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Teach Me About Scandinavian Knives?
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there are several features which depict a scandi knife the most prevalen being the scandi grind (single bevel) this makes the knife easy to shapen b placing the bevel flat against the stone, and allows the knife to get ridiculously sharp. this sharp edge is great for slicing and woodworking which what makes it so popular among bushcraft people...because these knives are made for slicing and ctting (specifically) they are typically thin and some (not me) feel like the lack the durability that a good outdoor knife should have among the mpre popular of these designs are the swedish mora...these knives come on a variet of styles and steels and handle materials while moras are very ugly to look at a good carbon steel mora can be had for around 10.00 US.
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I have no connection other than being a one time very satisified customer. Perhaps two time soon.
I have no connection other than being a one time very satisified customer. Perhaps two time soon.
Gossman Knives
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They do well for bushcraft/carving. There is a good article in the new Tactical Knives magazine about these Scandinavian knives.
Scott
Scott
the wide bevel, as seen on many traditional woodworking tools (planes, chisels, drawknives) is particularly good at producing a very controlled cut, in terms of depth.
this means that a scandi ground knife can make the most delicate little shavings that will get a fire going in now time. it also means that a scandi is great for carving things like trap triggers and notches, and for any number of other carving related camp/survival chores.
alot of people are afraid to trust a scandi as a hard use tool, perhaps because it lacks a full tang and because of the relatively thin blade stock. it is true that a scandi is not the best candidate for splitting logs with a baton or chopping down a tree to make shelther (though it is certainly possible to do either), a scandi is hard to beat for pure cutting power. if you want a scandi grind but in a more robust knife that can handle abuse/rough use you might want to look into custom scandis, like the koster bushcraft or the skookum bush tool. these have thicker blade stock, "better" steel, and full tangs.
another concern that some have is the grip of the wood handled knives, as the handle shape is easy to slip around, and in stabbing scenarios it is easy for the hand to slip up onto the blade. the plastic handled versions have a sort of lip at the base of the blade and more contoured handles, to provide a more positive grip.
even considering the bad points, a mora is a terrific knife at a very low price. if you get a mora and decide you like it but want to upgrade, or decide you don't like it at all, you are still only out $10-15. moras also make terrific backup knives if you decide to upgrade to a more robust knife. alot of people include a mora in their trio (chopper, fixed blade, folder) because it is such a great slicer/carver and they have a chopper to rely on for the heavier tasks.
this means that a scandi ground knife can make the most delicate little shavings that will get a fire going in now time. it also means that a scandi is great for carving things like trap triggers and notches, and for any number of other carving related camp/survival chores.
alot of people are afraid to trust a scandi as a hard use tool, perhaps because it lacks a full tang and because of the relatively thin blade stock. it is true that a scandi is not the best candidate for splitting logs with a baton or chopping down a tree to make shelther (though it is certainly possible to do either), a scandi is hard to beat for pure cutting power. if you want a scandi grind but in a more robust knife that can handle abuse/rough use you might want to look into custom scandis, like the koster bushcraft or the skookum bush tool. these have thicker blade stock, "better" steel, and full tangs.
another concern that some have is the grip of the wood handled knives, as the handle shape is easy to slip around, and in stabbing scenarios it is easy for the hand to slip up onto the blade. the plastic handled versions have a sort of lip at the base of the blade and more contoured handles, to provide a more positive grip.
even considering the bad points, a mora is a terrific knife at a very low price. if you get a mora and decide you like it but want to upgrade, or decide you don't like it at all, you are still only out $10-15. moras also make terrific backup knives if you decide to upgrade to a more robust knife. alot of people include a mora in their trio (chopper, fixed blade, folder) because it is such a great slicer/carver and they have a chopper to rely on for the heavier tasks.
I would like some more input here also.
I just got a couple moras recently, a regular carbon steel and a laminated steel. The carbon steel seems to have some chips in the edge after carving some (dirty) oak. Am I being too rough on the knife or is it the dirt or something else? I haven't used the laminated one much yet, but I think it may have a little tougher edge.
I just got a couple moras recently, a regular carbon steel and a laminated steel. The carbon steel seems to have some chips in the edge after carving some (dirty) oak. Am I being too rough on the knife or is it the dirt or something else? I haven't used the laminated one much yet, but I think it may have a little tougher edge.
There are many kinds of Scandinavian knives, but I assume you're thinking about the small to medium puukko-styled knives.
