Sword Stick Concept - Design and Materials?

A

Asuryan

Joined
Mar 17, 2016
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Hello, as the title has stated, I'm interested in designing a sword stick, but I've only done online research and would love to hear from more experienced individuals who may be able to provide insightful information regarding its practicality, price, etc.

I've done some measurements and found that the height between my arm and the ground when the former is bent at 90 degrees, is approximately 47 inches/119.38 centimeters, but the total length of the stick will likely be 50 inches/127 centimeters. The handle will probably be 10 inches/25.4 centimeters long while the blade occupies the remaining 39.5 inches/100.33 centimeters while being 1 inch/2.54 centimeters wide. Though the sword should be rapier-ish in style with its primary function being stabbing and thrusting, I also would like it to be able to cut decently, if not well. which is why I'm not entirely sure what the blade shape or fuller will be quite yet.

I'm hoping the sword itself will be something similar to this: http://bladegathering.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/DSCN3956.jpg
But with a much longer blade and handle, and without the engravings or externally visible metal pieces.

Something much closer in appearance when sheathed would be: http://new.uniquejapan.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/shikomitsue-33-Edit.jpg
Of course, with the aforementioned differences and a matte black lacquer instead of a glossy one, as well as a oblong shape to help with edge alignment.

Another detail I hope to include is a counterweight within the flared end of the stick, as in the place where you would rest your hand when using it as a walking stick, to make the sword easier to wield, unless its not needed for this type of sword.

I'm not sure how the sword would be kept in its sheath besides the button release/lock mechanism that most cane swords use, but I'm not overly fond of that design as the button is usually noticeably visible to anyone that bothers to take a second look. If there are any other, more discrete, and preferably internal mechanisms that can be used to the same degree of effectiveness, please don't hesitate to mention it.

Now, onto the materials.

I've looked through common sword steels like 1045/60/95 Carbon Steel, Spring Steel and Tool Steel, with three steels that immediately stand out to me: 9260 Spring Steel, L6 Bainite and S7 Shock Steel. 9260 for its reputable durability, Bainite for its apparent reputation of being the toughest sword steel on the market, and Shock Steel which is described as sharing many similarities with Bainite, but I could find little further beyond that. If you guys have any better recommendations or recognize any of these steels as being the 'best' (when properly heat treated of course) do tell.

If the counterweight is possible, what material should be used for it?

For the stick itself, what material should it be constructed out of? I'd like it to be quite durable as well since a situation could arise where it might be used as a bludgeon without drawing the blade or as a back-up weapon.

And once everything has been decided, if there are any custom swordsmiths that excel in creating these types of weapons (in any country), don't be shy about recommending them.

Finally, my price range is $1000+ US, though I would like to keep it below $2000 US.

If I have missed any details or if you have any questions and/or comments about the sword stick, don't hesitate to post them. I'll try to answer them to the best of my ability.

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!
 
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United States

A swordstick may be illegal to carry in many jurisdictions as it is a concealed weapon, and is sometimes considered a disguised weapon. U.S. states with statutes that expressly prohibit the carrying of swordsticks include Arkansas (Ark. Code Ann. § 5-73-120(b)(3)(B)) and California (Cal Pen Code § 12020(a)(1). Other states may include swordsticks under the general ban on carrying a concealed weapon or a weapon disguised so as to conceal its true nature; an example of such a case can be found in State v. McCoy, 618 N.W.2d 324 (Iowa 2000).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swordstick#United_States
 
I wasn't aware of that, but I live in Canada, where something like a swordstick is only illegal if the blade is under 30 centimeters long.
 
Wrong. The longer a concealed blade is, the more illegal it is. Unsheathe that in public & see how long you stay free/alive.
moncton-shootings-report-20150116.jpg

As a British Commonwealth country next to the all powerful USA, your laws will have elements of both.
United Kingdom

The Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons) Order 1988, ISBN 0-11-088019-6 also made it illegal to trade in sword canes in the United Kingdom. However, antique swordsticks which are 100 years old or older are exempt.
 
I've looked through the list of prohibited/restricted weapons for Canada and found a section in Part 3 Prohibited Weapons that stated:

"10 Any device having a length of less than 30 cm and resembling an innocuous object but designed to conceal a knife or blade, including the device commonly known as the “knife-comb”, being a comb with the handle of the comb forming a handle for the knife, and any similar device."

Source: http://http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-98-462/FullText.html

I'm not sure if any US or UK laws apply here, but that was all I could find about prohibited weapons in Canada.

And I sincerely hope there will never be an occasion in which I need to draw the blade in public.
 
