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The "Ask Nathan a question" thread

Discussion in 'Carothers Performance Knives' started by JustinFournier, Aug 30, 2016.

  1. ManOfSteel89

    ManOfSteel89 Gold Member Gold Member

    May 20, 2012
    According to Jo the Shivs will be 3V as there are no D3V Shivs in existence.
     
    Jo the Machinist likes this.
  2. on_the_edge

    on_the_edge Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 31, 2006
    Nathan, I don't know if you have any direct experience with Swamp Rat's SR-101, which is IIRC simply 52100 with Swamp Rat's heat treat. If so, I am wondering if you could tell me how delta 3V compares to it in terms of corrosion resistance, edge holding, and toughness, all other things being equal.
     
  3. ManOfSteel89

    ManOfSteel89 Gold Member Gold Member

    May 20, 2012
    I can personally tell you D3V is much more corrosion resistant and seems to hold an edge better.
     
  4. Nathan the Machinist

    Nathan the Machinist KnifeMaker / Machinist / Evil Genius Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Feb 13, 2007
    52100 is in a class of steels with the greatest fine edge stability potential, though this is generally at hardness of perhaps 61-64. It is a popular forging steel among advanced smiths with a reputation for being difficult to optimize but rewards a skilled smith with the ability to support thin geometry. It has a lot of potential for knives that can maintain a very high level of sharpness, and it can be differentially heat treated to make a soft (weak) tough (unbreakable) spine. It is valued among some collectors on its ability to obtain a visible hamon or temper line, though the aesthetics are of little utility to me. Although it can be reasonably tough it's naturally a plate martensite so this doesn't occur without some efforts/tradeoffs. It has good edge retention in non-abrasive non-corrosive environments but you will not find an enormous amount of toughness or wear resistance in its chemistry and its chrome content is too low for much corrosion resistance. In my mind it's a good basic knife steel in the same league as A2 or O1, but with some cool idiosyncrasies. I like the steel fine but I see it more of a vintage material with some nice properties but perhaps outclassed by modern materials and manufacturing processes. I think that any quality steel with a fully optimized heat treat can be a very good performer so I'm sure their offerings are extremely good, but fundamentally the material is lacking some properties I would want to utilize in in my own work. Looking for a high hardness, high edge stability steel that supports thin geometry brought me to Vanadis 4 and CPM 4V which (when optimized) are phenomenal in thin high hardness applications but with abrasion resistance and toughness made possible with modern materials. We have a batch in process now with very good edge stability that can still cut nails with a thin edge and 18 DPS and HRC 63-64 without cracking and while maintaining enough carbide to achieve good abrasion resistance. I'm leaning towards 4V for hard thin applications.
     
  5. on_the_edge

    on_the_edge Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 31, 2006
    Thank you, exactly what I was looking for. :thumbsup:
     
  6. xxwarderxx

    xxwarderxx Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 27, 2015
    This gets me excited to pick up one of these. 63-64 HRC? Yes please.
     
  7. Bladeken

    Bladeken

    2
    May 9, 2017
    So this is my first blade forums post. I've been learning tons about balanced alloys,and knife design. I'm very grateful to you all for sharing this knowledge. Got started initially when Ankerson steel test chart came up on a Google search. I think it's interesting that Gayle Bradley & Nathan both value D2/PSF27 so highly-since both guys know a thing or two about cutting performance.
    >Question 1. Would you use PSF27 if readily available? I was wondering if it had any advantage over good quality crucible ingot D2? Both have that toothiness that cpmD2 lacks, from what I understand. Would the PSF process give more uniformity with the toothiness?
    >Question 2. I just got a spyderco manix2 cpmCruwear and it has been great for what folder can be used for. Could CPM Cruwear ever be optimized and come close to D3v and it's well balanced properties in the field knife application?
    Thank you all for your time & patients, and making this an extremely enjoyable forum!
     
  8. Nathan the Machinist

    Nathan the Machinist KnifeMaker / Machinist / Evil Genius Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Feb 13, 2007
    I think PSF27 will fall between D2 and CPM D2 in its attributes. We have a sheet here I'm planning to use in a small batch of D2 Not-A-Survival-Knife later in the year. I think the enhanced toughness over regular D2 would make it a reasonable choice in a medium size knife.
     
