Taylor Brand Knives!!

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As a member that has seen many years of bashing here I am wondering why Taylor Brand Knives are accepted in the knife community? There has been many flaming threads about Chinese copies of many great makers but only reviews of Taylor Brand Knives! Maybe because Morgan bought the names of Schrade and such???? Why do so many of you think it is OK he pollutes the market but bash Down Under Knives or anyone that buys and reviews clones? Same thing. Because cost of Taylor Brand Knives makes the cost of China made knives OK? Think about your bashing next time and look at Taylor Brand Knives. Just because they are big doesn't mean they are any better for stealing designs than the Chinese companies you curse!!! When you buy Taylor Brand you are buying the same Chinese junk and Clones you complain about!!!
 
So what started this rant? Just seems out of the blue to me.


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As a member that has seen many years of bashing here I am wondering why Taylor Brand Knives are accepted in the knife community? There has been many flaming threads about Chinese copies of many great makers but only reviews of Taylor Brand Knives! Maybe because Morgan bought the names of Schrade and such???? Why do so many of you think it is OK he pollutes the market but bash Down Under Knives or anyone that buys and reviews clones? Same thing. Because cost of Taylor Brand Knives makes the cost of China made knives OK? Think about your bashing next time and look at Taylor Brand Knives. Just because they are big doesn't mean they are any better for stealing designs than the Chinese companies you curse!!! When you buy Taylor Brand you are buying the same Chinese junk and Clones you complain about!!!

I will never by a Chinese Shcrade or Imperial knife ( not made in America not a schrade )
But I have never seen a shady Chinese clone from Taylor brands ( maybe a few Smith & wesson versions of some knives )
They're well received because they're able to put out a decent product at a low price.
 
I got a Taylor made 8OT and a Imperial Stock man but I was given one and was sent one by accident by Amazon plus I got my money back. They been doing a yoemans job. Time will tell.
 
I think you'd have to provide examples of which patterns you are claiming they have duplicated.

If you are talking of traditional Old Timers and Imperials, I don't consider that stealing a design. They bought the name. They get to use the name. I've tried a couple of the Taylor-Schrade traditionals. They make a decent knife.
 
I think you'd have to provide examples of which patterns you are claiming they have duplicated.

If you are talking of traditional Old Timers and Imperials, I don't consider that stealing a design. They bought the name. They get to use the name. I've tried a couple of the Taylor-Schrade traditionals. They make a decent knife.

Me or the op ?
If it's me, I don't remember what they were but I remember a s&w knife or two that looked like other knives ( I think they have one that looks like the Gerber paraframe and another that looks like a crkt m16 )

If you were talking to the op, you won't get any examples because Taylor brands didn't rip off any designs ( I believe they had the rights to make a version of the crk survival knife if that's one he's thinking of )
 
No, I meant the OP.
 
Well Trentu...I personally don't accept Taylor Cutlery as the current manufacturer of Schrade Knives.There are a lot of small china brand slipjoints out there with decent blade snap.Some better edgework than others.But that's putting them against other brands from China leaving little room to discredit the small brands out there.Taylor's formula to Schrade Knives is very simple...

*They don't use real delrin as it's just some cheap plastic

*Their fixed blades aren't riveted...it's screws they use with a metal cap over the head with handle material play

*Poorly heat treated stainless steel and even worse to the fans of the Old Timer knives in the USA days that were in 1095 Steel.

*Their Sharpfinger design isn't accurate to the original at all

I could go on and on,but the point is there's the obvious why the current Schrade's are much cheaper.I see a good bit of the Taylor Cutlery's versions of Schrade models in flea markets...not retail stores.The only reason why some praise Schrade in it's form today is knife users who grew up at the birth of the modern knives era.That and a fixed blade acquired that's very cheap and looks similar to the original.Most likely people that never owned a Schrade knife in their lives.The brand was obsolete to them as Schrade reflected more of rural American taste rather than urban.
 
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So, let's separate a few things here.

a) Not everything Chinese-made is junk. China can produce quality product at many price points. China can also produce poorly built product at many price points. America is good at both, too. The blanket statement doesn't apply anymore, you have to look on a case by case basis; beyond that, where you spend your money becomes political, and that's all I'll say about that. :)

b) Let's compare your Taylor example with, say, a rant on Chris Reeve Knives (CRK) clones.

If I, as a Chinese manufacturer, make a knife that copies a CRK Sebenza, same size, same color, not same material, and even go as far as to put a CRK logo or "Idaho Made" on the blade tang? I've stolen a design I have no right to, put it on the market, and count on the CRK brand to drive my sales. That's theft of intellectual property, ethically wrong, and while every country has its own laws and regulations about intellectual property, patents, trademarks, et cetera - the point is, it's forgery. I have no right to the CRK name or likeness.

