Tantos, a serious discussion?

JDRanger said:
I have number of knives with tanto blades. Can someone explain how an American Tanto differs from other tanto blades? Or perhaps the unique design features of an American Tanto?

Here's what I have. Are they all American tanto's?
- Emerson CQC-15
- Buck Marksman
- HTM Axis
- Southern Grind Bad Monkey
- Brian Tighe and Friends Tighe Fighter (small)
- Tops/Buck CSAR-T

Ok, and I have to courage to admit I also have a Quartermaster Mr. Furley (which I now suspect may be a Chinese Tanto if there is such a thing (-:

Pre-thanks for the free education on this topic. And please don't bombard me with offers to buy my Mr. Furley.
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Ok first of all the term American tanto is abit of a misnomer because there are actually Japanese tanto blades that have this same tip. However the tantos with an abrupt change creating a hard secondary point is called "american tantos" and is what most people think of when they hear tanto.

This cqc7 is a perfect represent of this group.
EM7MBSFWb.jpg


The reason people wanting to be more specific call the above an American tanto is because most authentic traditional Japanese tantos have a much more gradual curve where the two edges come together, often so there is actually only one continual edge with only a soft secondary point.

As seen here.
TT650%20(7).jpg


Many people specify because they only dislike "American Tantos" and not the more gradual traditional style.
 
JDRanger said:
I have number of knives with tanto blades. Can someone explain how an American Tanto differs from other tanto blades? Or perhaps the unique design features of an American Tanto?

Here's what I have. Are they all American tanto's?
- Emerson CQC-15
- Buck Marksman
- HTM Axis
- Southern Grind Bad Monkey
- Brian Tighe and Friends Tighe Fighter (small)
- Tops/Buck CSAR-T

Ok, and I have to courage to admit I also have a Quartermaster Mr. Furley (which I now suspect may be a Chinese Tanto if there is such a thing (-:

Pre-thanks for the free education on this topic. And please don't bombard me with offers to buy my Mr. Furley.
Click to expand...
A tanto is a Japanese short sword/large knife that, across its long history, can be seen with many different blade styles. The "Americanized Tanto" is a knife in the style of Cold Steel's tanto with the two very distinct blade grinds and a pronounced secondary point/yokote:

CS-20T.jpg


A few of those knives you list aren't even tantos, they're drop points.
 
I use to not like a tanto style blade because I thought they were for showing off and the cool factor. Then, I bought and used one. Now, I've got several and realize they are good work blades with a purpose. Needless to say, I like them now.
 
I have a Mini Grip tanto and have come to really hate that thing---useful for nothing I need to do-----it just sits in the drawer now.

I'll probably never buy another tanto

Give me a classic drop point any day.
 
JDRanger said:
Thank you. Excellent explanation.
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My pleasure. The thing is that like I said there are actually Japanese traditional tantos that feature the "American Tanto" tip. In Japanese it is apparently called:

Kiriha Zakuri (Apparently an archaeic style, this is actually on a katana)
images


Differently, sometimes the more common (among traditional japanese knives) rounded Japanese tanto tip would become to look like an "American tanto" as the blade was used and the edge damaged and repaired. Swords that still had that rounded profile are called Fukura Tsuku meaning they have alot of meat left and the tip is still round, or literally "with fukura." As the edge is damaged and repaired and thus ground back the material here dissapears. This is called Fukura Karare, meaning the Fukura (meat of the blade at the tip of the tanto) Karare (has retreated and is becoming scarce). This over time makes the "Japanese Tanto" turn into an "American Tanto"

(Not my knowledge, quoted from a book, Encyclopedia of Japanese Swords. 'Nuff serious tanto discussion in this book.)
 
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I only have one tanto, but it's on a knife I like so much I have three of (plus a mini; BM Presidios). For my uses, I often miss a belly and prefer a drop point saber grind with no swedge if I am concerned about tip strength.

My tanto is partially serrated, and I usually use the area between the serations and plain edge as a secondary point (3rd on the tanto)... almost like a mini gut hook. Its actually that tanto knife that made me want to buy a 3rd Presidio with partial serations.
 
