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Survive! Knives Forum Closed - What Changed?

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You know when you watch a movie or read a book and you're just aghast at all of the village people cheering for someone getting hung or beheaded in the village square? All of the people cheering the demise of this company are exactly like that.

Bad, Ugly- Survive sucks at giving accurate delivery dates. Even the biggest optimist couldn't conclude they could meet their delivery timelines. If you order a S!K knife you're putting money in a black hole hoping for something pristine to come back to you. You simply cannot order a knife from them and rely on their delivery time. I think they bit off more than they can currently chew.

Good- They have the best small to mid sized knives in the business. I've never gotten anything but amazing from them. I have Beckers (and custom handles), ESSE (and custom handles), Busse's(and... you get it), AA Forge, Grey Wolf, JK, Adventure Sworn, South American, Scandinavian... not an inclusive list but I've had my hands on a few knives. CPK is the only company that compares as far as 'MY' needs are concerned. Still, Survive!'s new model 4.1 is the best mid-sized knife out there are far as I'm concerned. It's comfortable for long use, sharp as hell, good edge geometry for what I use it for.. just golden.

I decided I didn't want to wait for some knives after I'd committed money to buying them. I got a refund in 3 days. It was (to me) a big chunk of change. No nonsense, no hassle, just a refund.

Maybe I'm just the rare customer that got taken care of. Maybe .. yeah, not.
 
A bit OT but hear me out and if you wish to respond, let's not overtly name names or overtly speculate about some other people who have collaborated with Survive! in the past or are currently doing so with further plans to collaborate in the future. Let's just stick to the core and the essence:

As some of most us know, or rather most may know, Survive! is also an owner / authorized user of a proprietary heat treat known as D3V which was actually was developed by another very well-known knife maker in collaboration with with yet another well-known maker / chopping competition maestro. Well whether like it or not, that proprietary right is worth some very handsome amount of $, which I think is of great significance because the person (a member on this very forum) who loaned some $ to Survive! last year and then extended the terms to keep them afloat* saw some value in there and hopefully for his sake assessed risks / rewards.

* provided that one believes that story as I do and if you don't, then no point in furthering the discussion vector!

It was stated upthread that smart folks would not and should not get involved with Survive! Well that's an opinion which I respect if we are talking about people who wish to order from Survive! DO NOT TILL THEY GET THEIR MESS ALL SORTED OUT! In fact, go ahead and cancel orders if you do not have complete blind faith and can truly afford to lose those fund$. That said, there's nothing dumb, stupid or unsmart about people who see a potential in Survive!'s intellectual property or propriety rights because of CAPITALISM. We can all sit in here and sing kumbaya about being an altruistic knife community but we are a small niche of the most fanatical of the knife using community out there. We may not like to see collaboration between BSS / Survive! or Millit / Survive! but if they see a business opportunity in there and don't care much about the ardent members of this forum, that's their prerogative to flex their financial muscle at the expense of losing some or lots of buyers from here.

Full disclosure, I would like to see the original developer of that HT to be able to buy it back before it sells on, if interested or has some sort of first right of refusal before that falls into predatory hands because I do trust the original developer more than anyone else to know exactly how that HT suits the product. After all breaking a few eggs does not make an omelet! I'd hate to see someone else's shortcoming elsewhere taint the reputation of a great thing. Further, I'm not personally interested either in what BSS hawks on Social Media or what Millit sells (too blingy for my tastes as I like them simple) so I doubt that anything would effect me personally no matter what these associated outfits do. As for Survive!'s new product go if / when they're offered en masse, I was never a big fan of their peened finish as I prefer tumbled finish so I doubt if I jump back into the game but at the same time I do not hold this huge grudge against them to not buy something / anything from them or an authorized distributor / dealer if they offer a readily available product that both appeals to me b both aesthetically and mechanically.
 
grogimus said:
You know when you watch a movie or read a book and you're just aghast at all of the village people cheering for someone getting hung or beheaded in the village square? All of the people cheering the demise of this company are exactly like that.

Bad, Ugly- Survive sucks at giving accurate delivery dates. Even the biggest optimist couldn't conclude they could meet their delivery timelines. If you order a S!K knife you're putting money in a black hole hoping for something pristine to come back to you. You simply cannot order a knife from them and rely on their delivery time. I think they bit off more than they can currently chew.