Why is Taylor brands different? Because they have the right to the intellectual property. From their website:
Taylor Brands owns and produces Schrade, Old Timer, Uncle Henry, and Imperial branded products, and are also licensed to produce multiple product lines under the world famous Smith & Wesson brand. In total Taylor Brands manufactures several hundred different products including fixed and folding knives, collapsible batons, tactical pens, handcuffs, tactical and survival accessories, and flashlights.
Taylor Brands owns the names Schrade, Old Timer, Uncle Henry, Imperial, and can legally produce Smith & Wesson knives. Not only the name, but the intellectual property - all the patterns and styles of knives those brands had produced, plus all the new knives they've put onto the market. At that point, while you could argue about the quality or consistency of any of those brands today, you can't say they've acted improperly. In fact, what they're doing is actually correct - own the rights to the things you want to sell.

c) I'll grant you, things are a bit muddier in the traditional knife market. Specific knife patterns (a "barlow", a "stockman", a "swayback", a "trapper", etc) have become generally accepted styles of knife through years and years of common production and are no longer protected, I believe, in the same way that modern blade products are. ("Years and years of common production" probably isn't a legal standard for losing legal protections, but I'm not a lawyer.) But modern inventions in knives come with patents, intellectual property rights, and the responsibility of rights owners to protect those rights.
 
Well Trentu...I personally don't accept Taylor Cutlery as the current manufacturer of Schrade Knives.

Since they own the name, what you accept is academic.



The only reason why some praise Schrade in it's form today is knife users who grew up at the birth of the modern knives era.

You want to be REAL careful with those generalizations. There's a couple of fellas in the Traditional Forum, including myself, who are in our 60's and have carried knives for over 50 years. We grew up with slipjoints. And we don't have a problem with the quality of the Taylor-Schrade traditional knives.

As for their steel, the Chinese alloy is almost identical in composition to the 440A used in US-Schrade Uncle Henry knives. And I've tested US Uncle Henry and Chinese Uncle Henry side by side cutting manila rope. The Chinese blades are at least as good as the US. Fit and finish is reasonably the same.

I don't deny that the US and Chinese versions of the knives are slightly different. I don't have a problem with that. The question in my mind is always, do they make a decent knife. IMO, they do.
 
You want to be REAL careful with those generalizations. There's a couple of fellas in the Traditional Forum, including myself, who are in our 60's and have carried knives for over 50 years. We grew up with slipjoints. And we don't have a problem with the quality of the Taylor-Schrade traditional knives.

I resemble that remark! :)
 
*Poorly heat treated stainless steel and even worse to the fans of the Old Timer knives in the USA days that were in 1095 Steel.

I have recently purchased over a dozen and a half Taylor Schrade fixed blades of both stainless and carbon steel so far the heat treatment and quality control has been very decent and on par or better than competing US brand knives.

And I am sorry to say my experience with some US manufactures hasn't been so pleasant. ESEE being one of them where I was shipped a defective second quality Izula 2 knife where they never did honor their "No Questions Asked Warranty" and replace the knife.
 
And you stress some good points Mike...here's my take on the original Schrade's and why it's so arguementive aside from steel quality,heat treatment,and materials.Schrade USA was more of a widely sold quality knife to more or less of the minimum to low wage American working class in rural areas.In comparison to buying a Case or Camillus knife.For sportsmen Schrade USA had the best designs so a full-tang knife was worth tucking away a few bucks here and there.Their warranty and promotions they did were just phenomenal.You could find them on a hanging rack in a mechanic's shop,feed and seed store,right beside the firearms in a display case in a hardware or general store...they were everywhere.I'll say this in rural parts of America and especially the south Schrade USA left a pretty big footprint.

Today the concept through Taylor Cutlery's offerings of Schrade is quite a bit different in my opinion.The knife functions but the honesty of China's cheapness factors can't meet with the original USA manufacturer's standards.You can find this function ranging from a knife made in Pakistan at a tourist attraction or in a bin at a flea market with similar quality.And like you stated the obvious as the old Schrade fans know that Taylor Cutlery legitimately owns the rights to the names and patterns.And that facsimile helps them sell.
 
I have recently purchased over a dozen and a half Taylor Schrade fixed blades of both stainless and carbon steel so far the heat treatment and quality control has been very decent and on par or better than competing US brand knives.