  9. Bladeken

    Bladeken

    2
    May 9, 2017
    It will be interesting to hear how psf27 responds to your heat treat process. As to CPM-Cruwear though. I wanted to get cruwear in 4-5" fixed blade factory production knife. But I don't want to bother with it if you thought it wouldn't come close to 3v well balanced properties. I like how it doesn't rust as easily as 4v. But it's an older alloy that makes me wonder if it can hold its own in toughness and stability running at 60-61 Rockwell. I have some 3v knives already, and like em, but wanted a little more wear resistance. Would your optimized 3v at 61rc basically smoke the more vintage CPM Cruwear? Maybe not a fair question if you haven't experimented with Cruwear like the others. Always searching for understanding, and really appreciate any insight on this you may have.
     
  10. ridnovir

    ridnovir Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 12, 2012
    When will the new field knife be available ?
    I read somewhere that it was discontinued and it "might" MUST be redesigned and offered again.
     
  11. stjones

    stjones Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 23, 2010
    This was Nathan's reply in the
    Why retire the Field knife? thread.

     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  12. adamlau

    adamlau Basic Member Basic Member

    Oct 13, 2002
    @Nathan the Machinist: Will you be offering thinner, flatter scales for the EDC in the near future? I am finding that the standard scales are a bit wide for neck carry. Scale bulge is rather noticeable through a shirt and/or sweatshirt. Paracord works, but hoping for a CPK solution without having to request custom scales elsewhere.
     
  13. Nathan the Machinist

    Nathan the Machinist KnifeMaker / Machinist / Evil Genius Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Feb 13, 2007
    I do want to do that at some point but it is not in the queue yet. We're scrambling to prep for Blade Show, get the new machining center and shop layout worked out and completing the final steps on the Light Chopper pre-order so we're in "scramble mode" right now, but when we get back from Atlanta we'll sit down and figure out the rest of the year and I'll try to put some thin EDC scales into the mix.

    I have some thin orange and black EDC scales now that are simply the standard design with the thickness decked down. I wonder if they might work for you?
     
  14. ManOfSteel89

    ManOfSteel89 Gold Member Gold Member

    May 20, 2012
    I'd like a set like that! Orange is my color!
     
  15. adamlau

    adamlau Basic Member Basic Member

    Oct 13, 2002
    Sounds good, Nathan. Though I'll pass the orange scales and wait on black or foliage/OD canvas.
     
  16. TommyGun56

    TommyGun56 Gold Member Gold Member

    Jul 29, 2014
    Nathan, what are the chances that we will see a large Chopper and possibly Shiv pre-order in the future? Thanks
    51145d1434685699-aor-ar-dv1-thumbs-up-thumbs-down-2thumbsupb.jpg
     
  17. ManOfSteel89

    ManOfSteel89 Gold Member Gold Member

    May 20, 2012
    A HC preorder would be cool :)
     
  18. Casinostocks

    Casinostocks Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 20, 2016
    ^^^ indeed, but with the amount of work and input from Nathan plus a hefty chunk of change for the material and the HT, I am of the opinion that it will be only offered as a Limited Edition for those few lucky ones who will have to open up their wallets by quite a bit more. What would be considered as cool for us the consumer, may not necessarily translate to economically feasible at their end.
     
  19. TommyGun56

    TommyGun56 Gold Member Gold Member

    Jul 29, 2014
    No problem for Nathan, with the New Machinery, Nathan and Jo can do just about anything they put their minds to! I believe he stated the Chopper would be .230 thick, not much thicker than the Survival knife and 5 and 1/2 inches longer. Any large quality made chopper is going to obviously cost more because of the materials involved! Not going to Guestimate a Price, but I am in for 2 with a pre-order! My Wallet is open!!
    Also remember the NASK Pre-order came about because people requested it!
    I'm making this list because so many people have requested one, not because I want one
    173689929.jpg
    If Nathan builds it and offers it in a Pre-Sale people will come
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2017
  20. Casinostocks

    Casinostocks Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 20, 2016
    ^^^ ironically that virtual wallet may have the right number of Benjies if I had to gu$timate, for one only :)
     

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