Take a look at this handle material. Bone? French Ivory?

B

Bob W

Joined
Dec 31, 2000
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From the photo this looks like French Ivory. Seller says it's bone.

$_57.JPG


$_57.JPG


Seems pretty obvious because of the bands. Am I mistaken?
 
No I don't think you are mistaken. It is definitely not Bone. At times you have to be careful because I have read that French Ivory did have actual finely ground Ivory added to the Celluloid - where as ordinary Celluloid of course did not have this.
Looking hard at the photos the scales are not Ivory either so you are bang on.
 
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Thanks. It's an auction issue, as you might have guessed. Seller describes it as, "Knife has exceptional Ivory colored (off white) bone handles, a special ordered item not typically used by the cutlery firm." Which wouldn't even normally matter, I generally trust the pictures more than the text, except in this case the knife is marked up about 400%. So I sent the seller a note and got a rather curt reply:

"Knife has exceptional Ivory colored (off white) bone handles, a special ordered item not typically used by the cutlery firm."

FYI, the handle material is French Ivory, and Bruckmann used it all the time.
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Ok Pal, I have no desire to educate you.
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I have no interest in taking it further, I just started to wonder if I was mistaken and therefor had made an ass of myself. Maybe I did anyway. ;)
 
IMO you did not make a donkey of yourself.

Based on the bands, it's French Ivory. I have several items made of French Ivory. They all have those bands.
 
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Double post. The server appears to be extra flakey tonight. They need to get new hamsters.
 
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Nice knife, but very common French Ivory IMO.

Jack
 
Bob W said:
Thanks. It's an auction issue, as you might have guessed. Seller describes it as, "Knife has exceptional Ivory colored (off white) bone handles, a special ordered item not typically used by the cutlery firm." Which wouldn't even normally matter, I generally trust the pictures more than the text, except in this case the knife is marked up about 400%. So I sent the seller a note and got a rather curt reply:

"Knife has exceptional Ivory colored (off white) bone handles, a special ordered item not typically used by the cutlery firm."

FYI, the handle material is French Ivory, and Bruckmann used it all the time.

Ok Pal, I have no desire to educate you.
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I'm glad he had no desire to educate you because of that pompous statement, me, in having no knowledge about "French Ivory" was motivated to find out what's going on here. So I thank you for this post because now I have learned a little bit more of this facet of the knife world.

OBTW; You did the right thing in calling him out. Someone like me would inevitably believe him. In his defense, maybe he's ignorant and too proud to understand the truth of his ignorance.
 
I'm not an expert in French Ivory, but I have several pieces in the collection, including some from Bruckmann.
In my experience, French Ivory all looks about the same, white or off-white with faint bands. From what I've read, it's made from celluloid although it doesn't seem to have the problems that celluloid is known for, namely shrinking and deteriorating. But wherever Bruckmann got their celluloid from, it all seems very stable.

It's easily distinguished from bone because of the bands. I don't have any elephant ivory (nor do I want any) to compare, but from photos the banding is quite different.
If someone were to mis-identify French Ivory, it would most likely be to confuse it with fine white Micarta.
 
French Ivory was used by a lot of the Sheffield cutlers, and so I come across a great deal of it. It's nothing like bone, and not much like ivory either in my opinion.
 
So is it correct that the faint banding is too uniform? I'm no expert in Ivory, but I have seen genuine Ivory with faint banding.
 
I have a small pen knife, marked Swan Works Cutlery, Germany with this type and look of scale.

If you want ivory info the scientists and lawyers look at, here is the link. http://www.fws.gov/lab/ivory.php

300Bucks

Addition to post.



Real elephant ivory, from recycled .45 grip aka 1950's.


Micarta
 
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Ivorine for my money. The true proof of the pudding is to drill or dremel it- it goes like a mini pyrotechnic display when its up to ignition temp.It pops and hisses and little projectiles fly off with smoke trails.How do I now this -by way of lengthy research and experimentation Oh and removing an Ivorine carving knife handle for a makeover.
Whilst it is an OK(cheap mass produced back in the day) substitute for bone or ivory -it is neither as attractive nor valuable IMO.
Also I doubt the seller would tout it as bone if he thought it might be ivory.
is this him?
IMG_7448A-596x436.jpg
 
Bob W said:
I'm not an expert in French Ivory, but I have several pieces in the collection, including some from Bruckmann.
In my experience, French Ivory all looks about the same, white or off-white with faint bands. From what I've read, it's made from celluloid although it doesn't seem to have the problems that celluloid is known for, namely shrinking and deteriorating. But wherever Bruckmann got their celluloid from, it all seems very stable.

It's easily distinguished from bone because of the bands. I don't have any elephant ivory (nor do I want any) to compare, but from photos the banding is quite different.
If someone were to mis-identify French Ivory, it would most likely be to confuse it with fine white Micarta.
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I wholeheartedly agree with Bob's statement above. I've used some old Schrade Cutlery Imitation Ivory Micarta which looks like a cross between the OP's material and actual ivory. It's only white like this for a short time, then starts to yellow and even develop surface checking and lines after it has set and dried for a while. That is a nice looking knife though, wouldn't mind adding one to my collection personally.
 
SOFileworks said:
That is a nice looking knife though, wouldn't mind adding one to my collection personally.
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Don't know exactly how many French ivory Bruckmanns are in the collection; I'd have to climb into the vault to find out. But there's one in the bottom left of this pic:
corkscrewBruckmanns.jpg


Other French ivory knives in the collection are some vintage Giesen and Forsthoff, one of them shown on the left in this scan:
Fobknives.jpg


I was photographing shields one day for an old forum topic and took this. Don't know for certain but this could be another Giesen:
Shield.jpg
 
Ok so they used french ivory.I forgive them because look at that horn!!
 
Funny thing, there is a bone Bruckmann listed right now, the only one I've ever seen from them. But the seller calls it European Stag. :rolleyes: :D
 
meako said:
Ok so they used french ivory.I forgive them because look at that horn!!
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Celluloid is most common from them, but they also used a lot of wood, cattle horn, and mother of pearl.
There is one material from them that I can't identify consistently. I think it's called "cattle horn celluloid," looks so much like horn except it has transparent/translucent areas. I should start a new topic about that stuff with some good pictures.

And for the record, I really like French Ivory!

There's one particular 'sneaky' thing that I've seen on one or two Bruckmann knives, handles that look like fancy celluloid but are actually clear celluloid with a paper(?) backing. Here's one (photo from ended auction):
$_57.JPG
 
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