TEFLON Bearings: What's So BAD About Them

C

Confederate

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Sep 5, 2005
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CRKT uses 'em and brags about 'em...so what's so bad about teflon bearings? What other knife companies use them? Can anyone post a photo of one next to a brass bearing. I'd like to see the dif.

Thanks!
 
i can post a pic of the teflon if u can post a pic of the brass.
how can brass be slippery?
 
Brass or bronze? Similar but different. Thin and polished, yes, it can exhibit minimal friction. Some metals gall in contact, some don't. Those that don't are relatively slippery.
 
Teflon is a 'plastic' and is very slippery and reasonably tough.
Phosphor bronze is much harder and makes a good 'washer'.
In a real hard use knife the teflon may give way or tear, depending on the stresses, the bronze will not. The teflon is more susceptible to picking up hard 'dust' and having it 'indent' into the surface and thereby increase friction.
Both if them look like flat washers (which is what they are!), the teflon is white, the bronze is, well, bronze coloured.
Greg
 
Don't forget it's teflon impregnated nylon or mylar.

My biggest problem is neither of those washers hold up for long use. The nylon will get squishy and you'll have to mess with pivot tension forever.

Mylars can get snagged by debris, folded, creased and ultimately ripped leaving you with chunks of mylar film dropping out of the pivot, oh and while it's doing that it makes the pivot bound up.

Alot of people will say custom maker X uses nylon/mylar and it's good enough for them. I don't agree with that.
 
a lot of custom makers use teflon / nylatron. as long as it doesn't get immersed in muddy, silty, sandy water, it's okey. but once it gets dunked in such media (phosphor bronze also suffers from this weakness, altho not as bad), particles can get trapped / embedded in the surface of the washers. The result is scratchy opening/closing. Those then need to be changed.
 
Both washers have pros and cons.

PB , I think it was STR who showed that PB can corrode and shred.
Nytrolon , etc are only as strong as they are , it's not a miracle material.

Honestly I would not worry about it one bit. Your washers wear out ? Buy new ones , they are dirt cheap at TKM.
 
Confederate said:
CRKT uses 'em and brags about 'em...so what's so bad about teflon bearings? What other knife companies use them? Can anyone post a photo of one next to a brass bearing. I'd like to see the dif.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Al Mar uses nylon as well. Both my Nomad and mini-SERE have nylon washers.
 
Plastic is plastic. Yes, it is slippery. No, it is not as durable as metallic washers. With enough sideways torque you could deform a plastic washer much easier than a metallic one. That said, such use would be close to abuse but when you're out alone and it is the only tool you have . . . abuse may be the only option.
 
Have teflon nylon washers ever posed a problem for anyone here under standard use? I see so many negative things about them on this forum that it makes me wonder. I don't know whether those comments are based on personal experience or just bias. Some users see them as selling points; others see them as a means of manufacturers cutting corners. I don't see how something as inexpensive as a small bearing like that could be a factor.

eb_1.JPG


Teflon washers with knife punches on Ebay.
 
I don't see how something as inexpensive as a small bearing like that could be a factor.
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My examples are from experience, fine if you can't intellectually see that it is a factor.

Unless of course you're talking inexpensive knives, like crkt, then who really cares what kind of washers they use?
 
No doubt they are.

I like CRKTs quite a bit, as they've shown themselves to be generally good quality knives. I would think, however, that if another type of washer would be better, that they'd use it as it probably wouldn't add significantly to the final price.

Although I don't have any personal experiences to rely on, I have friends, one in particular, who has used a single, somewhat worn, CRKT for years and it's held up fine. I've also read of many others on these forums who talk about owning and using them for years.

Are these things difficult to replace and, if so, what's the best thing to replace them with?
 
who cares if they need replaceing, just email crkt and they will give you new ones. they will goive you a whole pivot assembly if yours is stuffed. CRKT is a great company, i dont know why people here give them such a bad rap.
 
