"Tactical" Is Not a Purpose of Use and Represents an Undesirable Design Feature

What is "tactical?" It is the outdated, unrealistic concept of using a knife in a "self-defense" situation against another human being. This is an unrealistic concept given the proliferation of firearms, severe legal consequences of using a knife in self-defense, and rarity of situations where use a knife in self defense is even plausible.
I wonder how you come by such God-like knowledge to know what self-defense concepts are "outdated" and "unrealistic". And how do you know how many situations there have been throughout human history where it was "plausible" to use a knife for self-defense that you can refer to such situations as a "rarity"?

The following are just a few real-world cases of ordinary people using knives successfully to defend themselves that I found doing a simple Google search (I also have several regarding people using knives to defend themselves against dog attacks). I'm sure there have been countless other such cases throughout human history.

A 50 year old man saves himself during a beating by 4 attackers http://www.krem.com/news/crime/Three-people-stabbed-in-North-S-112404894.html

Teenager defends himself against 7 gang members during a beatinghttp://foothillsgazette.com/2012/01/20/man-20-dead-after-gang-confrontation/

Pregnant woman defends herself against a mugger http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/500867-Pregnant-woman-uses-knife-to-defend-herself

Teenager defends himself against two attackers http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/subway_slasher_self_defense_salvation_KwBL3aJKMxM9qe9hYP6EdJ

Female college student defends herself against a rapist http://www.wkyt.com/home/headlines/DNA-links-suspect-to-attempted-rape-near-UK-campus-182164671.html

I'm so glad that these people didn't consider using a knife for self-defense to be an "unrealistic concept".

As for the term "tactical", ya know, I manage to make it through my entire day without giving one second of thought to the subject. Frankly, I couldn't care less what words people use to describe various types of knives. I don't lose a moments sleep over the matter.
 
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To me, for a knife to be used in self defence, it would only have to have a grip that keeps your hand well. But let's not get into that! People want to be cool, and people like the marines or navy seals are cool for alot of guys. To me, a tactical knife usually has a black coating on the blade and black handle.

My first knife was actually a S&W ExtremeOps Tanto(what a piece of crap that is, at least the liner lock, locks to the right of the blade almost everytime). I really liked the knife, it's really light and it served me well for what I asked of it. But it's hardly different than a "normal knife" apart from the blade coated blade. I'll admit I got it when I was 14, but it was because it was cheap, and I had no taste in knives.

Now I have a Kershaw Clash part. serrated, Kershaw Volt plain, mora topq craftline stainless, opinel 8 and this knife I just finished a few days ago. And all my knife needs are satisfied apart from wanting some really short bladed knives. Maybe I'll have to get a mora carver in carbon.
 
I wonder how you come by such God-like knowledge to know what self-defense concepts are "outdated" and "unrealistic". And how do you know how many situations there have been throughout human history where it was "plausible" to use a knife for self-defense that you can refer to such situations as a "rarity"?

The following are just a few real-world cases of ordinary people using knives successfully to defend themselves that I found doing a simple Google search (I also have several regarding people using knives to defend themselves against dog attacks). I'm sure there have been countless other such cases throughout human history.

A 50 year old man saves himself during a beating by 4 attackers http://www.krem.com/news/crime/Three-people-stabbed-in-North-S-112404894.html

Teenager defends himself against 7 gang members during a beatinghttp://foothillsgazette.com/2012/01/20/man-20-dead-after-gang-confrontation/

Pregnant woman defends herself against a mugger http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/500867-Pregnant-woman-uses-knife-to-defend-herself

Teenager defends himself against two attackers http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/subway_slasher_self_defense_salvation_KwBL3aJKMxM9qe9hYP6EdJ

Female college student defends herself against a rapist http://www.wkyt.com/home/headlines/DNA-links-suspect-to-attempted-rape-near-UK-campus-182164671.html

I'm so glad that these people didn't consider using a knife for self-defense to be an "unrealistic concept".