One reason why some people like them is their history - the original, basic "Scandi knife" design is perhaps the oldest knife design still in daily use. It's a design that has worked for hundreds and hundreds of years, predating such things as the Napoleonic Wars and the "discovery" (because Vikings had already been there much earlier) of America by continental Europeans. It's a simple, utilitarian design with no unnecessary fluff foisted upon it.
Another reason to like them is their efficiency at what they were intended to do. The small to medium Scandi is a general use utility knife, designed to be easy to keep sharp and to be very good at the main task of any knife, which is to say, cutting. The small to medium Scandis like puukkos (actually only Finnish knives are rightly puukkos - Swedish and Norwegian knives don't count, although they are very similar, and adhere to the same ancient design) are particularly excellent in wood working, in which I would say they are the best knife for the task. Due to the grind, the cuts are very accurate and straight, and on the other hand, it's easy to make curls out of wood with such a grind. In addition to wood working, they were intended for hunting use, and even for daily use as an eating utensil. They were never intended to be "tactical" in any way, nor intended as weapons, which means any additions detrimental to the performance of the knife in precise cutting work such as finger guards and choils are typically left out. Don't be afraid of the lack of a guard, though - if you feel like you might slip your fingers on the blade, just a) grip harder, or b) support your grip on the pommel of the knife when stabbing or similar.
The main downside of the design is that it's not a prybar - you shouldn't baton, chop and pry with these things and expect the blade to never fail, because sooner or later, if you're even the least bit unlucky or less than skilled, it will fail. Sure, you can do it, but if the knife breaks, don't be surprised. These things aren't meant for that kind of abuse. For chopping and such things, Scandinavians carried (and mostly still do) hatchets and heavy axes - except for those living in Lapland, who often opted for a long chopping knife called the leuku in modern Finnish. If you have a good hatchet and a good puukko with you, you're well covered.
Another "downside" is that Scandinavian knives are typically not made of ye supersteel of the day, but rather tried and true high carbon steels, properly heat treated. Some makers do use stainless steels in some of their knives, but you're not going to see S30V or anything like that. Personally, I don't find this to be a downside at all. Trying to field sharpen some of these supersteels is like trying to make a reindeer wear a condom, frustrating.
There is very little practical difference between the knives made in different Scandinavian countries. Most non-Scandinavians would never notice any difference in them.
As for the brands, there's pretty much the same differences as in anything: there's the massproduced cheap stuff, and then there's the handmade custom stuff in the other end. Swedish Mora knives are mass-produced but very popular due to their absurdly low price (over here, it's anything from 1 - 10 € depending on the model and the sale of the day) and yet decent quality. In Finland, Marttiini makes very inexpensive yet decent puukkos (and other knives, too). Then there's a large number of other names, and ultimately the real makers, mastersmiths that make knives to order, entirely by hand, such as Hankala and Kaartinen. The better handmade Scandi knives are nothing short of fantastic cutting instruments.
Now, there are of course other Scandinavian knives that are less traditional and perhaps less known (or more, depending on who you ask). There are the designs of Fällkniven, there are modernized puukkos like the M.95 and M.07 Sissipuukkos, and a lot of other stuff.
If I had to describe Scandinavian knives in just one sentence, it might be the following: "Scandinavian knives are traditional knives that excel in the one thing knives were originally intended to do, cutting stuff." They are mostly excellent knives for cutting, but not so good at chopping, prying and batoning. Perhaps it is somewhat useful information that even though I own several Busses and other such heavy duty knives, and indeed like them very much, I still often carry a basic Scandinavian knife, typically a handmade Tommipuukko.
One reason why some people like them is their history - the original, basic "Scandi knife" design is perhaps the oldest knife design still in daily use. It's a design that has worked for hundreds and hundreds of years, predating such things as the Napoleonic Wars and the "discovery" (because Vikings had already been there much earlier) of America by continental Europeans. It's a simple, utilitarian design with no unnecessary fluff foisted upon it.
Another reason to like them is their efficiency at what they were intended to do. The small to medium Scandi is a general use utility knife, designed to be easy to keep sharp and to be very good at the main task of any knife, which is to say, cutting. The small to medium Scandis like puukkos (actually only Finnish knives are rightly puukkos - Swedish and Norwegian knives don't count, although they are very similar, and adhere to the same ancient design) are particularly excellent in wood working, in which I would say they are the best knife for the task. Due to the grind, the cuts are very accurate and straight, and on the other hand, it's easy to make curls out of wood with such a grind. In addition to wood working, they were intended for hunting use, and even for daily use as an eating utensil. They were never intended to be "tactical" in any way, nor intended as weapons, which means any additions detrimental to the performance of the knife in precise cutting work such as finger guards and choils are typically left out. Don't be afraid of the lack of a guard, though - if you feel like you might slip your fingers on the blade, just a) grip harder, or b) support your grip on the pommel of the knife when stabbing or similar.
