The breaking of a new Schrade.

[Inazone]

So, conventional wisdom states that you should use the right tool for a job, and while camping recently, I was equipped with a hatchet and folding saw appropriate for splitting firewood. I was also equipped with a brand new Schrade SCHF36 that I'd bought specifically for the purpose of taking on camping trips. Seriously, like I'm not going to baton with it? I'd bought it at a gun/knife show from a dealer who uses the same model as his woods knife (he had it with him, definitely had seen a lot of wear and tear) and I compared it to some other sub-$50 fixed blades. I liked some of the features, such as 1095 blade, suitable ergonomics and choil to fit my hand, included sharpener and ferro rod, etc. Not thrilled to see that this model was made in China instead of Taiwan, and paid too much for it (At a gun show?! Never!) but whatever. I was going on a trip in a few days, so it was as good a time as any. Now, after buying it, I read some comments online about some SCHF36s having slightly warped blades, which sure enough, mine had too. Not much I was going to do about it right then, and I wasn't concerned. A co-worker of mine bought an SCHF36 from the same dealer for the same purpose a day after me, so I figured I wasn't going into this expecting too much.

Well, on our first night out, come dinner time, I decided that the Schrade was going to prove what it was made of. This was in a state park where you had to buy your firewood at the park HQ, and for the sake of full disclosure, I had no idea what kind of wood it actually was. However, I've batoned with a Schrade X-Timer with "Schrade+" stainless steel before, so I figured this would be a piece of cake. Yeah, maybe not.

I pick my baton and my victim and set to the task. First hit is fine, so is the second, but something is definitely wrong on the third strike (I'm out??) and not where I was expecting trouble. The handle is loose in my hand:

The tang cracked at the first handle screw, all the way through. However, on both halves, it sure looked like rust at the point of the break:

I'm not please about this, but the trip must go on. When I get home a couple of days later, I read over the Schrade warranty. They've definitely worded it in such a way as to get out of replacing a knife used for anything other than cutting, so I contact the dealer I bought it from. The guy travels to gun shows (no B&M storefront) and I don't expect him to replace it, but I ask him if he's ever had any issues with his SCHF36. Nope, he uses it as a bushcraft knife and has had nothing but success. He says he's never had to return anything to Schrade under warranty and suggests I give them a try. Before calling, I check their website, and right on the SCHF36 product page is a promo video of this model being used exactly as he described, including chopping and batoning wood. OK, so I figure I might have a shot, and call their customer service. The woman I talk to asks me what happened, I tell her what I was doing with it AND about the appearance of rust, which surprises her. "We're waiting on the next shipment to arrive, but send it in and I'll have a replacement out as soon as they're here," she tells me. No busting my balls about batoning with a knife, no grilling me about anything, nada. Now, I wasn't thrilled that it was going to cost $9 to ship back, but now I was in it for the experience as much as to get a new knife.

Anyway, she wasn't kidding - a week later, I received my replacement knife. I haven't taken the scales off to look for anything suspicious, but at least the blade isn't warped. No camping trips planned for a while, so I don't know when I'll have an opportunity to test the new one, but I thought I'd at least relay my experience here since people seem to ask about these Schrade knives with some frequency. I'm not turned off to the brand - they took care of me far better and faster than expected - but I'll be curious to see how this knife holds up.

 

[Lee48]

Stress fracture at the point one of the grip screws was attached. Rust indicates this crack formed at the time of manufacture. While batoning is something I would never do except in an emergency, it didn't cause the knife to break but it did hasten the inevitable. This can happen with any brand of knife at any price level because some stress fractures can be virtually impossible to detect. They just lay there like an aneurysm, weakening more and more. Over 40 years ago, I had a Puma White Hunter break in half after a drop on the kitchen floor. Puma replaced the knife even though it was several years old at the time and I had no proof of purchase. It's good to know that Schrade stepped up and did the right thing as well.