As for the term "tactical", ya know, I manage to make it through my entire day without giving one second of thought to the subject. Frankly, I couldn't care less what words people use to describe various types of knives. I don't lose a moments sleep over the matter.
Well said! Much better than I could have said it. This is what I meant by people purposely denying logic because they can't see the use of it. How many people in the majority apply that same absence of logic to knives in general, and yet frustratingly use their keys or some other random object to open/cut things all every day?
 
I cut and prepped half my veggies and Salmon Tactically and the other half non Tactically.
The end results.... everything tasted equally delicious!!

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My apologies for not being clear, none of those features mentioned were what I as referring to in regards to military knives from the last couple of centuries. I thought referencing the Kabar would help, but it was insufficient. My point was how so very many versions of the Kabar (or whatever came before it) persisted - Buck, Case, Cattaraugus, others all had versions in WW2, all very similar i.e. specific required features for the tool to be accepted by the military. And that was here. Each country would have its own requirements & style. Backing up, swords and machetes from individual areas also tended to share very similar features. Despite the variations of Khukuris, they are quite recognizable by specific features. The Ontario machete looks like most other machetes. Comparing a machete to a trench-knife fits your gun comparison (or lack), but comparing machetes to machetes or "combat" knives to eachother does not. My point is that these knives had much more in common than just being knives. They are often hard to distinguish between.


As to the list of more recent "tactical" features, of course they are more recent. I mentioned that today we have more innovation and designs from various makers, some with important "tactical" application that also serve everyday uses. To criticize a knife for having such features and therefore being "tactical" seems ridiculous to me, which was the point of the list. Make sense?

I have tried to reply for four hours, with something that referenced twleve different folders, the advancements they represent, and the fact that other than the 110, they all appeared no earlier than 1979, but BF refuses to allow me to quick post, advanced post, or edit it into this one. And my point is mainly that a combat machete and a plain machete are the same thing, because there is no combat machete, just a machete.
 
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So, six pages later... Do we have a conclusion on what makes a knife "tactical"? Based upon judging at Blade, it appears that a tactical folder is a one hand opening and closing knife with a locking mechanism that uses steel, titanium, synthetic materials (or any combination) for the handle, has a non reflective blade (blasted, stonewashed, coated, acid washed, etc.), and a pocket clip. I honestly don't even know if a pocket clip is a requirement.

This is all by modern standards, of course. It seems that a lot of folders would fall under this category.

I can only assume that tactical fixed blades would present some of the same features.
 
I have tried to reply for four hours, with something that referenced twleve different folders, the advancements they represent, and the fact that other than the 110, they all appeared no earlier than 1979, but BF refuses to allow me to quick post, advanced post, or edit it into this one. And my point is mainly that a combat machete and a plain machete are the same thing, because there is no combat machete, just a machete.

Ahh, I see your point. Thank you. :thumbup: The "combat" tool is simply a tool put to use in yet another context, i.e. same tool as before the context. Prior to modern manufacturing, many combat tools were e.g. re-purposed hunting and agriculture tools. However, I am not sure that swords & daggers fit that...

And my sympathies in regard to the reference-posting issue :(

Since the folder-reference didn't work, could you describe it? For example, I listed features (primarily of modern folders) which many (including the OP) might consider characteristic of a "tactical" knife - single hand opening, lock-blade, coated blade, spring assist, etc. Would you reject that characterization? What features would you ascribe as characteristic of a modern "tactical" knife (assuming from a sincere maker)? Or you reject this use of "tactical" altogether?
 
Honestly... just got it today via the large online knife consignment site.
Got them to lower it from $129. to $90. New w/ case.
I'm actually pleasantly surprised how much I like it, the two thumb ramps + choil allow for nice choking up.
In general, I find the ergonomics superb and it's a relatively small folding knife designed and built very well.
BTW, it's not marketed as "Tactical" at all... it's marketed as the so called "Survival" model.
And it's as sharp as Sharks teeth.
But my current EDC of choice is 'this'.
 
