- Joined
- Oct 9, 2002
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I'd promised to post this as soon as I'd finished. Here it is...
I recently went on a week long holiday to Cairns in tropical North Queensland in Australia where the days are warm and the nights are balmy. It was the wet season, with torrential rain everyday. I used this trip as an opportunity to test my 2 new-ish Spyderco folders. The Spyderco Goddard is a large folder in VG10 steel and grey FRN handle. The almost 4inch blade is deeply hollowground. The Spyderco Native is one of the new ones in S30V steel, and was my first knife with S30V. The Native was brand new straight out of the box. The Goddard had been used a fair bit and prior to testing I cleaned it and resharpened it back to factory specs.
Spyderco Goddard
Spyderco Native
I used both knives (not abused) during the stay for everything that required a knife. There were a LOT of fruits that demanded to be eaten and all the kitchen cutting was done using these 2 knives. I also carried the 2 clipped side-by-side on my pants everywhere I went. I also wore them on my BOARDSHORTS, taking them swimming - in the pool and also on a trip to the Great Barrier Reef. I did a fair bit of cutting, whittling and slicing of various items to keep checking the edge quality all the way along.
The tests I did were "miscellaneous" subjective tests in basic day to day use, not specific, controlled tests or any sort of abusive / breakage tests. I felt that 2 Spyderco knives with high-quality heat treatment and very similar grind shape and thickness, would help control for extreme differences between knife models. I am aware of the disparity of blade length.
The areas I wanted to mainly look at were edge holding, quality of the edge, stain resistance and ease of sharpening.
EDGE HOLDING & EDGE QUALITY
Interesting Results...
I push cut hemp rope, cloth, whittled twigs for no good reason, sliced mangoes and fruits, to test the initial sharpness of both and then again after the trip to see how it would go.
Both blades shaved hair readily. The Goddard VG10 as it came to me, would cleanly knock individual hairs off. It had a fine, almost polished edge that just grabbed anything aggressively. Twisted double 1/4inch hemp rope offered little resistance - lovely crunch, crunch through the rope. I only did 4 cuts. Whittled some dried wood, which gave beautiful clean shaved slivers. Cut down easily into ripe mangoes without denting the skin.
The Native S30V blade had a rather rough looking edge that had clearly been ?? polished at the factory. The very edge was nice and even but the edge cannel itself looked like it had been cut with an 80grit belt. The edge angle was also a little steeper and narrower than on the VG10 blade. It would shave hairs but required greater pressure, and I noted that it tended to not push cut through hemp rope as well. However, it excelled when a slight sawing motion was added. It ripped through the hemp ropes and stuck itself into the plastic chopping board when I applied more pressure. Again, with whittling, I had to apply a little sawing action to cut slivers, which tended to split and peel off.
By halfway through the trip, both blades were showing some change in edge attitude. Neither blade would shave any more, but the VG10 blade still coudl slice very thin slivers of wood from dried hardwood twigs. The S30V edge could not do this at all, and required a sawing motion to get through most things at this point. Cutting tomatoes and soft vegies became more of a chore. The VG10 blade would still slice more easily, but there was no advantage if a sawing motion was used. The S30V blade really benefitted from using a sawing motion.
However, the S30V blade suddenly would not push cut AT ALL. I had just been cutting carrots on a wooden chopping board, when I had to use inordinate pressure to get it through the carrot. Instead of cutting in, it crunched its way through the carrot. A quick check revealed a massive flat spot 1inch long along the middle 1/3 of the blade. A closer check then revealed that at many areas along the edge, there were quite large (visible) areas of microchipping which gave the edge a saw-tooth profile.
Its hard to see, but you might be able to make out the ragged edge and the very coarse grind for the edge bevel.
The VG10 blade was going strong, with no evidence of flat spots.
At this point in time, I had to terminate tests of edge holding, as the VG10 blade was clearly the only blade that could be used for effective cutting. I continued using the Goddard VG10 for utility purposes, but no further comparisons could be made. I'd forgotten to pack my EZELAP Diamond hone...
PLease see the bottom of this post for the epilogue.
STAIN RESISTANCE
The results were not a surprise to me.
Both steels are 18% chromium steels. However, the VG10 blade had a very fine ?? almost 1200grit surface finish and along the grinds as well. The S30V blade had a very coarse grind. The flats were ?? probably 400grit appearance, while the edge bevels were no greater than 80grit from what I could see. (See the pictures above for the S30V blade / edge coarseness.)
I was careful to ensure both knives were used equally. I washed and dried both knives simultaneously and did not lubricate or clean away any corrosion that occured.
The VG10 blade definitely started to subtly stain with areas of use coming up a subtle blue-ish tinge. One rust spot appeared in the plunge cut but nowhere else. The edge itself actually went a bit darker, quite obviously, but there was no spotting or pitting anywhere to be seen, including on the lockbar.
The S30V blade was showing signs of stress !! Areas of frank rusty deposits and pitting were showing up in the pivot area, and all along the edge and grind. The blade opening started to get a bit gritty, which required a little work later on after the trip to free up.
