The Best Steel - Cut Tests and Opinions

[Tommy-Chi]

The following information was collected through "Cedric & Ada Gear and Outdoors" YouTube videos. He is from Australia

Standard worksharp edge test (20 degrees micro convex for most tests. 17 degree edges is typical for UNLEASHED tests) unless otherwise noted. The test counts the number of cuts to very abrasive 1 inch thick sisal rope.


KnifeNews says,

Pete chooses edge retention as the key criteria to measure folding knife steel. “I want the fine slicing to last as long as possible,” he says. His cut tests, performed using a standardized edge bevel, cutting medium, and method, measure this characteristic, end when the knife can no longer cut printer paper. The testing medium is abrasive sisal rope, and Pete readily admits that this is a harder cut than most. But he finds that steels which fail to make 60-70 cuts in his testing translate to poor EDC options. “Knives that land below the 60 mark generally frustrate me when I carry them extensively as a daily user,” he says.

This metric rules out the standard budget steels on the market today: heat treat plays an important role in the performance of any steel, but in testing, Pete has found that AUS-8, 8Cr13MoV, and 440C all fail to meet the 60 cut mark. To put that in perspective, a modern super steel like CTS-XHP gets all the way to 242 cuts on Pete’s test. “A lot of marketing materials still claim that AUS-8 and 8Cr13Mov are high carbon steels with superior edge retention. This just isn’t true, and hasn’t been for a long time,” Pete says. Knives with these steels are far from unusable, but Pete believes the time has come for makers to offer better options – even at lower price points. “I just want a steel in my lower cost knives which holds a little longer than what’s widely used.”



KEY
Steel(Special), # of cuts knife #1 - Manufacturer #1; # of cuts knife #2 - Manufacturer #2


CPM REX 121(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge(LANSKY)), 925 to 950 - Creely Knives

Maxamet(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge toothy), 810 - Spyderco Manix 2

Maxamet, 563 - Spyderco Manix 2, 20 degree edge
CPM 10V(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge toothy), 550 - Spyderco Fahrid K2
S110V (UNLEASHED - 17dg edge) 500 - Spyderco Para 3

CPM M4(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge), 489 - Spyderco
K390(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge), 480 - Spyderco
CPM 4V, 475 - Bark River Knives, Kephart 5
S90V(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge), 440 - Benchmade Altitude
M390(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge), 440 - Steel Will Cutjack
M390(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge), 425 - REPLACEMENT Steel Will Modus
HAP40(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge), 415 - Spyderco Dragonfly 2

CPM 10V, 389 - Spyderco Fahrid K2
Cru Wear(Polished Edge), 375 - Creely Knives
CTS-XHP (UNLEASHED - 17dg edge), 370 - Cold Steel American Lawman
CPM 20CV, 351 - Benchmade Griptillian 555-1
Cru Wear(UNLEASHED - 17dg toothy edge 600 grit), 350 - Creely Knives
ZDP189, 336 - Spyderco Endura
M390, 334 - Lionsteel TRE; 400 cuts at 20 degrees on mirror polished edge - WE Knives 620j
CTS 204P, 321 - Spyderco Southard
ELMAX (Unleashed), 320 - Microtec DOC (20 degree mirror polished edge)
HAP40, 300 - Spyderco Dragonfly 2

CPM S110V, 295 - Spyderco Paramilitary 2; 281 - Spyderco Manix 2
S35VN(UNLEASHED - 17dg), 295- Cold Steel Recon 1
SGPS, 291- Fallkniven U2
CTS 40CP, 285 - Strider SNG
CPM M4, 280 - Benchmade Contego; 224 - Spyderco Mantra
CPM S90V, 278 - Spyderco Native 5
S30V (UNLEASHED), 260 - 17DPS Polished Edge on Spyderco Sage
K390, 242 - Spyderco Police 4
CTS XHP, 242 - Cold Steel Broken Skull
ELMAX, 236 - Zero Tolerance 0562
LC200N, 226 - Spyderco Spydiechef
Vanadis 4, 225 - Zero Tolerance 0180 (???? 4V?)
CPM 3V, 209 - Cold Steel Master Hunter; 198, Bark River Bravo 1 LT