Good- They have the best small to mid sized knives in the business. I've never gotten anything but amazing from them. I have Beckers (and custom handles), ESSE (and custom handles), Busse's(and... you get it), AA Forge, Grey Wolf, JK, Adventure Sworn, South American, Scandinavian... not an inclusive list but I've had my hands on a few knives. CPK is the only company that compares as far as 'MY' needs are concerned. Still, Survive!'s new model 4.1 is the best mid-sized knife out there are far as I'm concerned. It's comfortable for long use, sharp as hell, good edge geometry for what I use it for.. just golden.

I decided I didn't want to wait for some knives after I'd committed money to buying them. I got a refund in 3 days. It was (to me) a big chunk of change. No nonsense, no hassle, just a refund.

Maybe I'm just the rare customer that got taken care of. Maybe .. yeah, not.
Click to expand...
If they had taken care of business properly and honestly, I'm positive that they would be doing exceptionally well right now.
Unfortunately thats not the case. When you lie and make empty promises year after year, well, it gets harder and harder for the community to support you or have sympathy and understanding.
 
danbot said:
If they had taken care of business properly and honestly, I'm positive that they would be doing exceptionally well right now.
Unfortunately thats not the case. When you lie and make empty promises year after year, well, it gets harder and harder for the community to support you or have sympathy and understanding.
Click to expand...

It's the lying and the dishonesty that eventually become their bane. Simply put, that's why Kevin gave them the boot.
 
grogimus said:
You know when you watch a movie or read a book and you're just aghast at all of the village people cheering for someone getting hung or beheaded in the village square? All of the people cheering the demise of this company are exactly like that.

Bad, Ugly- Survive sucks at giving accurate delivery dates. Even the biggest optimist couldn't conclude they could meet their delivery timelines. If you order a S!K knife you're putting money in a black hole hoping for something pristine to come back to you. You simply cannot order a knife from them and rely on their delivery time. I think they bit off more than they can currently chew.

Good- They have the best small to mid sized knives in the business. I've never gotten anything but amazing from them. I have Beckers (and custom handles), ESSE (and custom handles), Busse's(and... you get it), AA Forge, Grey Wolf, JK, Adventure Sworn, South American, Scandinavian... not an inclusive list but I've had my hands on a few knives. CPK is the only company that compares as far as 'MY' needs are concerned. Still, Survive!'s new model 4.1 is the best mid-sized knife out there are far as I'm concerned. It's comfortable for long use, sharp as hell, good edge geometry for what I use it for.. just golden.

I decided I didn't want to wait for some knives after I'd committed money to buying them. I got a refund in 3 days. It was (to me) a big chunk of change. No nonsense, no hassle, just a refund.

Maybe I'm just the rare customer that got taken care of. Maybe .. yeah, not.
Click to expand...
Currently chew? They bit off more about 3 years ago. Many of us predicted it. Some still drank the koolaid, and some still do. They are gone from here for good reason. Using this community to propagate an obvious scam is wrong. The mods and owner did good by the rest of us by closing their sub down.

Their knives aren't that special. Sharp is not a selling point unless you don't use the knife and can't sharpen. No extra credit for delivering a sharp knife. It should be sharp.

It should also be delivered.
 
Casinostocks said:
A bit OT but hear me out and if you wish to respond, let's not overtly name names or overtly speculate about some other people who have collaborated with Survive! in the past or are currently doing so with further plans to collaborate in the future. Let's just stick to the core and the essence:

As some of most us know, or rather most may know, Survive! is also an owner / authorized user of a proprietary heat treat known as D3V which was actually was developed by another very well-known knife maker in collaboration with with yet another well-known maker / chopping competition maestro. Well whether like it or not, that proprietary right is worth some very handsome amount of $, which I think is of great significance because the person (a member on this very forum) who loaned some $ to Survive! last year and then extended the terms to keep them afloat* saw some value in there and hopefully for his sake assessed risks / rewards.

* provided that one believes that story as I do and if you don't, then no point in furthering the discussion vector!

It was stated upthread that smart folks would not and should not get involved with Survive! Well that's an opinion which I respect if we are talking about people who wish to order from Survive! DO NOT TILL THEY GET THEIR MESS ALL SORTED OUT! In fact, go ahead and cancel orders if you do not have complete blind faith and can truly afford to lose those fund$. That said, there's nothing dumb, stupid or unsmart about people who see a potential in Survive!'s intellectual property or propriety rights because of CAPITALISM. We can all sit in here and sing kumbaya about being an altruistic knife community but we are a small niche of the most fanatical of the knife using community out there. We may not like to see collaboration between BSS / Survive! or Millit / Survive! but if they see a business opportunity in there and don't care much about the ardent members of this forum, that's their prerogative to flex their financial muscle at the expense of losing some or lots of buyers from here.

