Survivorman, sorry...

[Jim Craig]

I just read through the last Survivorman thred, then when I got to the end, I was pretty spooled up, only to find that it was locked. Also, about two-thirds of the way through I began skimming, so if there is a reason it was locked that should prevent me from starting this up, I apologize.

A couple of things that need to be said regarding this show and Mr. STROUD.
1. First of all, I live well above the Arctic Circle, and it is a VERY small community up here. I have it on authority that his trip in the arctic was done alone. No way out, no help around the corner or behind the camera.
2. To counter what some say about it being a set time limit with a crew waiting. Well that is wonderful if he does not get lost, which is very simple to do, especially up here with few landmarks. STill, 7 days in the arctic is a lot without the proper equipment, many would die.
3. Each episode is a different survival scenario. Sure, he could carry more appropriate gear, but when he lost his canoe & packs down a river in Ontario, it was gone and he had to make do. He did not try to fix his bike because the scenerio was a broken down bike. Or snow mobile, or whatever. The point is make do and improvise with what you have.
4. In the desert, he was thirsty, which is why he drank the water. Die of thirst, or MAYBE get sick? Simple answer. Simple point.
5. How many shows has he made? Ten? Probably more. That's at least seventy days in the bush, desert, swamp, snow, mountains, jungle, etc., with squat for equipment that most of us, including the naysayers will NEVER do. That is not including the year with his wife. What kind of qualifications do you need?
6. It is a show. And a damn good one. There are mistakes because people make mistakes when they are cold, tired, thirsty, injured, scared, or unfamiliar with their environment.

You know, before I moved north ten years ago, I thought, man, am I going to be warm (yet look cool) in my puffy down Mountain Hardware jacket and my Supergoretexdryskinprimaloftbib pants, and my Patagonia expedition weight long underwear. It had to be the best stuff, it cost $1800. I didn't need to ask the locals... Two months later I had to drop another $500 on a proper, low tech Snow Goose parka, and some Sorels, and pack the high tech stuff I "knew" would work, away until it warmed up in spring. Everything we learn by reading in books, magazines and on the internet is great. If it works. The only way to know for sure, is do it. Which is what the Les STROUD's and Ron HOOD's of the world are doing. Some of us are just bitching from our computer tables.
Now, go outside.

 

[SubaruSTi]

its too cold to go out stay in and:jerkit: :thumbup:

 

[RGRAY]

I like the show.

There is another episode; Friday night at 9:00 p.m. est. on the science channel.

 

[Goodmanfj]

Well said Jim , Thanks.

 

[Jim Craig]

OOooopps. I just re-read my first post, and noticed smoething. Please don't take "year with his wife" comment as a smart ass remark about his wife. I was just mentioning it because he was in the bush for a year, albeit not alone.
That is why there are proofreaders....:foot:

 

[Cliff Stamp]

1. First of all, I live well above the Arctic Circle, and it is a VERY small community up here. I have it on authority that his trip in the arctic was done alone. No way out, no help around the corner or behind the camera.

This is not what he notes on his website, he specifically states that he has a sat phone on him at all times, though he states that it only worked about 50% of the time.

3. Each episode is a different survival scenario. Sure, he could carry more appropriate gear, but when he lost his canoe & packs down a river in Ontario, it was gone and he had to make do. He did not try to fix his bike because the scenerio was a broken down bike. Or snow mobile, or whatever. The point is make do and improvise with what you have.

That is the point, in such a situation is the first thing you do start to take the bike apart in a random manner, and then wander off leaving no sign when you were there and where you are going, or using the brightly colored bike as a signal. If you want to use this to demonstrate what not to do, that is fine, but somewhere actually note this is what you are doing.

4. In the desert, he was thirsty, which is why he drank the water. Die of thirst, or MAYBE get sick? Simple answer. Simple point.

He does this all the time, including when he has a fire going. By the same logic you should never purify water in a survival situation.