CPM S35VN, 198 - Kizer Gemini; 194, ZT0220; 187 - Reeve Sebenza
A2, 191 - Bark River JX6 (BRK does A2 right)
RWL34(RHC 59), 186 - Foolhardy Knives
S35VN(Factory Edge), 180 - Cold Steel Recon 1
Laminated CoS, 176 - Fallkniven PC
CPM S30V, 175 - Benchmade 940; 190 - Spyderco Sage
Aogami Blue Steel, 140 - Higo No Kami; 210 - Higo No Kami UNLEASHED, 14 degree edge
NIOLOX, 135 - Lionsteel T5
154CM, 124 - Leatherman Skeletool CX
D2, 120 - Ontario Rat 1 (Ontario does D2 right)
VG10, 115 - 17 degree polished edges, Spyderco Delica
CTS BD1, 112 - Cold Steel Voyager
CPM S35VN, 109 to 113 - ZT 0909 (TWO TESTS)
BDZ1(UNLEASHED), 111 - Gerber Strongarm
01, 109 - Tindall Knives Sawtooth Hunter
AEB L, 108 - DB Blades Custom Knife
Sleipner, 105 - Lionsteel SR11
14c28n, 105 - 17 degree polished edges, ? unknown knife

80CRv2, 100 - Terava Jaakari puukko
Infi, 90 - Busse
X12MF, 90 - Kizlyar Fileen
14c28n, 88 - Mora Garbera
1095 Cro Van, 87 - Ka Bar BK7 (better than std 1095)
N690co 87 - Spyderco Pingo
12C27, 85 - Greystone Custom Knife
VG10c 83 - Kizer Dukes; 75 - Spyderco Delica; 74 - Fallkniven F1
Ceramic, 80 - Savannah, Kitchen Knife
L6c 80 - Svord Peasant
420HC (UNLEASHED), 80 - Gerber Strongarm
440C 77 - Lionsteel Mini

BDZ1, 75 - Gerber Strongarm
440C, 75 Kizlyar Hero; 70 - Kizlyar Ute
1095, 75 - ESEE 4; 69 - SCHRADE 42D
VG1, 73 - Cold Steel SRK
9cr18mov, 72 - Freewolf Knife
14c28n, 71 - Real Steel E571
Case Chrome Vanadium, 70 to 77
D2, 67/70 - Viper Keeper
4116, 67 - Cold Steel Bushman
BOS 420HC, 67 - Buck vantage select
C75, 66 - Opinel
Case Tru Sharp, 60 to 65
AUS8, 60 - Al Mar Facon; 58 - Ontario Rat 1; 52 - Cold Steel Kobun
5160, 59 - Ontario Bushcraft Field
8cr14mov, 56 - Tonife Luminescence
12c27mod, 55 - Opinel
AN58, 53 - Nieto Pegaso
440c, 53 - Ganzo Gsomething

420HC, 50 - Gerber Strongarm
M390, 50 to 100 cuts(5 complete tests), Steel Will Modus (BOGUS KNIFE STEEL)
420hc, 44 - Leatherman Surge; 48 - Gerber Strongarm
8cr13mov, 48 - CRKT NOMA; 39 - CRKT Swindle
420 J2, 40 - Buck 311
440A, 38 - Becker Remora
5cr15mov, 37 - Gerber Index
Victorinox, 36 - Explorer
7cr13Mov, 35 - Bear Grylls Knife
Cast Iron, 20 - Amazon.com Cast Iron Kitchen Knife
???, 9 - Z HUNTER
???, 4 to 6 - Shit internet knife
???, 3 - Butter Knife

 

[Tommy-Chi]

CRKT - Benefits of the Elements of Stainless Steel

Increases Edge Retention
Carbon

Increases Hardness
Carbon, Chromium, Molybdenum, Nickel, Vanadium

Increases Harden-ability
Manganese, Molybdenum

Increases Toughness
Chromium, Molybdenum

Increases Tensile Strength
Carbon, Chromium, Manganese, Silicon, Vanadium

Increases Impact Strength
Vanadium

Increases Wear and Abrasion Resistance
Carbon, Chromium, Manganese, Molybdenum

Increases Corrosion Resistance
Chromium, Nickel

 

[Tommy-Chi]

HARDNESS / EDGE RETENTION

This is a measure of edge holding ability, which, is, in many ways a steel’s tendency to not roll and edge or go dull. Hardness usually comes at the cost of a tendency to chip, that is hard steels tend to chip instead of roll.

Well Below Average: 1095 (as usually treated), 420HC, 7Cr13MoV

Below Average: VG-10, AUS8, 440C, 8Cr13MoV

Average: S35VN, S30V

Above Average: M390/20CV/CTS-204p, 3V, CTS-XHP

Well Above Average: ZDP-189, Maxamet, REX 121



TOUGHNESS

This is a measure of a steel’s ability to resist chipping. Tough steels will dull or roll an edge before they chip.