Asuryan said:
I wasn't aware of that, but I live in Canada, where something like a swordstick is only illegal if the blade is under 30 centimeters long.
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No sword canes allowed in Canada to the best of my knowledge. Or push daggers, switch blades, bali's or knuckle duster type knives.

Darcy

Edited to add, concealed weapons are illegal.......which a swordcane certainly is. Even a pocketknife could be regarded as a concealed weapon if the prosecution decided the intent was there. The laws in Canada are frustratingly vague and open to interpretation in many cases.
 
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A working cane will generally run between 32"-42" overall. I am 6'2" and prefer a 37"-38" cane. For a supportive cane, one is looking to have the grip at roughly hip joint height.

50" height is more of a walking stick length and what one might find for a "Blind Swordsman" Zatoichi sword stick with a blade itself of 30" or less. The grip about a foot or a bit less.

Cheers

GC
 
I know Skallagrim, who resides in Victoria, BC, has done a review of the Buffalo horn sword cane by Windlass Steelcrafts and there seemed to be no problem. However, I do remember reading somewhere that a concealed weapon was only permitted when you felt that law enforcement was insufficient to protect you from harm (on reasonable grounds of course), and while I can't perfectly recall which country that applied to, I have a feeling it was Canada. But then with the aforementioned '30 cm or greater' law about blade being concealed as innocuous objects, the two seem to contradict each other. So I decided to make an inquiry both to the police department and a lawyer to see what they say.
 
Ah, I see. Then it looks like it will be more of a walking stick than a supportive cane. I'll go fix that detail.

Thanks for pointing that out.
 
I was drawing up my own Sword stick earlier today and im Canadian how weird is that. Im not too worried of the legality because i dont plan on having it outside the house its really just a project for me. Check your visitor messages i left a link you might find useful.
 
Asuryan said:
I do remember reading somewhere that a concealed weapon was only permitted when you felt that law enforcement was insufficient to protect you from harm.
Click to expand...

don''t bother arguing with trolls, dude, it just wastes your time and derails your thread. Besides, Canada's carry laws are "You can carry it if you have a reason. Self defense is not a reason", and then further point to point issues of specific legality of various items.

Back on topic, are you wanting a full-length sword blade for any particular reason? Most (real) swordstick blades are short, in the two foot range. They were made for stabbing ruffians with bowie knives who might accost you in the alleyways.
But if you're wanting an actual sword, along the lines of Jude Law's in Sherlock Holmes, you should absolutely have some weight in the handle.

Go check out ScholaGladiatoria for more information about straight swords.
 
Professor_Jack said:
trolls,
Click to expand...
I'd be proud to be grouped with DEllis, who makes items of this quality
IMG_0216_zps0c9a8e34.jpg


Asuryan, self defence? Just get a (steel capped) hickory or blackthorn walking stick & claim you have occasional gout. No concealed weapon transgression involved
 
I prefer to give the benefit of the doubt. Though I do appreciate how their comments motivated me to research the legality a bit more thoroughly just in case.

I'm not sure, but I think I'm simply more comfortable in having a longer blade, even if it's fairly unorthodox.

Thank you for clarifying the earlier responses, and I'll be sure to brush up on my knowledge about straight swords before I make any more alterations.
 
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Never been called a troll before, Although I do run a bit on the vertically challenged side.;)

I always wanted to build a fancy Fuegen style push dagger, but they are verbodden in Canada.
Sorry for cluttering up your thread.
Darcy
 
DEllis said:
No sword canes allowed in Canada to the best of my knowledge.
Click to expand...

Sword canes are 100% legal to own in Canada. :)
Carrying it around town though is another matter...don't do it.

But buy all of them that you want.
Make a bunch and sell them if you like.
 
I'm still looking into the legal side of the things at the moment, but I personally prefer a bladed weapon over a blunt one.
 
No worries. So long as it doesn't get too out of hand and is still relevant to the topic, I don't mind.
 
Asuryan said:
I'm still looking into the legal side of the things at the moment, but I personally prefer a bladed weapon over a blunt one.
Click to expand...

Like I said, don't carry it around town.
Cops will absolutely not think it's cool that you're carrying one.

At home it's fine.
In the woods it's fine.
In town it's a weapon, and a concealed one at that.
You will have a very, very bad day.
 
I believe you're correct, but I'm currently in the process of confirming it with law enforcement and a legal expert just in case.
Agreed, I don't plan to stroll around with it on a regular basis. That's just asking for trouble.

Hah, I'd love to be able to forge - DEllis holds both my admiration and envy in that regard - but my kinesthetic learning is less than optimal, so I'll likely stick to designing/buying swords rather than making them.
 
Aye, I have a feeling they'll be less than thrilled to discover me carrying around a concealed 40 inch blade.
 
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