The "Ask Nathan a question" thread

Nathan the Machinist Nathan the Machinist after the “satin finish” discussion thread got bumped back up, I noticed that the previous run UF’s had an optional horizontal satin finish (like a hand rubbed finish) whereas current knives like the DEK1 pre-orders got the option that came out as a vertical satin finish (like a belt ground finish).

What style will the current UF2’s get?
 
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MichalZ said:
Nathan, can I kindly enquire...as you said DEF is a different knife altogether and designed as a weapon.
Does the grind change throughout the blade? What I mean, does the tip have more " meat" to withstand stabbing into lets say armoured target etc....i remember that you kept the tip of a boot knife strong for that very purpose.
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No, the DEF has a conventional grind. However it is flat ground and from pretty stout stock so the point is not particularly weak.

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Take this one for example, I happen to be sharpening one this morning.

The boot dagger has a deep hollow grind, much like a straight razor. The intersection of two hollows, especially deep hollows, makes a very weak point that needs to be addressed.

The boot dagger was a special project. The dagger ground fighters are more conventional. They're maybe not as specialized but they're good-to-go.
 
Jsega51 said:
Nathan the Machinist Nathan the Machinist after a recent thread got bumped back up, I noticed that the previous run UF’s had a horizontal satin finish (like a hand rubbed finish) whereas current knives like the DEK1 pre-orders got the vertical satin finish (like a belt ground finish).

What will the current UF2’s get?
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I don't know. It depends on who grinds them. Mark grinds perpendicular, I grind lengthwise.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
I don't know. It depends on who grinds them. Mark grinds perpendicular, I grind lengthwise.
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Sounds like a gamble...not quality of work, just look. I have a lot of customs with the traditional hand rubbed style finish but that courser belt look finish is more badass for these, especially with the nice big primary bevel of the standard pattern. I’m having trouble pressing “send” on my preorder email and this is a big reason 😂
 
Jsega51 said:
Sounds like a gamble...not quality of work, just look. I have a lot of customs with the traditional hand rubbed style finish but that courser belt look finish is more badass for these, especially with the nice big primary bevel of the standard pattern. I’m having trouble pressing “send” on my preorder email and this is a big reason 😂
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If it helps with your confusion, from that last UF/DEF pre order, the satin UF I got was horizontal, done by Nathan and the satin DEF was vertical, done by Mark. I think that is likely the best of both worlds and I hope that remains the same with the current iteration.
 
Nathan, any changes in the sharpening protocol in the last year or so? My test for sharpness is lightly pulling the edge along my calloused thumb seeing that as soon as the edge moves, it begins to cut into the skin. I haven't experienced this with newer knives finished in the last year or so. Could be just me, but one of the attractions to your blades, even larger sizes like the medium chopper, was the attention to ensuring a very sharp blade when leaving the shop. Again, this could be my experience, but I have had several older and newer unused knives go through my hands and have been able to tell a difference of late. Thanks for any thoughts on this.
 
All CPK promises is a "220 Grit Satin Finish" Nathan can not be expected to do "all the work" People have preferences, if anybody prefers a specific Satin Finish, My advice would be to order the Standard Stonewash version, and then have it modified (to his or her preference-All of my DEF's and 1 of my Uf's were done (modified by) either (Josh at Razor's edge) or By Alfred Rodriguez. Hope this helps

Tom
 
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bladeflana said:
Nathan, any changes in the sharpening protocol in the last year or so? My test for sharpness is lightly pulling the edge along my calloused thumb seeing that as soon as the edge moves, it begins to cut into the skin. I haven't experienced this with newer knives finished in the last year or so. Could be just me, but one of the attractions to your blades, even larger sizes like the medium chopper, was the attention to ensuring a very sharp blade when leaving the shop. Again, this could be my experience, but I have had several older and newer unused knives go through my hands and have been able to tell a difference of late. Thanks for any thoughts on this.
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Not really? We all getting older? The biggest change over the last year has been that Bo is doing less sharpening and I'm doing more of it.

We spend a lot more time sharpening than most companies but my primary goal isn't actually the highest sharpness. My priorities, in order of importance:

1. not overheated
2. no remaining wire edge or skipped areas
3. controlled angle
4. minimal undulations and recurve
5. consistent and even
6. fiendishly sharp
7. clean uniform finish

While sharpness is important, a level of very high initial sharpness is lost pretty quickly in normal use and the end user will need to restore their edge on a regular basis. Thus our time is better spent on aspects of sharpening that the user will have less control over such as the preceding items on the list. I don't mean to sound lame, but getting it extremely sharp is not and has never been a high priority for me, it was always just the resulting outcome of doing the process properly (it just kinda happens). That said I understand why it is important to you and I appreciate your feedback. We will make an effort to achieve the level of initial sharpness that we're know for. :thumbsup:
 
A slack dull belt at high speed will apply a smooth sharp edge but it will burn the very apex of the edge and also give you random uncontrolled edge geometry. Sharpening very slowly and under flood coolant against a hard steel platen doesn't give you sharp shiny edge very easily and the low speeds means a lot of time spent just getting to an apex. So, there are easier ways to get the sticky sharp edge than our approach but none better for consistent performance and longevity. My guess is, the root cause of the change is that I'm doing more of the sharpening and I use a little more pressure so I can feel the platen (you can't see it very well under the coolant). An excessively light touch would lead to the belt poofing out in spots creating non-controlled erosion so I press hard enough to keep the belt flat and feel to the platen. Slow speed against a sharp belt with some pressure gets me 1-5 on that list but probably reduces 6 and 7.

I'll work on it.
 
Jsega51 said:
Nathan the Machinist Nathan the Machinist after the “satin finish” discussion thread got bumped back up, I noticed that the previous run UF’s had an optional horizontal satin finish (like a hand rubbed finish) whereas current knives like the DEK1 pre-orders got the option that came out as a vertical satin finish (like a belt ground finish).

