The Fallacy of Bugging Out

Shoichi Yokoi survived for many years but he was not competing with thousands of other survivalists.

The entire point of bugging out is to AVOID contact with others...not to "compete" or assemble with them. Shoichi lived in a cave for 27 years, the last eight years by himself (think about that for a while).

Bugging out can be done, it isn't a fallacy. Does the name Eric Rudolph sound familiar? Disappeared in the Appalachians, even with the FBI conducting extensive searches and offering $1M rewards, he was "gone" for over 5 years.

These are just examples that made the news. This not only confirms that "disappearing" or "bugging out" is possible, it is, in fact, documented by these individuals.
 
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When I was much younger I was under the mistaken notion that I could rely on my strengths and skills to weather any storm. That notion didn't really last very long. Now days at much older, I don't think I could survive much longer than my daily prescriptions held out.

WORD!

Despite my gear, skills, contacts, preps............despite all that, I am at the point where my existance is more dependent on the local pharmacy being in stock with my BP and other needed meds. :eek:
 
More good stuff! Thanks :)

Agreed @james terrio, I could probably also stay alive for a week or two, but it would be a miserable, stressful, cold, wet, hungry, and dull two weeks. After the first 3 day stretch of bad luck with the fishing, trapping and hunting I would go into a caloric deficit that impairs my ability to function. After that it’s just a few more days until I am too weak to hunt and gather. From there things get less rosy.

@sgi yeah the short term regional emergency is also the most likely threat in my book. I’ll be hunkering down for those in most cases, or relocating to be with friends and family who were not affected by the event. The other credible threat is a local disaster centered on me. This could be something like a house fire or anything that forces me out of my home. For that I plan to relocate to be with friends and family.

I made a packing list for restarting my life elsewhere in case anyone is interested. These things would ideally be stored off site, perhaps in a safety deposit box.
1.Personal Information Management (PIM) system with backups: Proof of identity, proof of ownership, proof of insurance, qualification certificates, contact information, legal documents (marriage, birth etc) and any other documents you will need to restart your life somewhere else. An encrypted thumb-drive in a go bag works.

2. Money: Cash, checks, debit and credit cards, the information required for online banking, enough of a savings-buffer to be able to walk away. Money is easier to transport than stuff.

3. Communications: Phone/Smartphone/laptop. Being able to keep in touch with the rest of the world is invaluable in a disaster scenario. Modern phones have GPS units, maps, access to the internet, weather and news services.

4. A plan: Do not just walk out the door aimlessly. Where are you going, how are you getting there, do your loved ones know the plan? Have a backupplan and the items that will get you there. Also have a plan for what happens when you get to where you are going.

5. A means of transport: Walking is your last resort, and riding a bike is only a little better. Motorized transport is the way to go even if that means taking a bus.
@darthstevel yeah it would be a logistical nightmare, especially with children in tow. I also do not believe in the total breakdown but agree there are a few useful nuggets of information in among the doom and gloom. Mostly the good stuff is about how to deal with logistical problems. Even a stocked retreat is dependent on trade for the items they cannot manufacture themselves. Think parts for a broken water purification system, or a well pump.

@22-rimfire yeah most people regardless of skill level would likely succumb to one thing or the other. Also, I agree that looting would probably be one of the quicker ways to cash your ticket. Even in those situations where a large portion of the population was forced out, I doubt going it alone would be a good option.

@Tobii3: I guess both of those guys managed to stay away from society for a prolonged time. One was a hiding out in guam which is warm year round so food is relatively easy to come by. Very few of us here live in such a nice climate. I imagine he also lived off the scraps of society to some extent. The other was hiding out in the Appalachian mountains either getting resupplied by family and friends or stealing from people in the system, raiding garbage cans and breaking into houses. I would not use these two cases as proof that bugging out is universally applicable. They are more exceptions. If Rudolph had help then his accomplishment is nothing special, in any case he was still living off society by looting. Drawing conclusion from Stoichi is false since he was the last man standing; there is no data on how many of those who went into hiding died.

@all the rest: :thumbup:, thanks for sharing.
 
Very interesting discussion. I'm amused but not surprised at some of the responses. Personally, I've always felt that bugging in is preferable over bugging out. Having said that, I've also felt that there are situations that make bugging out necessary. Each family has to make their own decisions regarding this. Everyone must take a good long look at the advantages/disadvantages of bugging out or staying put in every situation.