Here are some shots. See also the pictures above.
RESHARPENING
I had to defer any resharpening until after the trip was over. Back in Melbourne, I used the (Red) Fine EZELAP diamond hone to re-do the edges. I used the free hanging paper slice test as the standard to say when the blades were equally sharp.
The VG10 blade was returned to the desired sharpness with just 8-10 light strokes (back and forth) on each side along the edge. This took only about 90 seconds. This was despite having been used twice as long as the S30V blade during the trip.
The S30V blade was stubborn. It didn't help that there was a massive flat spot along the blade. I was faced with either sharpening at a blunter angle to remove the flat spot, or to cut the entire edge higher. To "save time" decided to sharpen at a more obtuse angle to get rid of the flat spot. This took me about 8minutes to achieve. This sharpening procedure also demonstrated how deep and coarse the grinding grits were when shaping this knife.
Both blades also then got a finishing with a medium (grey) ceramic stick which got both to a hair-popping sharpness. The VG10 blade took 4 strokes per side to do it. The S30V blade took 9 strokes per side to do it.
I then also used s leather strop loaded with compound to polish the very edge to shave hair off my leg. The VG10 blade got straight razor sharp within 2 strokes per side. The S30V blade required 6-7strokes per side to do the job.
There is a TWIST - see my conclusion.
CONCLUSION
Its clear from my account that I became very biased towards the VG10 blade from early on. The S30V blade didn't help by suddenly developing a flat spot right in the middle of the cutting belly that made me abandon side-by-side testing. From what I could see, the VG10 held the finer, stronger, edge for longer. It was also easier to sharpen and overall seems to give the better performance.
The finish of the blade definitely made a difference. The coarse grit surface of the S30V blade clearly placed it in an awful spot for corrosion and it meant that the edge was always going to be prone to corrosion-induced dulling. Its not a simple matter of saying that all will be better if the blades were both finished to the same degree. I feel that manufacturers are unlikely to be willing to invest in the increased tooling and work costs of more finishing on S30V. Therefore, I feel that coarse grit finished S30V blades will be the norm.
The TWIST
However, an area of focus that could seriously improve performance on these blades appears to be the edge bevel grind. After the resharpening process, I have continued to use both these knives side-by-side in informal utility chores. So the "testing" continues. It is clear now that the S30V blade is holding its edge (which now shaves) better than the VG10 blade.
Therefore, I can happily say that there will be more observations to come.
As mentioned these were fairly amateur-ish mundane tests that I thought represented basic knife use in day to day life. I hope this is useful to some... and not too boring to all. Cheers. Jason.
I recently went on a week long holiday to Cairns in tropical North Queensland in Australia where the days are warm and the nights are balmy. It was the wet season, with torrential rain everyday. I used this trip as an opportunity to test my 2 new-ish Spyderco folders. The Spyderco Goddard is a large folder in VG10 steel and grey FRN handle. The almost 4inch blade is deeply hollowground. The Spyderco Native is one of the new ones in S30V steel, and was my first knife with S30V. The Native was brand new straight out of the box. The Goddard had been used a fair bit and prior to testing I cleaned it and resharpened it back to factory specs.
Spyderco Goddard
Spyderco Native
I used both knives (not abused) during the stay for everything that required a knife. There were a LOT of fruits that demanded to be eaten and all the kitchen cutting was done using these 2 knives. I also carried the 2 clipped side-by-side on my pants everywhere I went. I also wore them on my BOARDSHORTS, taking them swimming - in the pool and also on a trip to the Great Barrier Reef. I did a fair bit of cutting, whittling and slicing of various items to keep checking the edge quality all the way along.
The tests I did were "miscellaneous" subjective tests in basic day to day use, not specific, controlled tests or any sort of abusive / breakage tests. I felt that 2 Spyderco knives with high-quality heat treatment and very similar grind shape and thickness, would help control for extreme differences between knife models. I am aware of the disparity of blade length.
The areas I wanted to mainly look at were edge holding, quality of the edge, stain resistance and ease of sharpening.
EDGE HOLDING & EDGE QUALITY
Interesting Results...
I push cut hemp rope, cloth, whittled twigs for no good reason, sliced mangoes and fruits, to test the initial sharpness of both and then again after the trip to see how it would go.
Both blades shaved hair readily. The Goddard VG10 as it came to me, would cleanly knock individual hairs off. It had a fine, almost polished edge that just grabbed anything aggressively. Twisted double 1/4inch hemp rope offered little resistance - lovely crunch, crunch through the rope. I only did 4 cuts. Whittled some dried wood, which gave beautiful clean shaved slivers. Cut down easily into ripe mangoes without denting the skin.
The Native S30V blade had a rather rough looking edge that had clearly been ?? polished at the factory. The very edge was nice and even but the edge cannel itself looked like it had been cut with an 80grit belt. The edge angle was also a little steeper and narrower than on the VG10 blade. It would shave hairs but required greater pressure, and I noted that it tended to not push cut through hemp rope as well. However, it excelled when a slight sawing motion was added. It ripped through the hemp ropes and stuck itself into the plastic chopping board when I applied more pressure. Again, with whittling, I had to apply a little sawing action to cut slivers, which tended to split and peel off.