The main downside of the design is that it's not a prybar - you shouldn't baton, chop and pry with these things and expect the blade to never fail, because sooner or later, if you're even the least bit unlucky or less than skilled, it will fail. Sure, you can do it, but if the knife breaks, don't be surprised. These things aren't meant for that kind of abuse. For chopping and such things, Scandinavians carried (and mostly still do) hatchets and heavy axes - except for those living in Lapland, who often opted for a long chopping knife called the leuku in modern Finnish. If you have a good hatchet and a good puukko with you, you're well covered.
Another "downside" is that Scandinavian knives are typically not made of ye supersteel of the day, but rather tried and true high carbon steels, properly heat treated. Some makers do use stainless steels in some of their knives, but you're not going to see S30V or anything like that. Personally, I don't find this to be a downside at all. Trying to field sharpen some of these supersteels is like trying to make a reindeer wear a condom, frustrating.
There is very little practical difference between the knives made in different Scandinavian countries. Most non-Scandinavians would never notice any difference in them.
As for the brands, there's pretty much the same differences as in anything: there's the massproduced cheap stuff, and then there's the handmade custom stuff in the other end. Swedish Mora knives are mass-produced but very popular due to their absurdly low price (over here, it's anything from 1 - 10 € depending on the model and the sale of the day) and yet decent quality. In Finland, Marttiini makes very inexpensive yet decent puukkos (and other knives, too). Then there's a large number of other names, and ultimately the real makers, mastersmiths that make knives to order, entirely by hand, such as Hankala and Kaartinen. The better handmade Scandi knives are nothing short of fantastic cutting instruments.
Now, there are of course other Scandinavian knives that are less traditional and perhaps less known (or more, depending on who you ask). There are the designs of Fällkniven, there are modernized puukkos like the M.95 and M.07 Sissipuukkos, and a lot of other stuff.
If I had to describe Scandinavian knives in just one sentence, it might be the following: "Scandinavian knives are traditional knives that excel in the one thing knives were originally intended to do, cutting stuff." They are mostly excellent knives for cutting, but not so good at chopping, prying and batoning. Perhaps it is somewhat useful information that even though I own several Busses and other such heavy duty knives, and indeed like them very much, I still often carry a basic Scandinavian knife, typically a handmade Tommipuukko.
What you're seeing there is rather typical of Moras, being that they are cheaply mass-produced, disposable knives. It's not you, it's the knife. What you can do is either beat on it for a while until the original edge is all gone and then sharpen it, or sharpen it right now profusely until you get a better edge out. When you buy Moras, you're playing lottery with regard to the factory edge - it may be sharp as a razor, and otherwise ok too, or it may be utter crap that chips into pieces once you touch anything harder than your hair with it, and requires extensive sharpening to get a good working edge out of. Moras are like that. To date, though, I have not ever seen a Mora that you couldn't put a good edge on - sometimes it just takes a lot of work.
Hard to add anything to Elens excellent post. :thumbup:
So, instead; here's a couple of different (but typical), puukko's from my collection:
(from left to right)
1. Sissipuukko (Ranger Puukko). A military design, some puukko-like qualitys, but more a soldier's tool than a traditional puukko. Can easily be used for batoning (unlike any other in this collection). Not that great for whittling, but an excellent general outdoors knife for those who like using a puukko to do a hatchet's job
2. A traditional puukko by Pentti Kivimäki, Kauhava. Straight, about 4 inch long black sided carbon steel blade, and a classic curly birch handle. My personal favourite.
3. A small leuku that I bought from the maker himself when I was a kid (cant recall the name of the smith). Even though this one's pretty small for a leuku, it has all the characteristics of a typical leuku; blade- and handle shape, the sheath, and the sharpening angle.
4. Roselli "Grandfather". A small puukko designed mostly for whittling and all sorts of small tasks. Not a great knife for outdoors, but excellent for small tasks around my summer cottage, such as whittling tinder when I'm warming up the sauna etc. (btw, I bought this one for 10 euros. It was pretty beaten up, but I managed to fix it. The sheath was totally busted, so the one in this picture is handmade by... me! )
5. A cheapo Marttiini. Costs about 25 euros, and is actually a damn good basic puukko. Nice carbon steel blade, good grip, and a classic thick leather sheet.