Full disclosure, I would like to see the original developer of that HT to be able to buy it back before it sells on, if interested or has some sort of first right of refusal before that falls into predatory hands because I do trust the original developer more than anyone else to know exactly how that HT suits the product. After all breaking a few eggs does not make an omelet! I'd hate to see someone else's shortcoming elsewhere taint the reputation of a great thing. Further, I'm not personally interested either in what BSS hawks on Social Media or what Millit sells (too blingy for my tastes as I like them simple) so I doubt that anything would effect me personally no matter what these associated outfits do. As for Survive!'s new product go if / when they're offered en masse, I was never a big fan of their peened finish as I prefer tumbled finish so I doubt if I jump back into the game but at the same time I do not hold this huge grudge against them to not buy something / anything from them or an authorized distributor / dealer if they offer a readily available product that both appeals to me b both aesthetically and mechanically.
Click to expand...
So do they own a part of D3v? In a discussion like this you can't just bring that up without some answers.

I'm the one who said it would not be smart to be linked with them now or in the first place, knowing what we did years ago.

As I understand it this millit thing is relatively new. Their business model was not hard to figure out, especially if you are going to share a shop or equipment.

Don't bring it up if you don't want to discuss it. You know the parties better than most. Please elaborate on this story you are half telling.
 
^ the fact that they use D3V and use the same HT'ing outfit, at the very least indicates that they have usage rights but if I had to I would say that they also have propriety rights. Can't provide contractual proof to the latter but the proof of the former is on their knives!
I for one, will not discuss names regarding this topic. <shrug>
 
craytab said:
Currently chew? They bit off more about 3 years ago. Many of us predicted it. Some still drank the koolaid, and some still do. They are gone from here for good reason. Using this community to propagate an obvious scam is wrong. The mods and owner did good by the rest of us by closing their sub down.

Their knives aren't that special. Sharp is not a selling point unless you don't use the knife and can't sharpen. No extra credit for delivering a sharp knife. It should be sharp.

It should also be delivered.
Click to expand...

Respectfully, there is more to a good knife than a good edge. They deliver (when they Finally deliver) an almost perfect product. Plenty of people predicated their demise but let's face it, there's no company here lacking in detractors. Their knives are that special, IMO.

Did Survive! do you wrong, personally? I've no truck with social justice warriors.
 
Dutchtracker said:
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/d3v-anybody.1471694/


The d3V heat treat protocol was a joint effort between Carothers, Seiferd and Keffeler.
Click to expand...

There's more about that topic in the now defunct and archived S! subforum if anyone is interested to do their own searches. I haven't said anything that was not discussed before, but was not willing to provide links an such. The whole point was to bring to the attention of some that Survive! knives posses and could potentially own something of greater value above and over their equipment, knife blanks, sheets of steel, etc...
 
I used to own Survive knives and the ones that I did own were excellent in quality. I guess I must have come along during the sinking of their ship. When I read all the negativity about them, not just here on Bladeforums, I decided not to support the company anymore. I refuse to give my money to anyone that knowingly rips their customers off, no matter how good of a knife they make...
 
"Did Survive! do you wrong, personally? I've no truck with social justice warriors."
Well, S!K delivered months after agreed date. I like the knives (3), but life is too short to intentionally deal with proven ne'er-do-wells who can't or won't keep their word. Many "fish in the sea."

I hope they, somehow, get it together, but it seems unlikely.
 
grogimus said:
You know when you watch a movie or read a book and you're just aghast at all of the village people cheering for someone getting hung or beheaded in the village square? All of the people cheering the demise of this company are exactly like that.

Bad, Ugly- Survive sucks at giving accurate delivery dates. Even the biggest optimist couldn't conclude they could meet their delivery timelines. If you order a S!K knife you're putting money in a black hole hoping for something pristine to come back to you. You simply cannot order a knife from them and rely on their delivery time. I think they bit off more than they can currently chew.

Good- They have the best small to mid sized knives in the business. I've never gotten anything but amazing from them. I have Beckers (and custom handles), ESSE (and custom handles), Busse's(and... you get it), AA Forge, Grey Wolf, JK, Adventure Sworn, South American, Scandinavian... not an inclusive list but I've had my hands on a few knives. CPK is the only company that compares as far as 'MY' needs are concerned. Still, Survive!'s new model 4.1 is the best mid-sized knife out there are far as I'm concerned. It's comfortable for long use, sharp as hell, good edge geometry for what I use it for.. just golden.