I think tactical means more on the sharpened pry bar side than the self defense side. Tactical knives don't appeal to me because of this. They're all too thick in the edge to accommodate this feature.

Couldn't agree more. I am one of the people who, if anybody, would need a "tactical knife". After my early years I found that a "sharpened prybar" is the gold standard for me instead of the tacticool crap most privates run around purchasing. I need a sharp object that can literally be used as a prybar when needed. I stay away from the large majority of knives billed as "tactical" as it is, as previously stated, a marketing gimmick. Just my almost humble $0.02.
 
Knives should more times than not be a tool first and foremost. I'm not against their ability to be used as a weapon, my Recon 1 has saved my life and my fiance, but that was one day in the five years that I've been carrying it. I don't think you should necessarily base why you buy a particular knife on how tactically combative it is, but simply how well built of a tool it is.
 
it isn't that I reject them, it's that I think that their proliferation has just been way too recent. There are old-timers who had a few years in the military by the time these knives arrived, and some of them haven't retired yet. I'm going to leave out a lot of detail in hopes the reduced text will post. I own examples of many of these.

63-64 - Buck 110, made locking folders popular. extremely low numbers 1st couple of years, not very well made, back-lock lockback not very strong. 440C, a 'super steel' of the time
79 - Al Mar SERE, beefy folder by a Soldier for Soldiers. Brass liners, no clip, no one-handing. McBurnette/Fuller front-lock lockback. Better, Fuller introduced as custom work in 75.
81 - Spyderco Worker, first time we see all the tactical elements together. one-hand, clip, lock. small knife, slick stainless handles. C02 Mariner was the intro of modern serrations.
85 - Gerber LST, 1st production knife with FRN
around 85 - Gerber Folding Sprtsman II, Vascowear model, first concerted effort of tool steel in a folder, I believe. Gerber used M2 before in fixed blades.
early 80s - Gutmann Explorer Stubby. Seems to be the 1st liner lock in production. Bernard Levine does not like it and the low quality, but he references it as he had worked on the paperwork for importation for the company, IIRC. Old brass liner lock models still used a backspring (Cattaraugus 1906 patent). Walker developed in 80, trademarked 85 the lock with detent ball and no backspring. Gutmann did not credit Walker's TM.
90 - Spyderco Terzuola, 1st US liner lock, in 93-94, 1st production knife with G10. (also 1st US Spyderco, 1st US knife with ATS-34, and 1st Spyderco collab)
93? - P Sebenza, 1st production Sebenzas. Walker also worked on the frame lock, but Reeve made it what it is today. early ones had no clip
96 - Spyderco Military, 1st particle metallurgy production blade
97 - Meyerco Strut n Cut, 1st production assisted opening
90s - CRKT M16, 1st Carson Flipper production knife.

mostly, the 'tactical' knife and all the features developed from a bunch of knives not designed for the military, or those designed for the military that didn't have fighting in mind. I really put that mostly to Emerson in the 90s with the CQC series and his collab with BM. Other than that, the mechanisms and materials really fall to Al Mar, Sal Glesser, Blackie Collins, and men of that pedigree who didn't design or build anything that would have been used before Grenada, and most of what we call tactical today wasn't even around for Desert Storm. A very, very short military history.
 
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Are we saying that the term tactical is only directly related to and coinciding with military?
 
a definition posted in this thread mentions association with the military, and the ads aren't steering the perception away from that. For Those Who Serve, Black Class, OpFocus, and the background of the entirety of several brands is military association. I don't think there's anything too terribly wrong with it as advertising, as long as the designs remain sound and claims about how far the association goes aren't blown out of proportion.
 
It appears that there is direct relation to military, but the word is not leashed only to the military. From the definition below it also seems that the word tactical is more often than not related to air attacks using missiles.