So, instead; here's a couple of different (but typical), puukko's from my collection:
(from left to right)
1. Sissipuukko (Ranger Puukko). A military design, some puukko-like qualitys, but more a soldier's tool than a traditional puukko. Can easily be used for batoning (unlike any other in this collection). Not that great for whittling, but an excellent general outdoors knife for those who like using a puukko to do a hatchet's job
2. A traditional puukko by Pentti Kivimäki, Kauhava. Straight, about 4 inch long black sided carbon steel blade, and a classic curly birch handle. My personal favourite.
3. A small leuku that I bought from the maker himself when I was a kid (cant recall the name of the smith). Even though this one's pretty small for a leuku, it has all the characteristics of a typical leuku; blade- and handle shape, the sheath, and the sharpening angle.
4. Roselli "Grandfather". A small puukko designed mostly for whittling and all sorts of small tasks. Not a great knife for outdoors, but excellent for small tasks around my summer cottage, such as whittling tinder when I'm warming up the sauna etc. (btw, I bought this one for 10 euros. It was pretty beaten up, but I managed to fix it. The sheath was totally busted, so the one in this picture is handmade by... me!
)5. A cheapo Marttiini. Costs about 25 euros, and is actually a damn good basic puukko. Nice carbon steel blade, good grip, and a classic thick leather sheet.
crossada
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Elen, i too have a handmade tommi knife from kellam. it doesn't have the traditional single bevel like was mentioned. rather it has a very slight hollow grind with a small secondary bevel. is this normal for a tommi knife or just the kellam versions? also do you think it makes for a better overall utility knife for cutting many things instead of just wood like the true scandi grind?
btw thanks for all the info, it is very helpful.
btw thanks for all the info, it is very helpful.
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I really like scandinavian blades myself and that is growing daily. I use some that I have made from Lauri blades around my workshop and for most tasks they work awesome. I also love the fact that all I have to do is run it across the buffer a couple of times and it's shaving sharp again!!
Nice photo and blades there, attej! :thumbup: That Kivimäki is a pretty one. Got to ask you one question about the Sissipuukko, though. 
Tell me, does it have a very unevenly ground tip? That is to say, a tip that looks a little "one-sided", like this: /I
I'm not generally familiar with the knives Kellam has, so it's hard to say. But it is not at all unusual to have Scandi knives that have a secondary, very small bevel. They are especially typical in Scandi-style knives made outside of Scandinavia.
Often times, you will see people saying that there is no such thing as a "real" Scandi grind, and that all Scandi knives have a small secondary bevel. It is noteworthy that almost never are the people who say this actually Scandinavian, much less Scandinavian knifesmiths. The matter of fact is that a whole lot of Scandi knives have the "real" Scandi grind, with no secondary bevel, or "microbevel", or whatever one wishes to call it. Factory mass-produced ones are the most likely to have a secondary bevel, while handmade ones seldom have them. And even when there's a secondary bevel on a handmade one, it's not always on purpose - sometimes it's an accident. So, it's "normal" as in "it isn't unusual", and yet it is "not normal", as in "it is not the rule."
The secondary bevel would make the edge somewhat stronger, and make it resist chipping from impact and such things better - on the other hand, it is detrimental to cutting performance. In practice, it doesn't matter too much. Freehand sharpening a Scandi grind will change the edge anyway, and you'll often get a convex edge on it.
Often times people (who aren't Scandinavian) say that a full flat grind is superior to a Scandi grind in wood working. Notably often these people don't do wood work for a living or even a hobby, although some do. What these people miss is that there is a purpose beside making the blade easier to manufacture in the way the Scandi grind's bevel "abruptly" terminates, like a saber grind would. The purpose is both making the blade a little stronger, and also "curling" thin pieces of wood better - when the knife cuts deep enough for the wood to hit the end of the bevel, the thicker spine pushes the wood away and curls it. Sometimes this is useful. More often it is not, but hey.
Generally, I'd rather go with a real Scandi grind without a secondary bevel for general utility. No matter what kind of a secondary bevel one puts on a Scandi, it's not going to baton or pry well - the knives aren't thick enough for that, except the leukus, väkipuukkos, hukaris and such.
Tell me, does it have a very unevenly ground tip? That is to say, a tip that looks a little "one-sided", like this: /I I'm not generally familiar with the knives Kellam has, so it's hard to say. But it is not at all unusual to have Scandi knives that have a secondary, very small bevel. They are especially typical in Scandi-style knives made outside of Scandinavia.