I decided I didn't want to wait for some knives after I'd committed money to buying them. I got a refund in 3 days. It was (to me) a big chunk of change. No nonsense, no hassle, just a refund.

Maybe I'm just the rare customer that got taken care of. Maybe .. yeah, not.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry, but you're seriously underselling the bad and the ugly in this scenario.

A couple of years ago and I would have agreed with you, but since then they've begun the exceptionally dubious practice of pre-selling seconds, selling new knives to certain folks while older orders, that have been paid in full, have been left to moulder and have had delay after delay after delay, all while stringing along the same set of excuses.

Being bad at hitting delivery dates is, honestly a pretty minor thing IF YOU HAVEN'T CHARGED UPFRONT! If you have, being as bad about delivery dates as Survive has been is quite literally illegal. https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/selling-internet-prompt-delivery-rules
 
They have spun a twisted and complex web of unpredictable business practices.
If they could learn to deliver a great product, without the high drama, there are many buyers for well made multipurpose survival knives.
I seriously doubt that they will shift the business towards an upfront and honest venue.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
I'm sorry, but you're seriously underselling the bad and the ugly in this scenario.

A couple of years ago and I would have agreed with you, but since then they've begun the exceptionally dubious practice of pre-selling seconds, selling new knives to certain folks while older orders, that have been paid in full, have been left to moulder and have had delay after delay after delay, all while stringing along the same set of excuses.

Being bad at hitting delivery dates is, honestly a pretty minor thing IF YOU HAVEN'T CHARGED UPFRONT! If you have, being as bad about delivery dates as Survive has been is quite literally illegal. https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/selling-internet-prompt-delivery-rules
Click to expand...
Holy moly. Reading the linked page, S!K has probably opened themselves to some serious liability. If they don't have documented agreements with all of the customers who have been delayed for more than 30 days, they were required by this law to refund all of those payments automatically. I can almost smell the class-action on this one!
 
grogimus said:
Respectfully, there is more to a good knife than a good edge. They deliver (when they Finally deliver) an almost perfect product. Plenty of people predicated their demise but let's face it, there's no company here lacking in detractors. Their knives are that special, IMO.

Did Survive! do you wrong, personally? I've no truck with social justice warriors.
Click to expand...
That was my point. You said they had a quality edge. Good. They should. No credit for doing what they should.

I've had a knife from them. From the pa days. Came with a blunt tip. Sent it back and guy fixed it right away. Good customer service in that respect and back then.

I'm personally wronged when a company like them operates a scam in a community I am a part of and support financially. They did it long enough to get the boot.
 
Regarding the BSS time line.
If the BSS 7/7s were purchased 2 years ago and are now ready to ship, (looks like they are), then BSS was put way in front of a lot of other customers that prepaid. That has always been a big complaint against SK! that they will deliver orders placed way out of chronological order. But BSS's 7/7s would be adding a new and even MORE outrageous egregious act, because it would mean SK delivered BSS's firsts of Model "7/7" way before other customer's firsts of the same model "7/7". If true, as far as I am aware, that would be a first (no pun) even for SK!. The BSS firsts as far as I can tell are in no way different from other firsts to be classified as different models (a different laser engraving doesn't count).

Regarding the SK! Forum Boot and Shilling Platform
Good call by BF to get rid of the SK! forums which also took away the main platform of the SK! shills that worked so hard to attack legit questions/criticisms and make bogus defenses on SK!'s behalf. That obfuscation and shilling only served to harm new BF members and help trap knife buyers into the SK non-delivery black hole. I have NEVER seen such a case in any other venue,product,forums of fanboys becoming shills as I have this company. That is the (other) elephant in the room. It wasn't just SK!s actions that got the forums shot down, it was the SK! shilling and attacking of any that dared question SK!, calling people liars, ad Ad hominem attacks etc. that became a blight on BF- but was ultimately addressed by BF. Good job.
 
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craytab said:
That was my point. You said they had a quality edge. Good. They should. No credit for doing what they should.

I've had a knife from them. From the pa days. Came with a blunt tip. Sent it back and guy fixed it right away. Good customer service in that respect and back then.

I'm personally wronged when a company like them operates a scam in a community I am a part of and support financially. They did it long enough to get the boot.
Click to expand...

Sounds like some great customer service. You're not personally wronged when someone in a community operates a scam, unless there's a scam. Who has asked for a refund, and not gotten it? Pay for it and wait, or don't. If they violate that I'll be 100% behind what you're saying.
 
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