Not everyone is able to bug out and make it. Some couldn't survive two days in their own backyard if they had to. Some can't fathom to think of a world without electricity, job security, running water, medical facilities and grocery stores.

Bugging out is entirely doable but you not only have to have the the right gear, you have to have the right mindset. Just look at the guy in Utah who staid on the lamb for 6 years by living off others in the mountains or the Hermit who basically did the same in Maine for 27 years. I guarantee you there are families living off the grid in places like Alaska, Canada and rural Western and Eastern states that probably wouldn't notice much in case of a economic collapse or a collapse of the power grid. I remember my Grandparents talking about the Great Depression. I would ask them how life was like during that time and they would laugh and say it was like any other time. They said the only people who had it rough were those who were accustomed to making a living off of others. Since they already lived a rural sustainable life style, they didn't notice much difference when the chips fell.

I, along with about a million or so others, had a great training event occur called Hurricane Ike. We lived just North of Houston at the time Ike hit. Our area was out of power for 12 days. Other areas were out of power and water for as long as 6 weeks. After about the 3rd day of people not having food, water or gas for their vehicles, you got to see their true natures!

We lived a ways out of town but on the "poor" side of the county. So help was last getting to us. If you didn't already have food or water, you went and waited in line for a hand out. It was about a week before a local C-store had gas available. It was the only gas around and it was being guarded by State Troopers. You were limited to the amount of gas you could buy. I think it was either five or ten gallons. People were standing in line holding their empty gas can waiting their turn to buy gas. The days I saw these lines they were about a several hundred yards long. There were stories of people waiting all day just to get the chance to buy gas. It was an eye opener for sure. I kept asking my Wife "You taking notes?"

We would go into town just to look around and see how people were functioning. We actually stood in line to get into a Wal-Mart Super Center. When we finally got inside, it was so eerie to see bare shelves isle after isle. About the only thing they had was milk, baby formula and some other basics. You see real quick what people will eat and what they won't. I found it funny that there were quite a few cans of Van Camps Red Beans and Rice left on one isle but nothing else.

After a few days of people having to wait in line every day for their little portion of ice, water and a few MRE's, tempers started to flair. There were worse stories of violence inside Houston itself but even outside of town where we were, fights at these "relief centers" were not uncommon.

We did alright. We had food stocked up along with water. The only thing I didn't have that I wish I had was a generator. But even without one, we got by just fine. We had offers from family to "bug out" up here to Oklahoma until things got better, but I saw no reason to leave. Besides, I was learning a lot about society and what extremes people will go to when they don't have luxuries such as running water, electricity and a TV! One night while sitting around grilling the last of the meat from the freezer, my Wife turned to me and said "You're actually enjoying this aren't you?" All I could say is "Yeah, kinda". Had we lived in inside Houston surrounded by a large population of people, I'm sure my answer would have been different. In that case, I'm sure we would have bugged out.

Katrina was also another fine example of what can happen if you fail to prepare. A lot of people were removed from their homes by force and moved to the "Relief Camps" or to the Super Dome. Many were bussed out of town and out of state! If you forgot what kind of horrors went on in the Super Dome, just look it up. I will refuse to be relocated to any such place should I find myself in such circumstances. That's one reason we have about 8 different places planned as bug out locations should the need arise. Some are fairly close, a few are in other states. We've been to these locations many times and are comfortable staying in these areas for extended amounts of time. It may not be home, but we can certainly 'get by' if we have to.

If a situation occurred where we did have to bug out, I don't really worry about the "hoards" of survivalist or other people who've bugged out competing with me and my family for food. For one, most won't make it out that far and second, most of the others will be waiting for their hand outs at the "relief centers".
 
@Tobii3: I guess both of those guys managed to stay away from society for a prolonged time. One was a hiding out in guam which is warm year round so food is relatively easy to come by. Very few of us here live in such a nice climate. I imagine he also lived off the scraps of society to some extent. The other was hiding out in the Appalachian mountains either getting resupplied by family and friends or stealing from people in the system, raiding garbage cans and breaking into houses. I would not use these two cases as proof that bugging out is universally applicable. They are more exceptions. If Rudolph had help then his accomplishment is nothing special, in any case he was still living off society by looting. Drawing conclusion from Stoichi is false since he was the last man standing; there is no data on how many of those who went into hiding died.