Often times, you will see people saying that there is no such thing as a "real" Scandi grind, and that all Scandi knives have a small secondary bevel. It is noteworthy that almost never are the people who say this actually Scandinavian, much less Scandinavian knifesmiths. The matter of fact is that a whole lot of Scandi knives have the "real" Scandi grind, with no secondary bevel, or "microbevel", or whatever one wishes to call it. Factory mass-produced ones are the most likely to have a secondary bevel, while handmade ones seldom have them. And even when there's a secondary bevel on a handmade one, it's not always on purpose - sometimes it's an accident. So, it's "normal" as in "it isn't unusual", and yet it is "not normal", as in "it is not the rule." The secondary bevel would make the edge somewhat stronger, and make it resist chipping from impact and such things better - on the other hand, it is detrimental to cutting performance. In practice, it doesn't matter too much. Freehand sharpening a Scandi grind will change the edge anyway, and you'll often get a convex edge on it.
Often times people (who aren't Scandinavian) say that a full flat grind is superior to a Scandi grind in wood working. Notably often these people don't do wood work for a living or even a hobby, although some do. What these people miss is that there is a purpose beside making the blade easier to manufacture in the way the Scandi grind's bevel "abruptly" terminates, like a saber grind would. The purpose is both making the blade a little stronger, and also "curling" thin pieces of wood better - when the knife cuts deep enough for the wood to hit the end of the bevel, the thicker spine pushes the wood away and curls it. Sometimes this is useful. More often it is not, but hey.
Generally, I'd rather go with a real Scandi grind without a secondary bevel for general utility. No matter what kind of a secondary bevel one puts on a Scandi, it's not going to baton or pry well - the knives aren't thick enough for that, except the leukus, väkipuukkos, hukaris and such.
crossada
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thanks for the info Elen
i have two tommi knives from the kp line both made by Olavi who is now retired. the bigger model (major) i have has to be 1/4" or better. i would never abuse this knife but i'm sure it could take some batoning if needed.
i have two tommi knives from the kp line both made by Olavi who is now retired. the bigger model (major) i have has to be 1/4" or better. i would never abuse this knife but i'm sure it could take some batoning if needed.
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Scandinavian knives rock. My first knife was a "kit" - made from a puukko blade, zero-edge ground. I added a brass ferrule and a birch handle - still have it. I used the heck out of it for years in the shop before finally switching to a different knife. At one point, I thought it was the crazy "mystery" scandinavian steel it was made from....but that knife cut and cut and cut. Then I made a scandi of my own (different steel) and it cut great too.
So, yes, I'm a convert to scandi grinds. But you need to use the right steel, the right thickness and so on. They're not for everybody, but I would say the majority of knife users would be able to use and maintain them easily.
Why does the scandi grind cut wood so well?
leverage
I haven't had issues with batoning them either. Again, steel choice and proper heat-treat are key.
So, yes, I'm a convert to scandi grinds. But you need to use the right steel, the right thickness and so on. They're not for everybody, but I would say the majority of knife users would be able to use and maintain them easily.
Why does the scandi grind cut wood so well?
leverage
I haven't had issues with batoning them either. Again, steel choice and proper heat-treat are key.
thanks for the info Elen
i have two tommi knives from the kp line both made by Olavi who is now retired. the bigger model (major) i have has to be 1/4" or better. i would never abuse this knife but i'm sure it could take some batoning if needed.
I'm sure it could! My thickest Tommi that I actually carry is under 3 mm, or about 0,12 inches thick. 1/4 or 0,25 inches is most unusually thick for a Scandi style knife, even for a chopping one like a leuku. Sounds like your Tommi is "americanized", with a thicker spine, and perhaps it has a near full tang, too? That would make it much stronger, but also much heavier and less acute a cutter. That said, it's an interesting concept - I've long wanted to see a full-tang puukko with g-10 handles and INFI as steel.
For me, the down side is that they don't cut nearly as well as a flat ground knife that has the same width and thickness. The "scandi" grind is basically a saber grind with no secondary bevel. It is very easy to sharpen, which I suspect contributes to it's popularity.
crossada
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the major is a winter war tommi so maybe it is more of a combat knife but i assure you it cuts just fine. another cool thing about it is that it tapers from the high center ridge line back to the spine to reduce weight. it gives it a neat look imo. kellam sent me a vhs tape of the kp forge making these knives and i would say greater than 75% of the knife was made with a hammer
if anyone would like to see the tape i could send it to you. it is probably 20 mins. or so long. i don't care to get it back.
if anyone would like to see the tape i could send it to you. it is probably 20 mins. or so long. i don't care to get it back.
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And it's no wonder! I love that one. Is it a custom, or is there a website that sells that knife?