By halfway through the trip, both blades were showing some change in edge attitude. Neither blade would shave any more, but the VG10 blade still coudl slice very thin slivers of wood from dried hardwood twigs. The S30V edge could not do this at all, and required a sawing motion to get through most things at this point. Cutting tomatoes and soft vegies became more of a chore. The VG10 blade would still slice more easily, but there was no advantage if a sawing motion was used. The S30V blade really benefitted from using a sawing motion.
However, the S30V blade suddenly would not push cut AT ALL. I had just been cutting carrots on a wooden chopping board, when I had to use inordinate pressure to get it through the carrot. Instead of cutting in, it crunched its way through the carrot. A quick check revealed a massive flat spot 1inch long along the middle 1/3 of the blade. A closer check then revealed that at many areas along the edge, there were quite large (visible) areas of microchipping which gave the edge a saw-tooth profile.
Its hard to see, but you might be able to make out the ragged edge and the very coarse grind for the edge bevel.
The VG10 blade was going strong, with no evidence of flat spots.
At this point in time, I had to terminate tests of edge holding, as the VG10 blade was clearly the only blade that could be used for effective cutting. I continued using the Goddard VG10 for utility purposes, but no further comparisons could be made. I'd forgotten to pack my EZELAP Diamond hone...
PLease see the bottom of this post for the epilogue.
STAIN RESISTANCE
The results were not a surprise to me.
Both steels are 18% chromium steels. However, the VG10 blade had a very fine ?? almost 1200grit surface finish and along the grinds as well. The S30V blade had a very coarse grind. The flats were ?? probably 400grit appearance, while the edge bevels were no greater than 80grit from what I could see. (See the pictures above for the S30V blade / edge coarseness.)
I was careful to ensure both knives were used equally. I washed and dried both knives simultaneously and did not lubricate or clean away any corrosion that occured.
The VG10 blade definitely started to subtly stain with areas of use coming up a subtle blue-ish tinge. One rust spot appeared in the plunge cut but nowhere else. The edge itself actually went a bit darker, quite obviously, but there was no spotting or pitting anywhere to be seen, including on the lockbar.
The S30V blade was showing signs of stress !! Areas of frank rusty deposits and pitting were showing up in the pivot area, and all along the edge and grind. The blade opening started to get a bit gritty, which required a little work later on after the trip to free up.
Here are some shots. See also the pictures above.
RESHARPENING
I had to defer any resharpening until after the trip was over. Back in Melbourne, I used the (Red) Fine EZELAP diamond hone to re-do the edges. I used the free hanging paper slice test as the standard to say when the blades were equally sharp.
The VG10 blade was returned to the desired sharpness with just 8-10 light strokes (back and forth) on each side along the edge. This took only about 90 seconds. This was despite having been used twice as long as the S30V blade during the trip.
The S30V blade was stubborn. It didn't help that there was a massive flat spot along the blade. I was faced with either sharpening at a blunter angle to remove the flat spot, or to cut the entire edge higher. To "save time" decided to sharpen at a more obtuse angle to get rid of the flat spot. This took me about 8minutes to achieve. This sharpening procedure also demonstrated how deep and coarse the grinding grits were when shaping this knife.
Both blades also then got a finishing with a medium (grey) ceramic stick which got both to a hair-popping sharpness. The VG10 blade took 4 strokes per side to do it. The S30V blade took 9 strokes per side to do it.
I then also used s leather strop loaded with compound to polish the very edge to shave hair off my leg. The VG10 blade got straight razor sharp within 2 strokes per side. The S30V blade required 6-7strokes per side to do the job.
There is a TWIST - see my conclusion.
CONCLUSION
Its clear from my account that I became very biased towards the VG10 blade from early on. The S30V blade didn't help by suddenly developing a flat spot right in the middle of the cutting belly that made me abandon side-by-side testing. From what I could see, the VG10 held the finer, stronger, edge for longer. It was also easier to sharpen and overall seems to give the better performance.
The finish of the blade definitely made a difference. The coarse grit surface of the S30V blade clearly placed it in an awful spot for corrosion and it meant that the edge was always going to be prone to corrosion-induced dulling. Its not a simple matter of saying that all will be better if the blades were both finished to the same degree. I feel that manufacturers are unlikely to be willing to invest in the increased tooling and work costs of more finishing on S30V. Therefore, I feel that coarse grit finished S30V blades will be the norm.
The TWIST
However, an area of focus that could seriously improve performance on these blades appears to be the edge bevel grind. After the resharpening process, I have continued to use both these knives side-by-side in informal utility chores. So the "testing" continues. It is clear now that the S30V blade is holding its edge (which now shaves) better than the VG10 blade.
Therefore, I can happily say that there will be more observations to come.
As mentioned these were fairly amateur-ish mundane tests that I thought represented basic knife use in day to day life. I hope this is useful to some... and not too boring to all. Cheers. Jason.