Main Entry: tac·ti·cal
Pronunciation: \ˈtak-ti-kəl\
Function: adjective
Date: 1570
1 : of or relating to combat tactics: as a (1) : of or occurring at the battlefront <a tactical defense> <a tactical first strike> (2) : using or being weapons or forces employed at the battlefront <tactical missiles> b of an air force : of, relating to, or designed for air attack in close support of friendly ground forces 2 a : of or relating to tactics: as (1) : of or relating to small-scale actions serving a larger purpose (2) : made or carried out with only a limited or immediate end in view b : adroit in planning or maneuvering to accomplish a purpose.


Based on all this, I find today's use of the word tactical in advertising a ploy to draw the layman in because it sounds exciting. In the knife community, I believe the word tactical alludes to features found on the knife.
 
This post may generate a proverbial crap storm. If so, hold on to your umbrellas.

"Tactical" is not a philosophy or purpose of use. It is not a desirable design feature in a knife. What is "tactical?" It is the outdated, unrealistic concept of using a knife in a "self-defense" situation against another human being. This is an unrealistic concept given the proliferation of firearms, severe legal consequences of using a knife in self-defense, and rarity of situations where use a knife in self defense is even plausible. Let's be honest here: how many of you have ever, in any way, used a knife in a self-defense situation? Ten-percent of forum goers, perhaps? How many people in the general population, which consists overwhelmingly of civilian EDC and outdoorsman users, have ever used a knife in a tactical application? It is especially painful to watch knife reviewers critique/reject outstanding knives for the purpose that it is not sufficiently "tactical," especially when tactical uses are all but mythical.

Granted, there is a small, close-knit community of ACTIVE military and LEO that might, conceivably need a knife for "tactical purposes." But "tactical" applications of knives among members of the military is an extreme rarity; instead, knives are more akin to tools and sharpened pry-bars. This begs an obvious question: if "tactical" applications are incredibly rare, why do tactical design features dominate the modern folding knife industry? Why are design trends being pushed in a direction that perceive of knives not as EDC cutting tools, but as "black on black tactical hard use folder of ultimate doom?" If anything, "tactical" represents a placebo effect and source of ownership pride for many knife users, who value military aesthetics and life styles. Carrying a tactical knife, perhaps, is a way to feel connected to those aesthetics and the basic human instinct of "I'm armed, look out, bwahahahaa."

"Tactical" is a concept that has infected almost all modern production folders to one degree or another, with exceptions few and far between. Symptoms of "tactical" knife design disease are excessive jimping, excessively rough grip, unnecessarily thick blade stocks, impractical opening features, blade coatings on stainless steels, and a number of other features that defy any logical explanation. Further symptoms include militaristic marketing and branding, excessive LEO/military discounts, and what has become an arms race to produce the biggest and baddest 'hard use' folder. It has resulted in an increase in fatter, thicker, "hard use" knifes that weigh more, slice less easily, and strive to achieve the "tactical weapon" aesthetic.

I own and love dozen of knives that embrace the tactical aesthetic to one degree or another, but the features that make it "tactical" are usually the weakest aspect of the knife. For instance, the 810 Contego handles outdoor and EDC use like a boss (breaking down huge boxes, batoning wood, etc.) but suffers from awkward amounts of jimping. My large voyager slices like a dream, but has scales that obliterate slacks and light denim.

I'm not saying that tactical design features do not serve a purpose. Instead, I'm arguing that such features are over represented and driven by an artificial, philosophy/purpose of use. This philosophy, as I've tried to capture, is influencing modern folding knife design in unfortunate ways by promoting design features that do not meet the needs of the overwhelming majority of knife users. The Sebenza 25 is a shining example (wider blade stock, heavier, and more jimping than Sebenza 21).

At the end of the day, what should be done? Is tactical a long-lasting but passing fad? Will people ever grow out of the tactical aesthetic? If not, will it continue to influence and negatively impact knife designs?

Questions, questions. Coffee.

Knives have always been and will always be incredible close range defensive tools. The advent of locking one hand opening knives has made it possible for folders to join fixed blades in being fantastic defensive armament and given the laws and dress of our society these days folders are much easier to carry and conceal. You are arguing against one of the most practical and important uses of the knife since it's creation and there are thousands of years that testify against your disdain for it's defensive ability.
 
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