@all the rest: :thumbup:, thanks for sharing.

Both of these men survived by stealing and by terrorizing the local population. I think the locals even tried hunting Stoichi down. Not a great plan unless it's your last resort.
 
I'm glad to see the realistic viewpoints here.

Dunno for sure why, but ever since I was young I seemed to have a hunter/survivalist mindset. It is possibly because I was born about ten years after the second world war and people around me would have been affected by the brutality, the hardship and the shortages and these topics would have been always on their mind.

I remember a question discussed with other kids at a very young age was: "what would you do if a war came?"

I feel that I have a good knowledge of hunting, fishing, gardening and foraging. I am a practical guy and I've built all sorts of things. I have made, and successfully hunted with, my own bows and arrows. I've used simple snares to catch hundreds of animals. I've forged steel to make knives and tomahawks using a forge that was nothing more than a shallow hole filled with charcoal. And I own plenty of knives and other useful gear. Furthermore, my family have a property in a fairly isolated area on an island. I would guess that if I had to, I could probably live for many years without being part of a large group.

But I wouldn't really want to.

Although I'm thinking that I could survive with missing or no teeth, I can't do my own dental work. I like to share a joke with others and I get satisfaction from serving or helping folks. I have older relatives and grandchildren and friends and people that I don't even know yet who I might have a chance to assist. I love to sing, but I'd miss going to my weekly singing workshop... and who the heck would be the audience to give me feedback out in the boonies even if I felt it was safe to make a loud noise? And if I did manage to stumble across a pianist in the wilderness, he/she would be unlikely to have a piano in their backpack.

Yes, I could bug out and probably do quite well at it. I even fancy myself as being the sort of dude that an invading army would find to be a pain in the butt. But I hope that we never find ourselves in a situation needing such dire actions.

But it doesn't hurt to contemplate such things.
 
Stay at home with water, food, ammo and supplies...or get foot-rot in the damp woods while I try to find enough bugs to eat?
Gee willikers, that's a really tough choice to make.:D
 
I would think that if you had a place to bug out to, you would be much better off than relying on a BOB. BOB is whats supposed to get you to a predetermined location. A vehicle would be even better. And the locale shouldn't be permanent, just a place to wait out the worst of whatever situation percipitated the need to get out of Dodge. I always imagined that an ecological distaster would force a bugout, such as an extreme crop blight, resource crunch, economic collapse, etc. War was never anything my family considered to any great degree. just my 2 cents.
 
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When I was much younger I was under the mistaken notion that I could rely on my strengths and skills to weather any storm. That notion didn't really last very long. Now days at much older, I don't think I could survive much longer than my daily prescriptions held out.

If I ever need to bug out I'm stopping at the pharmacy first. Maybe you should start practicing the ancient and noble art of med hording.
 
Very interesting discussion. I'm amused but not surprised at some of the responses. Personally, I've always felt that bugging in is preferable over bugging out. Having said that, I've also felt that there are situations that make bugging out necessary. Each family has to make their own decisions regarding this. Everyone must take a good long look at the advantages/disadvantages of bugging out or staying put in every situation.

Not everyone is able to bug out and make it. Some couldn't survive two days in their own backyard if they had to. Some can't fathom to think of a world without electricity, job security, running water, medical facilities and grocery stores.

Bugging out is entirely doable but you not only have to have the the right gear, you have to have the right mindset. Just look at the guy in Utah who staid on the lamb for 6 years by living off others in the mountains or the Hermit who basically did the same in Maine for 27 years. I guarantee you there are families living off the grid in places like Alaska, Canada and rural Western and Eastern states that probably wouldn't notice much in case of a economic collapse or a collapse of the power grid. I remember my Grandparents talking about the Great Depression. I would ask them how life was like during that time and they would laugh and say it was like any other time. They said the only people who had it rough were those who were accustomed to making a living off of others. Since they already lived a rural sustainable life style, they didn't notice much difference when the chips fell.

I, along with about a million or so others, had a great training event occur called Hurricane Ike. We lived just North of Houston at the time Ike hit. Our area was out of power for 12 days. Other areas were out of power and water for as long as 6 weeks. After about the 3rd day of people not having food, water or gas for their vehicles, you got to see their true natures!