 

[Hacked]

So you had a hatchet, what was the point of the big thick heavy knife? I mean that to say what did you plan to use it for? Typically I'm a axe hatchet person when I can and so my knives tend to be thin and light so they perform at carving, camp kitchen duties, and cutting. A big brute like that is designed to be used and both a knife and chopping/splitting tool and is less than optimal at both IME. I agree there was a fault in the knife the warped blade was likley not a good sign. That said some advice. The tip is down and the handle prior to breaking was up. Many times when this happens the user was pushing down on the handle to help even this out while still beating on the blade with the baton at the other end. In this case I would have advised you hit the spine closer to the handle to even it out, but once the blade is too far in the wood make sure you don't hit the tip of the blade while putting downward force on the handle. The other thing and I can't be sure it appears that you batoned across the grain rather than with it. The grain of the wood should be as perpendicular to the edge of the knife as possible especially when working with larger sections of wood. This and using natural cracks in the wood to your advantage will make splitting easier on both you and the knife. Twisted and knotty wood will also be harder to split in this manor.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I wonder if they're plasma cutting these. It can cause embrittlement to the cut edge.

 

[Spyder59]

Nice descriptive post.

 

[mete]

It makes it much easier to diagnose if the photos show the fracture surface in focus !
It looks like there was a quench crack to the right of the screw hole .Forces later completely fractured the blade !
It's hard to go further without details of the entire HT.

 

[Other Doc]

Thank you for that great review.

 

[craytab]

Damn. And Boris isn't even here to see this!

Seriously though, glad Schrade took care of you. I'd sell the new one and get something else.

 

[marcinek]

So you had a hatchet, what was the point of the big thick heavy knife? I mean that to say what did you plan to use it for? Typically I'm a axe hatchet person when I can and so my knives tend to be thin and light so they perform at carving, camp kitchen duties, and cutting. A big brute like that is designed to be used and both a knife and chopping/splitting tool and is less than optimal at both IME.

So what? He had the knife, he wanted to bring it along and do with it what it was designed for. What does being "less than optimal" have to do with it? It sounds like you are blaming him for bringing the knife in the first place.

That said some advice. The tip is down and the handle prior to breaking was up. Many times when this happens the user was pushing down on the handle to help even this out while still beating on the blade with the baton at the other end. In this case I would have advised you hit the spine closer to the handle to even it out, but once the blade is too far in the wood make sure you don't hit the tip of the blade while putting downward force on the handle.

Not really. That is the opposite of the technique that causes this type of breakage during battoning. Its when the handle is below the point and the point is being hit...that's when the pressure is paced on that spot and knives can break. Pushing down on the handle when the point is below the handle does not put stress on that spot. The technique was fine.

The other thing and I can't be sure it appears that you batoned across the grain rather than with it. The grain of the wood should be as perpendicular to the edge of the knife as possible especially when working with larger sections of wood. This and using natural cracks in the wood to your advantage will make splitting easier on both you and the knife. Twisted and knotty wood will also be harder to split in this manor.

Looks along the grain to me. And I think you mean "parallel", not "perpendicular."

 

[Inazone]

. . .

You covered the bases before I got back to this thread, good sir. Thank you.

When all is said and done, in 20+ years of dealing with equipment vendors of all sorts, this has to be one of the smoothest warranty returns I've ever experienced. Furthermore, I get the feeling that Taylor/Schrade isn't some gigantic company in the grand scheme of things; the person I talked to on the phone is the same one who both called and emailed me to inform me that my knife had arrived AND sent out the replacement. I didn't need to specify a department or recipient's last name when I shipped my broken knife, and Taylor's email addresses are just "firstname@taylorbrands.com" which (in my experience) suggests a fairly small operation. Considering that their warranty doesn't seem to be very forgiving of misuse/abuse, I honestly expected to get raked over the coals on the phone, so it was refreshing to have such a straightforward exchange.

I'm not sure what I'll do with the replacement knife. After paying to return the broken one, as well as paying nearly MSRP for it in the first place (supporting the local "little guy") I'd lose money selling the replacement. Reviews on other sites suggest that the newer SCHF36s are better than the first batch, but I also have plenty of other knives that ought to get some quality outdoor time. For that matter, my old X-Timer still has a lot of life in it.