Hi! Currently I only own one folder with a tanto profile blade. It’s a ER BF 2. I like the tanto blade profiles, both the “original” JP version and the “Americanised” one. I stopped with this one because, from a practical use point of view, for my own EDC style and cutting needs, this is confined to some “niche” applications. I normally use this as a “working knife”, for all those maintenance/refurbishing jobs around the house when I have to cut things which lay flat (e.g. insulation sheets, plastic sheets, etc.), when I have to scrape something (e.g. labels, glue rests, lacquers, etc.) and I find it very useful as a kind of extra stout box-cutter. Sure it can handle some breakfast/lunch prep but, purely as fruit peeler and cheese slicer, it’s not my first choice :). Very nice aesthetically, though :thumbsup:.

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Lapedog said:
Honestly I am not sure where the idea that the tanto will penetrate better comes from, but I have some ideas.

Tantos have previously been advertized as a "knife that is good for stabbing". I believe the claim was and still is that their robust tip shape makes them able to stab viciously in combat without worrying about snapping the tip off. You know, incase your enemy is wearing body armour made out of car doors.

Somehow people read these claims and I believe misunderstood them and it has evolved into a sort of urban legend "tantos penetrate in some superior fashion."
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Don't believe it here ya go watch this.
 
d762nato said:
Don't believe it here ya go watch this.
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First off, let me say that Andy Demko makes fantastic knives. His AD-15 has to be handled to be believed how good a folding knife it is. Amazing knife.

However, that video is exactly what Lapedog was talking about.
 
d762nato said:
Don't believe it here ya go watch this.
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The rumor that was trying to be dispelled was that tantos tips generally penetrate better than others in a stab.

I was trying to say that the points "a tanto tip is more robust and better able to avoid damage in a stab" has some how got conflated into "tanto tips penetrate better (in a stab)"
 
Lapedog said:
The rumor that was trying to be dispelled was that tantos tips generally penetrate better than others in a stab.

I was trying to say that the points "a tanto tip is more robust and better able to avoid damage in a stab" has some how got conflated into "tanto tips penetrate better (in a stab)"
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It penetrates better when you are fighting the tin man from Oz... duh... Haven't you heard of the tin man army? And their nefarious leader, Oscar the Grouch?
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Remember that the tanto style tip was also used on the swords , where the stresses are much amplified due to leverage . And of course , the swords especially had to withstand powerful slashing blows against armor and contact with blocking weapons etc.
 
Scott321 said:
It penetrates better when you are fighting the tin man from Oz... duh... Haven't you heard of the tin man army? And their nefarious leader, Oscar the Grouch?
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Thanks for updating my terror watchlist. I'll add Oscar "the butcher of Sesame" Grouch to my most wanted list.

I have mostly been mostly on the lookout for people who are armouring themselves with car doors, as per Cold Steel's suggestion.
 
d762nato said:
Don't believe it here ya go watch this.
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Also upon rewatching the video it appears an honest mistake when the host did test where he puts the knives tip down into the vice and tries to bend them.

He marks the tips so the same ammount of tip is BELOW the vice lips "to make it fair." However as the knives were of different length the leverage applied was totally different.

Also I wonder if when some pulls on a knife they want to prove will bend might they subconciously pull abit harder?
 
I've had a few tanto's. The first was a CS Voyager that was a hand me down from a friend d back in my early teens. Mid 90s. That style of knife was maybe at its peak as far as popularity then. It was okay it had that damn half serrated blade. Again very popular at the time. Then later on I had a CRKT M16 that was nice. That point were the two blades meet was the most used part of the blade. I don't have any tanto's any more but I wouldn't mind one of those CRKT M16s special forces with the Veff serrations, but that would be just for personal defense. As for a work blade I carry an ESEE 4 and SAK Pioneer.
 
Lapedog said:
Also upon rewatching the video it appears an honest mistake when the host did test where he puts the knives tip down into the vice and tries to bend them.

He marks the tips so the same ammount of tip is BELOW the vice lips "to make it fair." However as the knives were of different length the leverage applied was totally different.

Also I wonder if when some pulls on a knife they want to prove will bend might they subconciously pull abit harder?
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Plus there was no accounting for steel composition, heat treat, blade thickness and height, or weight of the blade (during the drop test). Those tests weren't tests of three particular blade geometries, they were tests of three particular knives.

Finally, as far as tip breaking strength goes, you have to wonder whether that's actually all that important in a modern fighting knife compared to other attributes. Of course, this thread is about tantos as EDC ...
 
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