Tactical Flashlight as Defensive Weapon

My little bro's got a 6D cell maglite. I've noticed that holding it at the head around the button and swinging it causes the spring at the buttcap to squish down permanently and the light goes out. I've had to open the light up and pull the spring back to full height before I got the light going again... not something I want to do at night if I've decided I won't need to hold an eye closed cause I've got my maglite.

Anybody else had similar failures?
 
Guys,

It's great to have a healthy skepticism, all for it.


From Karl:
One other point about CJ's apparent lack of enthusiasm for lights is that his background in Special Forces is probably not conducive to lighting up enemy targets with white light behind the lines!!!! A good way to get "lit up" yourself! And if the enemy has lots of night vision equipment, active IR probably ain't a good idea, either.


I will say this.

We have been supplying our latest generation of WeaponLights to those boyz in the "Stans" - Millennium Universal Tactical Light Systems. Totally modular and can scale up and down the power scale.

Recent report back. They are using them extensively.

Why? The use of Night Vision Devices only does not provide enough positive ID of friend or foe.

Taliban forces look, dress, arm themselves and move about the terrain exactly as friendly indigenous forces.

Therefore, they are approaching targets (often on horseback), Light them em up with our higher intensity lights, then "Lighting them up again" if need be.

We also were told that the horses are reacting violently to the sudden surprise of light and tossing riders!!!

I cannot give you the exact forces involved, but you can probably figure that out for yourself. When this is over, I will get and post more explicit details.

We have just shipped a boat load of our higher intensity handheld to them (M6, M4 and M3T) to further exploit this tactic.

Lights, lasers, IR, optics, red-dots, whatever are all part of the matrix and must be intelligently applied to each and every particular operation.
 
Thanks for the info, Ken. That application makes sense. FWIW, I was stuck thinking more about "conventional warfare." However, I believe the Soviets did use large searchlights en masse during some of their assaults on the Germans in WWII...

As far as light and horses go, I once shone a Maglite into a horse's stall at our vet hospital, and the poor thing panicked and practically galloped right up the walls for several seconds. Never did THAT again!! I wonder if you could acclimatize them to bright light like you can do with gunshots and other loud noises?

Karl
 
Uhm, Karl, what were you doing in the horse stalls of OSU Vet hospital in the dark with a maglight?
 
Karl as far as your horse fetish.....

Anyway, I thought I post an exerpt from an email I recieved this morning. I cannot give you exact origin at this time.

_______

One of the equipment requirements that has developed from EF is the need for a General Purpose light as well as a fighting light...

The guys are constantly using ASP/Photon type lights for general use every night in the villages and out lying areas, they like the low signature LED and the low power consumption...

I would advise against the LEDs as gunlights, we did a user assesment, not enough light on target, and the OPFOR pointed out that it was not enough lumens to blind them but just enough to pinpoint the warfighters location...

Currently we are using, with great success in the caves, the Surefire M952SU (6V) and M962SU (9V), they come with an integral throw lever M1913 grabber, no need for a separate (see: costly) mount...

Surefire is making a separate LED head assembly for the M2/Z2/6P/M952 and most of their 6volt systems...

________
 
I work for SureFire so there is an inherent perceived bias (and there probably is!) and I endeavor to always keep that in mind.

That being said, I had dinner here at the Shot Show 2002 with one of the SureFire Institute’s adjunct instructors, Bill Murphy.

The following quoted by permission.

Bill has years of experience with Huntington Beach PD in patrol and SWAT operations.
He has been a Gunsite instructor for quite sometime, has his own quite successful firearms training business and has multiple shootings under his belt. Bill studies several martial arts and is well respected in the Southern California region.

Last year we gave Bill a 10X dominator for field-testing. It is our 2-stage, 60-500 lumen duty flashlight. He used to carry an SL-20.

He told me that for years he had an average of 15-20 reportable uses of force annually.
Bill is proactive to say the least. He is mild mannered, friendly, but will be there for fellow officers in a heartbeat.

Anyway, I was absolutely surprised when he told me that last year he had ZERO reportable uses of force…ZERO.

He said he had been in just as many similar situations, but EVERYTIME he illuminated with the higher output light, the situation moved in the lower use of force direction.
He absolutely attributed this zero number to the proper use of the 10X.

He stated the he has used his SL-20 many times as a defensive impact weapon, and was wondering how the 10X would fare in the same capacity. He said never perceived a situation that would justify using the 10X in that role, so he could not provide data.

Now there are many contributing factors to any given situation and use of force, but this is notable in my opinion.

I am going to give 10, 10X’s to him to distribute to his more active officers. In return, I am asking them to give me a month-by-month report of use of force activity. It will be easy to corrolate data and compare in to previous years.

Any other takers on this test and evaluation study, email me. Police officers only. I can only extend this offer to a limited number of officers.
 
I was fortunate enough to take a low-light Surefire class. It really opened my eyes.

I am a civilian in a cash-intensive business. I have been trying to think of ways to deter potential stalkers or criminals in close quarter situations. My thoughts - and please jump in - are that the pepper spray, knife, and gun that I carry wouldn't be able to help me in situations that require split-second reactions in close quarters. The best analogy I can think of is that: potential criminals that you could face are playing a game of rock, scissors and paper. If I draw my gun first - I lose and could be reported for exposing my weapon...good-bye CCW. I think the same goes with a knife. The pepper spray might not work since I could potentially affect myself in close situations. THe light seems like the best option since no one can sue you for exposing a flashlight nor using it. All I care about is escaping the situation.

Ken...do you agree? And what are your thoughts for civilians like myself? And more importantly, which light would you recommend? I currently carry the M3 combat - 220 lumens and thinking of upgrading to the Turbo head - all the time...even during the day. ANd who woudl be the best person or school to teach close quarters with the light?


Thanks
 
Light: The best option?

It is AN option. Every threat, every engagement is going to have its own unique set of circumstances and will require a unique solution.

Consider the following: The more “stuff” you are carrying the slower you will be to react to any given situation. It is called “Hicks Law”

See: http://www.usabilityfirst.com/glossary/main.cgi?function=display_term&term_id=266

More potential decisions require more skill and familiarity with your “stuff” and the combat you are engaged in.

The M3 standard head with the high power lamp assembly is an excellent light for street carry. The Turbo Head would require a more precise placement of the “hot spot” at close range since in “constrains” the light to a tighter pattern.

I do carry Turbo Heads in my vehicles, as situations on the road tend to develop and I may need to use the light vehicle to vehicle.

The best person to teach civilians? Couldn’t answer that question. You may go to:
http://glocktalk.com and go to the training/tactics forum aand ask the question. There are plenty of threads on training that is conducted around the country presented by professionals.
 
Thanks for the input.

I am impressed by your non-linear approach..especially with Hick's formula.

I am trying to find my way...I know in the back of my mind I have to keep it simple.
 
While I'm certainly no expert, I can testify from my own personal experiences to the distracting capability of intense white light.
When knoking on the door of a disturbance or confronting a suspicious individual on the street. I "accidentally" flash the suspect eyes and TRY to get into an advantageous position. The light is then swept across the suspects clothing and hands to look for weapons. Even if this doesn't blind the suspect, it has a tendancy to focus his attention AWAY from the weapon that you have discreetly drawn into a ready/retention position. Often times, they never even know that your weapon was out. Just my .02
 
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