What kind of qualifications do you need?

This really isn't the issue. It is what is done on screen, not what he is actually capable of that is being discussed.

It is a show.

It is promoted as education, not simply entertainment.

There are mistakes because people make mistakes when they are cold, tired, thirsty, injured, scared, or unfamiliar with their environment.

I would agree, unfortunately he never actually presents them as mistakes and it is easy to see how people could think his behavior should be duplicated.

-Cliff

 

[skammer]

Too think this is survival education is missinformed.

Its entertainment plain and simple.

Skam

 

[rhino]

I enjoy the show for what it is and it makes me think about things I have no previously considered. I wouldn't actually try some of the things he does that are unfamiliar to me unless and until I did some more research and/or got some competent instruction.

The part I don't like about the show is when he does his liberal hand wringing about how wrong it is to kill anything unless it's a dire life or death situation. It almost sounds like he wouldn't eat an animal or use leather during his every day life.

 

[Goodmanfj]

It's a great show , Dont take it to heart, Its no where near a Ron Hood show but has some great points, I love how he builds this big o shelter then he's cold all night,but he points out his flaws.(some of them any way ) .If you want true grit look up Ron's vids.

 

[longbow50]

I'm sure what I'm going to write was covered well in the other thread and I'm sure that I'll be considered out of line by some, but, survivalists aren't the only people watching this show. There are people out there that have no frigging clue about what it takes to survive and if they take his actions to heart, which many inexperienced will, they are going to eat the mushroom they aren't sure about, or drink the water known to carry deadly parasites, etc. and they are going to die. His actions are irresponsible at best, if he thinks the average Joe out there knows why he does what he does.

A good example of this is, if he's gonna take a sharp blade out, for GODs sake, tell the folks at home how to properly handle the knife. Don't just cut your thumb off and then expect them to know what he did wrong. Heck, many people are terrified of using a knife outside of the kitchen and he may have just talked someone out of including one in their so called *survival kit*. That makes absolutely no sense what so ever to me.

Entertaining? Absolutely! Would I recommend his show to anyone that is inexperienced in survival techniques? Absolutely not! That is, not unless there is someone sitting through it with them, that's able to answer their questions.

 

[Ebbtide]

Dang, wouldja lookit dat.
Dat dang horse, she moved yumpin yimminy!
And all this time I tought she was dead.

 

[Jim Craig]

Cliff, what good is a sat phone, if you don't know where you are?

Guys, the show is an hour long, and there are commercials. There is only so much time. Maybe some of the explanations are cut out. I hardly think the show is, in any way, irresponsible.

And the mushrooms... It's been a while since I've seen the episode, but I'm pretty sure he explains that you should NOT eat any mushrooms unless you know which ones are edible.

Longbow 50: I'm not sure that Les STROUD has had any more knife training than the average person does in the kitchen, so what is he supposed to tell people? I don't recall hiim saying his show is about knife use. How many police documentaries teach you how to use a gun?

Man, this is a tough crowd. Please, never ask me how to do anything, because I know I'd only get an argument....

And finally, if you know so much more and can do so much better, where is your survival show???
...........................................................................
?
That's what I thought.

Last post, Ebbtide, promise. 'less I'm provoked...

Love,
Jim.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

I love how he builds this big o shelter then he's cold all night,but he points out his flaws.

He often does though is misinforming. For example when he tries to build an igloo he complains that it can't and that this is the worst kind of snow to use. It isn't the worse kind of snow, you can get really powdery snow in which the blocks even if you can cut them won't hold their own weight. Plus that isn't why he fails to build one. His blocks are too long and the aspect ratio is off, they are far too thin and tall. Plus he doesn't bevel the ends or the top, thus none of the surfaces mate correctly and there is no gentle sloping arc. Now while it may be entertaining to watch him fail and then complain, it certainly isn't education as nothing is learned and a false sense of difficulty is given about the task.

Cliff, what good is a sat phone, if you don't know where you are?