Well Below Average: Ceramic

Below Average: S30V, VG-10

Average: S35VN, AUS 8

Above Average: 1095 (as usually treated), AEB-L, CTS-XHP

Well Above Average: INFI, 3V



CORROSION RESISTANCE

This is a steel’s ability to resist coloration and pitting due to exposure to elements such as water, salt water, sweat, acidic or basic foods, and the like.

Well Below Average: Maxamet

Below Average: ZDP-189, 3V, 8Cr13MoV

Average: VG-10

Above Average: 420HC, 440C, M390/CTS-204p/20CV

Well Above Average: LN 200C, H1



SHARPENABILITY

This is not so much a working property of steel, but how ease the steel is to maintain. Ideally, you will get a steel that comes back to a razor edge with stropping after to moderate use. A full sharpening should correct any minor edge defects.

Well Below Average: ZDP-189, S30V

Below Average: 3V, VG-10

Average: 8Cr13MoV, 440C, S35VN

Above Average: M390/CTS-204p/20CV, CTS-XHP

Well Above Average: INFI, 1095 (as usually treated)

 

[Tommy-Chi]

This list is not inclusive of all of the steels available, and it is based upon @Ankerson basic list, which you can find here.

Super Steels
CPM 20CV, M390, and CTS 204P
CPM 4V
HAP40
Maxamet
Vanax 75
REX 121
S110V

Ultra Premium Steels
CPM S90V
CPM M4
Elmax
LC200N
SGPS

Premium Steels
CPM S30V
CTS-XHP
K390
RWL34
S35VN
ZDP-189

High-End Steels
14c28n
154CM
80CRv2
ATS-34
VG-1
N690
AEB L
BDZ1
CTS BD1
D2
Sleipner

Average Steels
4116
5160
440C
420HC
8cr14mov
1095
8Cr13MoV
12c27mod
AN58
Aus8

Low-End Steels
420J2
440A
5cr15mov
7cr13Mov
AUS-6
Cast Iron

 

[Tommy-Chi]

These are just my notes. I see people all of the time asking what abt this or that steel, and I thought that it would just be easier to post what I have rather than post as a response to inquiries.


If you like the effort, please give me some LIKES!

 

[Lapedog]

These are just my notes. I see people all of the time asking what abt this or that steel, and I thought that it would just be easier to post what I have rather than post as a response to inquiries.

Just curious why you listed 20cv as super steel but m390 as ultra premium steel?

 

[Tommy-Chi]

Just curious why you listed 20cv as super steel but m390 as ultra premium steel?

They are just my notes. I collect information and allowed others to speak through me. All of it is open for discussion. Hopefully people have their own data which they can post and this will become a go-to.

 

[navman]

I think what Lapedog is getting at is that 20CV and M390 are essentially the same steel, chemically.

The difference (and possibly the reason for M390 rating higher) is BUCORP's 3rd generation PM process, which, reportedly, produces finer particle size, thus possibly increasing edge stability and edge holding. In practical use, likely not noticeable.

edit to add: Just noticed M390 scored lower...interesting.

 

[Lapedog]

They are just my notes. I collect information and allowed others to speak through me. All of it is open for discussion. Hopefully people have their own data which they can post and this will become a go-to.

The reason I ask is because they are actually the same steel produced by two different companies under two different names. If anything m390 is slightly more advanced because it uses a 3rd generation powder steel process and 20cv (as well as cts204p which is the same steel by a third company) use a second generation process.

Thus it is likely any differences you got in between these knives was due to different heat treatments that put the steel at different hardnesses. Even assuming the edge was the same on each knife the geometry behind the edge can also change how a knife performs.

 

[Natlek]

These are just my notes. I see people all of the time asking what abt this or that steel, and I thought that it would just be easier to post what I have rather than post as a response to inquiries.

Exactly ............this are JUST yours notes .
So no more question about steel , you give to us all answer ??

 

[navman]

Guys, notes are notes....data is data. Analyzing raw data from multiple sources can lead to a better understanding about how different steels perform. Until now the go to source (at least for many) has been Jim's cut tests. I like that we now have additional tests on similar steels.

Scientific, no. Useful and interesting...YES.

 

[lionsden]

I think there’s some great data collected and have experienced some similar results during some of my not so
Expert analysis. I wouldn’t put 20CV over S90v in anything but toughness and would think S90v is def a super steel. Also M390, 20CV, and 204P are all the same just different generations of powder metallurgy... imo they should be in the exact same category as they perform near identical in every aspect.

 

[Tommy-Chi]

Guys, notes are notes....data is data. Analyzing raw data from multiple sources can lead to a better understanding about how different steels perform. Until now the go to source (at least for many) has been Jim's cut tests. I like that we now have additional tests on similar steels.

Scientific, no. Useful and interesting...YES.

