy) orders from many many years ago. I am glad I was never out more than a few months waiting for knives, and wasn't even on BF for the preorders.

    BF is an interesting group of collectors wide in variety of knife interests, deeply moved to root for the new makers, but fanatically passionate about keeping BF members away from trouble makers even if they are the contrarian viewpoint. I'm glad I experienced Survive, but also glad the warning hit home for me to avoid the Survive pitfalls. I have found other makers through BF frenzy, like CPK, also in top 5 favorites, Chris Reeve (just never knew about them), Fiddleback Forge and Apprentice's gone makers, along with some overseas (i.e. Daado).
     
    chiral.grolim and Coreman like this.
  15. countryguy07

    countryguy07 Gold Member Gold Member

    90
    Jun 2, 2013
    Actually Millit mentioned Survive! as recently as of July 20th on a knife they were producing for Massdrop. It was in regards to teaming up and them being able to do laser engraving on the knife in house. Hope the link shows up properly to the Instagram post of it. Feel sorry for everyone who still haven't received their knives or refunds.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BleA0t1gwuT/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=10ta5lti59gh4
     
    The Aflac Duck likes this.
  16. unwisefool

    unwisefool Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 22, 2007
    Wait, what's the story behind the hotel?
     
  17. L.H.S

    L.H.S Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 1, 2013
    I remember when S!K was started in PA (which I liked, I always like to support Commonwealth businesses) and Guy posted videos showing how well his designs/knives cut and how strong they were. I remember hearing about how serious he was about his QC and how great the knives were. But I have never been comfortable with preorders, and before I ordered one I also started to notice the extended delays.

    Since then, I don't get the interest or demand in the knives at all. You can almost get a custom for the same money and materials, if not less and better, in far less time.

    It's blown my mind to see how they've conducted business since then. I followed them here and on other social media for a while, and it was always the same. And it blew my mind even more to see people still defending them on here.

    I don't understand it. I have a feeling they should not have a forum here so I guess that's a move in the right direction.
     
    The Aflac Duck and SpySmasher like this.
  18. stonesell

    stonesell Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 20, 2009
    Just do a search here on BF: Survive! Hotel fire, and you will see the links.
    For an internet search: Kellogg, Idaho historic McConnell Hotel Fire, August 31,2017
    I am a very skeptical person when it comes to believing in Random Coincidence.
    This event probably made some members very sympathetic, and others highly suspicious.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2018
    moshow9 likes this.
  19. herdbull

    herdbull Gold Member Gold Member

    596
    Jan 30, 2018
    I read this entire thread in detail and it makes me angry that so many people have been screwed. Hard to believe that anyone would wait three years for a production knife!
     
    jeepin likes this.
  20. Hard Knocks

    Hard Knocks Gold Member Gold Member

    Oct 1, 2012
    I am by nature a very non-skeptical person......I do what I say I am going to do, and expect others to do the same. If/when someone fails to do that I am always surprised and disappointed. Sometimes this does not serve me well as is now the case in this situation with Guy, whom I hold responsible as the leader of his company and the head of his house.

    It should not have taken this long to get things straightened out, and they are still not straightened out. I asked for a refund yesterday through the company website on the last blade I have on order, a GSO 4 Limited that was promised to ship within a 10-month time frame. This order was placed November 9 of 2016, 21 months ago tomorrow. I don't know of any refund requests that have been refused to this point, and I'll post back when I receive this one.
     
    chiral.grolim, Oyster, bonky and 4 others like this.
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