To many people on these forums, cheap steel automatically means a crappy knife. My only experience with CRKT has been an M16-13Z I bought off ebay... one of their cheaper knives. It DOES have cheap steel that has to be frequently resharpened... but otherwise I was very happy with the knife. It has solid construction, solid lock-up, and a smooth pivot.

It's got the plastic bearings. When they're CLEAN, the action is butter smooth. They do get gritty easily though.
 
SuroK said:
who cares if they need replaceing, just email crkt and they will give you new ones. they will goive you a whole pivot assembly if yours is stuffed. CRKT is a great company, i dont know why people here give them such a bad rap.
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Don't let it frost ya.

This forum is made up of all kinds of folks into all sort of aspects of the knife world , whether it's folks who use , folks who collect , folks who do both.
Noobs , old hands , makers , buyers , designers , photographers, quite a variety !
Alas within all of us there will always be knife and steel 'snobs' , just like with any other hobby or... lifestyle ? Not the proper word but it's all that comes to mind until my coffee brews.
Ok.
A good comparison I think , my little Bro is president of a local 4WD club that has been going for over 15 years , if some saw their trucks and jeeps they might turn their nose up at them because my Bro's club , these folks have real user 4Wd's , not some yuppie/suburban type who drives the talk but does not drive the walk , if you know what I mean.
Another , today at a store I was working at , I did some work with one of my beater knives that I'll bet nobody would use their uber-expensive knife for.
There is a place for all grades of knives, including those made by CRKT.
 
I like the bronze ones, but I've never had a problem with the plastic ones. Never worn one out ever.
For ultimate stabbing rigidity, then bronze is better. I can get SLIGHT tip movement with plastic washers. Not enough to make a difference at all, but if you want absolute rock-steady, tip-can't-move rigidity, then bronze seems better.

For a knife you want to be able to open, but have tight enough that NO cop in the world can flick, then plastic washers seem to work better(in my experience).
 
i admit that i dont really like the AUS4 crkt models like the zytel ones. but for around twenty bucks can you really complain? i will try to find a brass washer and put that in my M16 to see if thewre is a longterm difference.
washers are meant to deteriorate with use that is their purpose. to deteriorate faster than the two surfaces that they protect./
 
I've only killed Nytralon bushings by making the pivot too tight. Think I flattened it out too much. Teflon is SUPER smooth. I love the feeling, though not as rigid sideways
 
Well, teflon impregnated nylon is softer than bronze, obviously. Therefore, under rotation or crushing force the nylon is not going to last as long as the bronze

That said, both are used in machinery. Machinery that is sometimes run for hours at a time. Depending on the part or application we're talking millions of cycles for the either material. It'd be a few lifetimes before you could open and close a knife to match the wear that some of these parts are capable of withstanding. So, like many 'features' in many different products, knives included; you can pay extra for the benefit of having a superior part or product. Bronze is going to beat nylon, hands down, every time. Are you going to really benefit from the difference? Likely not, but as Greg stated above, the softer teflon part will be more susceptible to picking up embedded 'stuff'. Dust is not going to settle into a nylon washer or bearing, but tiny fragments of mineral may from soil or whatever the source. Over time this would translate into the action feeling sticky or catchy or not as smooth.

Disclaimer: above is pure theory, based on prior related knowledge but spewer is no engineer or metallurgist.
 
SuroK said:
I admit that i dont really like the AUS4 crkt models like the zytel ones. but for around twenty bucks can you really complain?
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I like the CRKT M16-13Z, but I draw the line at AUS6. I also have a couple of the titanium versions of this knife with beautiful polished handles and AUS8 blades. I don't know if the Cold Steel Voyagers use bushings at all (I can't see any), or do I know what's in the Recon 1 or AK-47 for that matter.

The 13Z, however, is a great first knife, but I think the handles of a knife shouldn't be that much better than the blade. Using 420 or 420J2 is something I couldn't deal with on a day-to-day basis. With steels going up in price, along with other metals, I'm betting on crapier knives in the future and a lot of cut corners. If push comes to shove, I'd rather manufacturers like Gerber have EZ-Out frames and S30V blades than crappy blades and nice handles/frames
.
 
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