 

[buckfynn]

Nice detailed review. And I am glad to hear Taylor replaced the SCHF36 with no problems.

 

[Gaston444]

Forget these full tang knives and get something reliable, like a good hollow handle... Also get a bigger knife, as all these small knives seem to crack up anything you do to them, including the BK-2...

Most wood handle hatchet I've seen with any long-term use in them had loose heads... The Gerber Lexan handle "wrap-head" hatchet I have hasn't loosened in 20 years, but is actually not cheap (for a hatchet) at around $90 nowadays... Even sharp, it only outperforms by 30-40% my Randall Model 12 with about the same amount of extra weight... Not much to brag about except for the price...: An Ontario SP-52 knife will probably match the hatchet in price for performance, and be safer as well: I find the thick edge geometry of hatchets prone to "glancing blows" that can lead to self-injury...

Gaston

 

[craytab]

Forget these full tang knives and get something reliable, like a good hollow handle...

Lol, whut? Damn full tang knives!

 

[craytab]

So what? He had the knife, he wanted to bring it along and do with it what it was designed for. What does being "less than optimal" have to do with it? It sounds like you are blaming him for bringing the knife in the first place.



Not really. That is the opposite of the technique that causes this type of breakage during battoning. Its when the handle is below the point and the point is being hit...that's when the pressure is paced on that spot and knives can break. Pushing down on the handle when the point is below the handle does not put stress on that spot. The technique was fine.




Looks along the grain to me. And I think you mean "parallel", not "perpendicular."

I was going to respond to that post but didn't know quite how to go about it. Thanks for taking care of the problem! A lot of advice and words that had nothing to do with the subject.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

Forget these full tang knives and get something reliable, like a good hollow handle... Also get a bigger knife, as all these small knives seem to crack up anything you do to them, including the BK-2...

Most wood handle hatchet I've seen with any long-term use in them had loose heads... The Gerber Lexan handle "wrap-head" hatchet I have hasn't loosened in 20 years, but is actually not cheap (for a hatchet) at around $90 nowadays... Even sharp, it only outperforms by 30-40% my Randall Model 12 with about the same amount of extra weight... Not much to brag about except for the price...: An Ontario SP-52 knife will probably match the hatchet in price for performance, and be safer as well: I find the thick edge geometry of hatchets prone to "glancing blows" that can lead to self-injury...

Gaston

I found the Gerber hatchet you described for $24. If it's keeping up with a Randall that costs an order of magnitude more and has done so for 20 years I can tell you which one I'd buy to chop wood. It sounds like you haven't changed the geometry since you mention it being too thick, so thin it out and you'll see even more of a performance increase.

Knives are more versatile than hatchets, but all things being equal hatchets just chop better. Just the way the physics of the situation work.

 

[marcinek]

You covered the bases before I got back to this thread, good sir. Thank you.

My pleasure. Glad to know Schrade took care of you so efficiently and quickly. That is "points for them," as far as I'm concerned. Now they just have to work on their knives not breaking! :thumbup:

 

[jonnyt16]

...Not thrilled to see that this model was made in China instead of Taiwan...

'Nuff said.

I don't know why all these new Schrades are so popular all of a sudden. To me they look like something you'd see at a Walmart.

 

[killgar]

Just goes to show that you should test your gear at home before heading out into the field where your life might depend on it.

 

[EChoil]

Glad to hear they replaced your knife.

Hope you don't baton with a $50 folder anymore just to test it. This should always be a last resort even with a fine knife. Use a fixed or that hatchet.

A lot of us have done it but we all know it's not the best thing to do.

 

[Inazone]

Just goes to show that you should test your gear at home before heading out into the field where your life might depend on it.

This was, in fact, a test. I routinely bring a few knives along on such trips to entertain myself at the end of the day. The hatchet and saw were always within reach.

Hope you don't baton with a $50 folder anymore just to test it. This should always be a last resort even with a fine knife. Use a fixed or that hatchet.

It's a fixed blade knife.