GPS. It never struck you as interesting that they always know exactly where to pick him up even though when other people get lost and people go look for them with large rescure parties they don't pick them up within a few hours.

And the mushrooms... It's been a while since I've seen the episode, but I'm pretty sure he explains that you should NOT eat any mushrooms unless you know which ones are edible.

Yes, and then he comments that he hopes the one he has just eaten is ok, then laughs about it. What about if he was swinging around a loaded gun while saying you should never point it at anyone, this would not be irresponsible either right because he said what you should do, even if he just demonstrated right after it as an *instructor* he doesn't pay any attention to the "rules". No, that isn't irresponsible.

-Cliff

 

[skammer]

I know Les is capable of better he has taught surivival professionally for decades.

Why he plays the village idiot on his show I have no idea, ratings I suspect.

The way I see it, if you can't spot the obvious errors and missinformation he is spouting you need some survival education. We are not talking rocket science here just common sense.

Its not about being a "tough crowd" its about pointing out serious errors that should not occur especially when the show is marketed as educational which it is.

Again, its entertainment no more.

Skam

 

[Cliff Stamp]

We are not talking rocket science here just common sense.

If you have done it, or have the relevant experience, but I don't think it is common sense for example to realize just how quick the weather can turn in northern canada for example. I also think making mistakes can be educational, you just have to realize they are mistakes and point out the correct path of action.

My brother just got a new digital camera and what I have been thinking of doing, assuming I can convince him to lend me the camera and hopefully participate (possibly bribe him with some knives) is to use this to play with a few senarios.

Tape say 5-10 minutes of an area and then put it on the web with some kind of challenge (start a fire, build a shelter, make a visible signal, figure out how to navigate the terrain, etc.), then actually try to implement some methods.

Different gear could be used as well, for example a small puukko, leuko, sak, bowie, bolo, axe, saw, take your pick, or nothing and then figure out how to best use them to acomplish a given task.

After it is done we could discuss the results, what worked, what didn't, the specific problems and hopefully how to solve them.

-Cliff

 

[Codger_64]

That sounds like a plan! On one of my fishing forums, fly swaps are the norm. Occasionally, an off the wall idea crops up for a unique swap. One was a survival scenario. A vehicle found abandoned in the wilderness, a '64 Ford truck. Components are used to make fishing flies. Some very unique and creative ideas emerged from that. And importantly, ideas that worked and caught fish!!!

Codger

 

[Cliff Stamp]

That is an interesting idea, there are a couple of places close to where I live (a few miles) where people have dumped cars, it would be interesting to see what people could come up with. Most of them while in very poor condition often have lots of usable material such as seat belts, lots of wiring, sheet metal, glass and of course often thick rubber tires, plus most of the old ones have very heavy chrome bumpers which are still very reflective.

-Cliff

 

[Jim Craig]

I really don't think he's playing the village idiot. I think the things he fails at are usually things he has not done very often, like build an igloo. In that case, he was trying to use very dry, crumbly snow. Not the dense packed hard snow that works best for igloos. The powdery snow you mentioned, Cliff, would indeed be terrible for igloos, but then, I would not be building an igloo. A quinzie (sp?) would be the way to go. The powder snow is easy to move into a pile, and a couple hours in the sun, (or four hours out of the sun) and you'll have a nice hard crust, and can start digging. I find them WAY easier tp build than igloos, but they only last a week or two before falling in.
It is easy to be critical in here, but he is alone in a very close to real survival scenario. Even though they are coming to get him in 7 days, he is usually very cold, hungry and/or thirsty. When he drinks questionable water, it's because he has to. He usually does not have anything to boil water in, except maybe some of his camera equipment, if he took it apart, but that would be cheating.
And a sat phone is not a GPS. He does not carry a GPS. I believe he uses a Globalstar phone or a similar product, and it is NOT a GPS. Which explains why he pops out of the bush on a highway and doe not know which way to turn, or why he ended up a couple of days away from the arctic community he was trying to get back to, and had to hitch a ride with a local hunter he found.
I don't think Les is the ultimate survivor any more than I think Richard Hatch is, but he still knows what he is doing, and it is a pretty entertaining and informative show.

and then he comments that he hopes the one he has just eaten is ok, then laughs about it. What about if he was swinging around a loaded gun while saying you should never point it at anyone, this would not be irresponsible either right because he said what you should do, even if he just demonstrated right after it as an *instructor* he doesn't pay any attention to the "rules". No, that isn't irresponsible.