And I am sorry to say my experience with some US manufactures hasn't been so pleasant. ESEE being one of them where I was shipped a defective second quality Izula 2 knife where they never did honor their "No Questions Asked Warranty" and replace the knife.

I'd like to hear more about your experience with ESEE. A new thread would probably be more appropriate. Sorry, not trying to derail the OP, just browsing the new threads and this caught my eye.

To stay on point to the topic at hand Schrade's newest fixed blade offerings seem to get very good reviews, I'm not familiar with their folding knives.

ETA- I'm not familiar with their fixed blades either, should have said I'm not familiar with their folding knives reputation. I've been reading up a lot on traditional knives lately.
 
Well Grogimus...here's an example of flaws I saw with the 885UH by Uncle Henry and 8OT of Old Timer...

*Both had some really deformed handle center pins that felt sharp.Definitely a Dremel job to file all that out

*Sheepsfoot and Spey blade were really thinned down to a flimsy level versus the original models

*Handle material as I stated I believe to be plastic.The imitation stag look on the 885UH was just awful.It looked like a few worm grooves with a flash of brown spray paint across it.Pretty crooked Uncle Henry shield.

*Somewhat of a fairly wider scale and bolsters resulting in a very subtle stockman shape versus the finer machining work of the originals.Looks chunkier versus the sleekness of the old Schrades.

*I found the stainless steel to be very soft/poorly treated in my opinion

Beyond that good snap to it and reasonably sharp though I could praise Rite Edge or Kissing Crane alone on these positive traits found on a lot of Chinese brands.
 
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The sharpfinger was mentioned, so I just thought I'd say this.
If I was gonna buy a Chinese knife in the sharpfinger pattern I'd buy an occoe river brand from frost cutlery ( I handled one and it was razor sharp with a nice mirror finish to the blade ,and is available in a wide variety of handle materials and colors including stag ) I expect that the practical quality is not much different than the Taylor brands Shcrade, but it has a nicer finish ( pretty sure they're not mirror polished ) and has more options to choose from.
 
Well Grogimus...here's an example of flaws I saw with the 885UH by Uncle Henry and 8OT of Old Timer...

*Both had some really deformed handle center pins that felt sharp.Definitely a Dremel job to file all that out

*Sheepsfoot and Spey blade were really thinned down to a flimsy level versus the original models

*Handle material as I stated I believe to be plastic.The imitation stag look on the 885UH was just awful.It looked like a few worm grooves with a flash of brown spray paint across it.Pretty crooked Uncle Henry shield.

*Somewhat of a fairly wider scale and bolsters resulting in a very subtle stockman shape versus the finer machining work of the originals.Looks chunkier versus the sleekness of the old Schrades.

*I found the stainless steel to be very soft/poorly treated in my opinion

Beyond that good snap to it and reasonably sharp though I could praise Rite Edge or Kissing Crane alone on these positive traits found on a lot of Chinese brands.

Well Frotier..

I understand what you're saying, but I'm unclear why you addressed those points to me specifically and I don't want to speculate. If it's simply for my edification then I appreciate that.
 
It has taken some time since Taylor Brands purchased the Schrade and Camillus trademarks, but they are having produced some pretty good knives for the money these days overall. I haven't purchased any yet, but I have no objections any more to doing so if I feel the knife will do what I need it to do. But I do tend to stick to a few brands overall and those aren't one of them even if they cost a bit more.

The point above about Frost Cutlery (Chattanooga) makes me wonder. I don't see why Frost slip joints aren't just as good as Rough Riders or Colt slip joints, but the Rough Riders and Colt's seem to be better overall. These folks are all pretty connected to each other in the industry.
 
@Frotier76 - Oh, sure; I didn't address the changes in Schrade over time, from Imperial Schrade (USA) until the factory closed in 2004 (thanks, Wikipedia) and the subsequent purchase and re-entry of the brand under Taylor Brands (China).

My personal opinion, I don't think Taylor is trying to hit that high quality mark that Schrade USA had (note - I've never had or held a Schrade, of either pedigree, I'm reading into a lot of forum posts. Take this all with a HUGE grain of salt). If Schrade's original mission was to get a good knife to the "minimum to low wage American working class in rural areas" - I'm going to shorten that to "everyman" - then I suspect Taylor's target market is largely the same "everyman". It is a different beast, a knife produced in a different factory by different workers with different experiences under different conditions. Is it in the spirit of Schrade? Possibly. Is it the same product? Doubt it.

Clearly, though, you've had some poor experiences (or poor comparisons) with the Taylor brand Schrade knives. I'm sorry you had that experience. Life is too short to go through it with a rickety knife.
 
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