Exactly. In the Cedric & Ada info, I added to Pete's notes(the guy doing the tests) notes from his videos. I didn't do any of these tests and these statements abt the steels are not mine.

I am trying to get people to post their own notes and tests...then we can have one heck of a collection on knife steels!

 

[Tommy-Chi]

I think there’s some great data collected and have experienced some similar results during some of my not so
Expert analysis. I wouldn’t put 20CV over S90v in anything but toughness and would think S90v is def a super steel. Also M390, 20CV, and 204P are all the same just different generations of powder metallurgy... imo they should be in the exact same category as they perform near identical in every aspect.

I can change that! I agree...

 

[vwb563]

They are just my notes. I collect information and allowed others to speak through me. All of it is open for discussion. Hopefully people have their own data which they can post and this will become a go-to.

Thank you sir for posting this. Nice info to have access to.

 

[Shorttime]

I think we need a different standard for comparison.

The membership of Bladeforums has very complex and sophisticated debates about metallurgy, heat treating protocols, bevel angles....

Okay, sometimes they're not very sophisticated, but the point is that threads like this turn into a rock-slinging exhibition way too often, which leads me to ask why we can all start with the same information, and end up with very different points of view.

One possibility, and the one I would like to bring up here (at the risk of hijacking the thread), is that trying to compare steel performance by itself is a recipe for inaccurate conclusions. Like the engineer who wants to start any discussion by imagining a frictionless vacuum, just focusing on element ratios is a start, but it risks simplifying the problem so much that the result isn't useful for comparing knives.

1) Steel chemistry

2) Edge hardness (heat treat protocol is important, but the end result is what does the cutting)

3) Primary bevel angle and profile (convex, concave, saber, etc)

4) Secondary bevel angle and profile

5) Sharpening procedure (is it even possible to get two different steels to the same objective standard of "sharpness"?)

6) Testing medium

7) Initial cutting pressure

Edit to add: 7b) number of cuts. Might be important....

8) Final cutting pressure (implying that there is some cutoff point where the effort is too great to be safe or practical)

If you goal is to build consensus about what kind of steel(s) are a good match for a particular kind of knife or cutting job, you need all of this information to get to that goal.

 

[Hickory n steel]

I like my " average steels " and am pretty sure I always will.

 

[jstn]

Thanks,Tommy-Chi! I am glad to see some testing that takes more into account than just edge retention. I have never encountered a scenario where I have to cut hundreds of pieces of rope in a vacuum, thus toughness, corrosion resistance, and sharpenability all factor in to my steel choices. IMO all around steels are where it's at!

 

[knarfeng]

The edge retention ratings are useless without Rockwell readings.
Two blades made of the same alloy can have vastly different edge retention results if the blades are hardened to different hardnesses. Without Rockwell data one cannot make valid comparisons.

I've seen his test method. He cuts on a wood surface. The amount of edge damage from cutting into the wood is a variable which can impact results. A better method is to cut so that only the rope is being cut.

These errors lead to a lot of his results not making much sense. For instance, he lists 4116 in the same category as D2. 4116 is essentially 420HC. Putting these two alloys in the same performance category is laughable.

It's always amusing to see testing and conclusions from people with no technical background.

 

[Tommy-Chi]

The edge retention ratings are useless without Rockwell readings.
Two blades made of the same alloy can have vastly different edge retention results if the blades are hardened to different hardnesses. Without Rockwell data one cannot make valid comparisons.

I've seen his test method. He cuts on a wood surface. The amount of edge damage from cutting into the wood is a variable which can impact results. A better method is to cut so that only the rope is being cut.

These errors lead to a lot of his results not making much sense. For instance, he lists 4116 in the same category as D2. 4116 is essentially 420HC. Putting these two alloys in the same performance category is laughable.

It's always amusing to see testing and conclusions from people with no technical background.

I agree 100% he has developed a test that is no better than all of the other videos on YouTube where they cut cardboard or sisal. He does not invoke any technical measures, but I've seen videos from Rockstead and they were no better. They used a machine and yet, they did not prove anything.

I think the best thing about the tests is the basic repeatability. He is human, and he cuts on wood, and I'd suggest that the list bears him out...all except one test where he broke out a cork pad, and that test resulted in 15 to 20 more cuts than on wood. All that this data represents to me is: it is a rough plus or minus 10 to 15 cuts accurate and all other steels within that range are in the ball park. He tries to give us his best effort and while he is no machine, he does a better than average job.

The listing of 4116 with D2, was done by me by mistake, only the top post is from Pete, at Cedric and Ada. This list is from @Ankerson, and I modified it based on Pete's cut tests. I fixed the list.