I dunno, I guess he was hungry. He is still alive, you know.
For the love of Pete, don't play any rock and roll record in reverse. Someone will likely start worshiping the devil.
For the record, I don't know anyone who has dropped a 6 foot boulder on a coyote, put an anvil behind a red sheet and made a bull run into it, or cut out a circular hole in the floor and had the entire house collapse while the round piece of floor stayed put, yet we all used to watch Looney Toons.
When you bought your last vehicle did you go and drive it through the desert at 150kms/hr, or go sliding around corners on empty city streets, like in those commercials with the little disclaimer, "Closed course. Professional driver. Do not attempt"? Didn't think so. The disclaimer tipped you off that it was wrong, right? Or maybe you just knew it was wrong.
As far as the water goes, people have been drinking untreated water forever, and yes, there can be problems, such as giardia, and worse in someplaces, but they are not so common that you should dehydrate yourself, and put your life at risk for certain. At least not here. And definitley not in Newfoundland, either.
It's like hantavirus. In the one of the Reserves in Alberta, a lady died from hantavirus, passed on through fecal matter from deer mice. Everyone was in a panic everytime someone spotted one, and rightfully so. Then tests were done on mice in the area, and it was found that nearly 50% of the mice carry the disease. And worse, 90 % of the houses have deer mice in them. Yet there is only one case, in a community of more than 12,000 people. Of course it's tragic, and people have to be careful, but everyone is not dying of hantavirus. Waterbourne parasites are the same thing. You will not get sick everytime you drink untreated water. There are plenty of communities in Canada that drink straight from the lakes they are near. But you WILL get sick if you DON't drink water. No freebies there.
It seems what you want is a show that showcases how to do everything right, and Les is doing a show about how to survive with what he has. No, he is not always the picture of perfection, and probably has never heard of CPM S30V or Schoeller Dryskin or Ron HOOD. Who cares? Lance Armstrong is a professional cyclist, so is Steve Peat. One uses a road bike, one rides down mountains. Different philosophies, both cyclists. They are both good, just different.
This whole thing is starting to sound like a couple of half assed martial artists picking apart a kung-fu movie. My fault, I started it. Sorry. Should have known better around here.:barf:

 

[Codger_64]

Strange. I actually thought the thread had begun to take an upswing. Goes to show what I know! Oh well, I'm just a poor country boy. And I will survive.
(Take it Hank Jr.!)

Codger

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Not the dense packed hard snow that works best for igloos.

This wasn't the main problem, watch the way it is constructed, in particular the shape of the blocks.

[camera]

.. if he took it apart, but that would be cheating.

He has done exactly that on occasion, and boiled water using other means in other shows, using it too cook various foods.

[in spite of the behavior]

He is still alive, you know.

Yes, people survive all kinds of things, how many people go on hikes and tell no one where they are going and when they are coming back and still make it out fine. Would you use this to advocate such behavior after all they don't die either.

... yet we all used to watch Looney Toons.

Interesting that you put the show into the same class of TV.

And definitley not in Newfoundland, either.

I have never purified water when outside and it never hurt me either, doesn't mean I would tell people not to do it.

It seems what you want is a show that showcases how to do everything right ...

I don't think that is even possible, in the sense that everyone would agree anyway. However there is a big jump from that to "I am not going to build a shelter and hope the weather doesn't turn."

-Cliff