What style will the current UF2’s get?
Click to expand...
In the last UF preorder the original UFs had the horizontal finish, and the DEFs had the vertical finish. Will it be like that this time Nathan? Please!🙏
 
jus_gus said:
Hey Nathan, If you don’t mind me asking, is the military contract for the UF or the DEF?
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We all know what happens when you ass-u-me something, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume it's for the UF.

Simple reason being that he stated that if there were enough orders for the DEF (which upon being asked, he gave a ballpark of 20 orders), he'd make the fixtures to grind DEFs vs hand grinding the top edge.

If the order were for DEFs, it would seem logical to expect everything to be setup for DEFs, and maaaybe have an option for UF orders.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
No, the DEF has a conventional grind. However it is flat ground and from pretty stout stock so the point is not particularly weak.

View attachment 1574022
View attachment 1574024

Take this one for example, I happen to be sharpening one this morning.

The boot dagger has a deep hollow grind, much like a straight razor. The intersection of two hollows, especially deep hollows, makes a very weak point that needs to be addressed.

The boot dagger was a special project. The dagger ground fighters are more conventional. They're maybe not as specialized but they're good-to-go.
Click to expand...
So the UF have a reinforced point, but the DEF do not?
Does the sharpened tip option also defeat the reinforced point?
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
No, the DEF has a conventional grind. However it is flat ground and from pretty stout stock so the point is not particularly weak.

View attachment 1574022
View attachment 1574024

Take this one for example, I happen to be sharpening one this morning.

The boot dagger has a deep hollow grind, much like a straight razor. The intersection of two hollows, especially deep hollows, makes a very weak point that needs to be addressed.

The boot dagger was a special project. The dagger ground fighters are more conventional. They're maybe not as specialized but they're good-to-go.
Click to expand...

bluemax_1 said:
We all know what happens when you ass-u-me something, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume it's for the UF.

Simple reason being that he stated that if there were enough orders for the DEF (which upon being asked, he gave a ballpark of 20 orders), he'd make the fixtures to grind DEFs vs hand grinding the top edge.

If the order were for DEFs, it would seem logical to expect everything to be setup for DEFs, and maaaybe have an option for UF orders.
Click to expand...

That’s what I thought, but since he posted that he was sharpening a DEF yesterday, I was wondering if it was for the military contract. Maybe he’s just getting a jump on the preorder?
 
jus_gus said:
Hey Nathan, If you don’t mind me asking, is the military contract for the UF or the DEF?
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That's an old stock DEF we're taking to Blade Show.

I should clarify, there isn't a "military contract". I didn't said that. That sounds really cool but this isn't some "Pentagon procurement" project. They approached us to build knives for the graduating West Point class and after some discussion we determined the best knife for this was the Utility Fighter, which had been retired so we're dusting it off. It's an honor to make knives for these fine men and women and we're proud to provide a tool that was developed with an active duty professional soldier that is going to serve them well in their career, but I don't want to overstate our role here. This is a military customer but it isn't some formal "military contract". I wish it were, but we're still pretty small-fry. It was a special request that justifies re-releasing a retired pattern and we're glad to do it.

Even though Jason personally carried a double edge, he felt that single edge was the better configuration for most people and it is probably a more useful tool that way.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
That's an old stock DEF we're taking to Blade Show.

I should clarify, there isn't a "military contract". I didn't said that. That sounds really cool but this isn't some "Pentagon procurement" project. They approached us to build knives for the graduating West Point class and after some discussion we determined the best knife for this was the Utility Fighter, which had been retired so we're dusting it off. It's an honor to make knives for these fine men and women and we're proud to provide a tool that was developed with an active duty professional soldier that is going to serve them well in their career, but I don't want to overstate our role here. This is a military customer but it isn't some formal "military contract". I wish it were, but we're still pretty small-fry. It was a special request that justifies re-releasing a retired pattern and we're glad to do it.

Even though Jason personally carried a double edge, he felt that single edge was the better configuration for most people and it is probably a more useful tool that way.
Click to expand...
Oh, that's cool! Can you say who 'they' was? West Point is doing this, or someone else is doing it for this year's seniors?
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
Not really? We all getting older? The biggest change over the last year has been that Bo is doing less sharpening and I'm doing more of it.

We spend a lot more time sharpening than most companies but my primary goal isn't actually the highest sharpness. My priorities, in order of importance:

1. not overheated
2. no remaining wire edge or skipped areas
3. controlled angle
4. minimal undulations and recurve
5. consistent and even
6. fiendishly sharp
7. clean uniform finish

While sharpness is important, a level of very high initial sharpness is lost pretty quickly in normal use and the end user will need to restore their edge on a regular basis. Thus our time is better spent on aspects of sharpening that the user will have less control over such as the preceding items on the list. I don't mean to sound lame, but getting it extremely sharp is not and has never been a high priority for me, it was always just the resulting outcome of doing the process properly (it just kinda happens). That said I understand why it is important to you and I appreciate your feedback. We will make an effort to achieve the level of initial sharpness that we're know for. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Thanks, Nathan! I for one am happy that you pay close attention to 1 - 5. I clamped my DEK1 up in my Wicked Edge 130 last night after reading these posts, and gave her a quick sharpening. I have to say that it was the sweetest sharpening I've ever done. The edges were spot on at 20dps. The apex looked slightly convex to me.
I started with my 800 grit stones, because thankfully I didn't have to 'reprofile' the edges, and finished with my 3000 grit diamond stones. The diamond stones just glided across the steel as sweet as could be. It was almost like they weren't cutting anything, but they were.
Keep up the great work!

DEK1-3000 grit-1a.jpg
 
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