We lived a ways out of town but on the "poor" side of the county. So help was last getting to us. If you didn't already have food or water, you went and waited in line for a hand out. It was about a week before a local C-store had gas available. It was the only gas around and it was being guarded by State Troopers. You were limited to the amount of gas you could buy. I think it was either five or ten gallons. People were standing in line holding their empty gas can waiting their turn to buy gas. The days I saw these lines they were about a several hundred yards long. There were stories of people waiting all day just to get the chance to buy gas. It was an eye opener for sure. I kept asking my Wife "You taking notes?"

We would go into town just to look around and see how people were functioning. We actually stood in line to get into a Wal-Mart Super Center. When we finally got inside, it was so eerie to see bare shelves isle after isle. About the only thing they had was milk, baby formula and some other basics. You see real quick what people will eat and what they won't. I found it funny that there were quite a few cans of Van Camps Red Beans and Rice left on one isle but nothing else.

After a few days of people having to wait in line every day for their little portion of ice, water and a few MRE's, tempers started to flair. There were worse stories of violence inside Houston itself but even outside of town where we were, fights at these "relief centers" were not uncommon.

We did alright. We had food stocked up along with water. The only thing I didn't have that I wish I had was a generator. But even without one, we got by just fine. We had offers from family to "bug out" up here to Oklahoma until things got better, but I saw no reason to leave. Besides, I was learning a lot about society and what extremes people will go to when they don't have luxuries such as running water, electricity and a TV! One night while sitting around grilling the last of the meat from the freezer, my Wife turned to me and said "You're actually enjoying this aren't you?" All I could say is "Yeah, kinda". Had we lived in inside Houston surrounded by a large population of people, I'm sure my answer would have been different. In that case, I'm sure we would have bugged out.

Katrina was also another fine example of what can happen if you fail to prepare. A lot of people were removed from their homes by force and moved to the "Relief Camps" or to the Super Dome. Many were bussed out of town and out of state! If you forgot what kind of horrors went on in the Super Dome, just look it up. I will refuse to be relocated to any such place should I find myself in such circumstances. That's one reason we have about 8 different places planned as bug out locations should the need arise. Some are fairly close, a few are in other states. We've been to these locations many times and are comfortable staying in these areas for extended amounts of time. It may not be home, but we can certainly 'get by' if we have to.

If a situation occurred where we did have to bug out, I don't really worry about the "hoards" of survivalist or other people who've bugged out competing with me and my family for food. For one, most won't make it out that far and second, most of the others will be waiting for their hand outs at the "relief centers".
This is a very good take on the topic at hand. Sure it's easy bug in but when you have to leave the key is not to become a refugee. Mel Tappen wrote great books on this subject but always stressed that the lone wolf approach was a dead end way to go about it.
I hope that the pioneer spirit in all of us is still there and the end result is yes we can still make it. The key is to live in your bug out locale. Too bad the urban sprawl has taken away alot of these spots. Great conversation none the less!
 
I have a bug out strategy that is based in reality.

I will be bugging out to ny parents house. It is walking distance, if cars are not an option. My folks have about 2 years of food. Water. Generator. Fule. Filters. About a year of wood to burn. Their house is on high ground with no possibility of flooding. They have a good sized garden that produces way more than they can eat.

Of course, at my place I have about 4 or more months of food. Liquid fuel stove. Gravity fed filter, and a dual bbq that can run on the gas and charcoal, or wood.

If the situation requires, I can stay ror leave. Without somewhere to go, I am staying put. I have wilderness areas that I can go to with hundreds of islands. Lots of fish, deer, beaver, duck, geese, rabbits etc. I'm not planning on going there unless I'm camping.
 
If society collapses permanently, the biggest easiest resource to exploit will be other people. To my mind, bugging out is about not becoming the exploited.
 
There is a reason why in the old times to punish someone a tribe would exile someone which would really mean a death sentence.. All you have to do is twist your ankle and you could die very slowly from starvation.
Do you want to survive from day to day or do you want to actualy live??? We have a you tube of an Amazon tribe that shows what it really takes to live out in the wilderness. I wonder how long most of them would survive if they have to live lone wolf style out there.. living alone in the wilderness is more of modern idea then from people who actualy live in the wilderness.
 
