Sword Picture Thread: This you can trust

I would be interested in seeing your exact swords. The Knights of Columbus swords, while similar are specifically different. The example in my photos, third from our right, with the longest blade has a plain fullered blade that is of the army 1840 type. As unmarked, there is no determination that it was anything but a militia sword. The example with the long blade, while unmarked, was likely assembled by the WH Horstmann company. Likewise the dark example with the urn type pommel. The rest in that grouping all done by the Ames Sword Co. and earlier NP Ames examples. All of them most likely militia and not society/fraternal use and before the American Civil War.

There are three specific Knights of Columbus sword types. Two of them have busts of Columbus as pommels (one facing forward, the other outwards), the third a flying eagle on top of a globe.

Cheers
GC
 
I'll try to get a photo posted for you to see, but it's EXACTLY like the one you have. The knight's head on the pommel faces the same direction. The blade MIGHT be shorter than that long one, but the ribs on the ivory (or whatever it is) grip is thinner and more like the 3rd one.
But that's great information, knowing they were most likely militia and not ceremonial! Thanks! What country/who's army were they made for?
 
The swords in my pictures are of the US militia type. The general form was adopted for Masonic and others but those will generally have quite skinny blades and have other traits of the later swords. There were hundreds of military associations and fraternal groups after the war.

The ribs, or reeding is one way to differentiate between the Ames and Horstmann swords. These with fullered blades are less common and perhaps assembled from parts after the ACW. The pommels first appear on French First Empire dress swords, soon after their revolution and these depict Roman Centurion helmets. The more knightly looking examples more truly knight types but it is often easier to just regard them as helmet heads. These early militia swords are centurion helmets, As far as facing one direction or the other, just flip it over ;)

Cheers
GC
 
Yes, this is one of the examples with a spadroon type blade. The type of blade as found with the army 1840 nco and musician swords. With the very short blade you list, that is the length of some of the musician boys sword. That makes it shorter than the two spadroon bladed swords shown in my pictures. I would list it as uncommon but consistent with Horstmann manufacture. The ferrule/collar to the grip is incised in the Horstmann fashion. Possibly of the 1860s period or later in the century. For a size comparison, here is a 32" bladed Ames nco sword and a very short Roby musician boy's sword. The standard musician swords had 26" blades.

Merry Christmas

prupbtr.jpg
 
...and I play guitar, so it's perfect! Thanks so much for all the info. Very much appreciated! My dad bought these two swords for me back when I was 18 or so at a flea market, so about 34 years ago, and we've never known exactly how old they were or what they were used for.

Have a holly jolly Christmas yourself and a wonderful New Year! Jingle all the way, because no one likes a half-hearted jingler!
 
As I look through the different WH Horstmann patterns, it seems the shield on the center of the crosspiece is usually engraved like an American flag (stars and stripes) whereas mine is plain. Is that any indication of manufacture or purpose, or just one of the many variations? I think my dad paid $25 or so for each of them. I've kept them in good condition (there was pitting on the blades when I got them) but they don't seem to have appreciated much in price. Not that I want to sell them, I just thought for the age they'd be worth more. They must've banged these things out by the thousands!
 
Found this one online today:

https://imgur.com/a/Jg695Qz

Made by Henderson Ames and it seems to say Musician on the blade towards the hilt. Blade is flat and non-fullered and the hilt crosspiece is all one piece up to the handle. Different filigree as well. Just for comparison sake.

The site had a bunch that were mage for the different societies and fraternal orders and they all seem to be a lot more ornate on the hilts with blade etchings as well.
 
There is a lot of information Tim Graham and I accumulated over the years and posted to a thread elsewhere. My primary interest is the early Ames examples from the 1830s-1850s, although I do have a couple of Horstmann and more recently found a civil war period Justice company example.
http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?104816-Early-Ames-And-Other-s-Militia-NCO-Patterns

The script at the base of that sword, aside from Henderson Ames, would be Kalamazoo Michigan.
http://www.kpl.gov/local-history/business/henderson-ames.aspx

The basic cruciform sword types were used for many decades and, as with your sword, may or may not have been a band sword. I was simply describing the blade type and showed the more contemporary hilt types for regulation forms. The standard period 19th century US Army musician sword looks like this.
1021sw2.jpg 1021sw1.jpg

A better look at the other two I mentioned. A standard Ames m1840 nco sword dated 1864 next to the short USMC musician boys sword, also of the war years.
prlftlng.jpg
prght.jpg

A militia cruciform nco sword headed to the Potomac worn by a New York sergeant Most all with the unfullered blades. As mentioned, the fullered bladed examples may simply have been assembled after the war, or during the war but no mention I know of as to why.

From the Time Life book series
tKhTq1E.jpg

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My most recent/last (for now) plain Mexican War short Ames with the lenticular blade
shrt f.JPG
 
Thanks again for all the info! That last one from the Mexican War looks very similar to mine, apart from the fullered blade. I heard the blades were actually made abroad (Germany?) and only assembled in the U.S.?
Should mine have scabbards? I doubt I'd ever find any, but it would be something to keep my eye out for if they existed.
 
Yes, the guards and pommels are quite similar for many decades, with differences already posted a few times in this thread. Horstmann was more apt to be assembling and using imported blades and entire swords. Ames was very much a blade and casting producer on their own.

Most of the plain bladed swords had leather scabbards, later on paper vellum and late in the century more steel scabbards. Most of the leather and vellum scabbards disintegrated. One might find reproduction scabbards out there on eBay and from sutlers such as Dixie Gun Works. For the fullered blades, the regular 1840 nco and shorter musician scabbards might be a fit. No guarantees.

Cheers
GC
 
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