Appreciate this thread. I agree that natural disaster is a good thing to plan for. Please remember that the most common disaster is still a fire at home. Good to have a plan to get out quick and live in a hotel, or stay with friends and family, as you put your family's life back together. Learn to survive the insurance companies and their lawyers. Photos and documents really help. Maybe these comments are not appropriate for this forum, so take them down as appropriate.

Spud
 
I think the concept of bugging out can be viable... if you actually have somewhere to go.

It is just common sense to have a kit of some kind that allows you to have a few essential items in case your house burns down, or your vehicle gets stuck in snow, or a tornado/earthquake/hurricane/forest fire comes your way.

For a time, I lived in a town 3 hours from home to attend college. In the slim chance that some catastrophe would occur and disrupt the normal functioning of society, my goal would have been to get home to our farm. There, we have a few hundred acres, some livestock, and wild game. But more importantly, we have family and neighbors we know and trust who we could work together with, or barter with. In this situation, "bugging out" was a means to get to my resources and my community, not an attempt to remove myself from it.

Bugging out with the intention of remaining in a continual state of bugging out is folly for all the reasons already stated in this discussion.

Another issue that has not yet been brought up is this. When someone thinks they're going to "head for the hills" or go live "in the woods", somebody already owns "the hills" and "the woods". Sure, there are a few truly wilderness place left these days, but the vast majority of land is privately owned. This is especially true here in the midwest.

If you bug out and go to someone else's property and start taking their resources, you are trespassing and stealing. Crops, timber, livestock are not there for you to take as you please in your time of need, someone owns them. Most likely you will be shot for looting, and justifiably so.
 
Bugging in as long as you can is always best. However sometime the scenario doesn't always allow that. Being prepared for both is wise. Lets say a dirty bomb is set off and the radioactive cloud is going to rain down on your house...bugging out is your only option. If you live in the city...which has zero self sustaining resources...you will be bugging out within 3 days. If a city is not feed gas, food, and other resources it will fail. There are no farms and every material needs to be trucked in. if there is a. Problem or shortage of gas for any number of reasons, the city will collapse. A city will last no more then 3 day with out trucks bringing in gas, foot, and so on. Sticking around depending on what is causing this shortage might be foolish.

Also, sometimes you don't have a choice to go at it alone. Whether disaster strikes and you are away from home becuase of work or travel...your options are limited. Being prepared for every situation is smart. There is no way to know so covering our options is the best bet whether it is bailing out or bugging in.
 
I lived alone in the Alaska wilds for almost 25 years and had the skills. Decided Man is a social – herd being and what happens to the group happens to the individual. If any of us survive the ‘heading for and going off the cliff like lemming’ it will be the luck of the draw. Which rabbits will survive the rabbit cycle drop? If anything helps, it might be the ability to be adaptable and able to think on your feet, adjust to change, common sense etc. Survival in the wilds is 90% to not panic, not the tools we carry
 
I have a bug out strategy that is based in reality.

I will be bugging out to ny parents house. It is walking distance, if cars are not an option. My folks have about 2 years of food. Water. Generator. Fule. Filters. About a year of wood to burn. Their house is on high ground with no possibility of flooding. They have a good sized garden that produces way more than they can eat.

Of course, at my place I have about 4 or more months of food. Liquid fuel stove. Gravity fed filter, and a dual bbq that can run on the gas and charcoal, or wood.

If the situation requires, I can stay ror leave. Without somewhere to go, I am staying put. I have wilderness areas that I can go to with hundreds of islands. Lots of fish, deer, beaver, duck, geese, rabbits etc. I'm not planning on going there unless I'm camping.
Sounds like a solid plan. Add backups to important documents in case of fire and the like and you are set.

When bugging out is about getting to another location then it has a chance of working, but when bugging out is the destination then it's a bad idea. That's why I never really understood a lot of bug out bags, they are filled with items for hunting and gathering, instead of the through-hiking.
 
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I lived alone in the Alaska wilds for almost 25 years and had the skills. Decided Man is a social – herd being and what happens to the group happens to the individual. If any of us survive the ‘heading for and going off the cliff like lemming’ it will be the luck of the draw. Which rabbits will survive the rabbit cycle drop? If anything helps, it might be the ability to be adaptable and able to think on your feet, adjust to change, common sense etc. Survival in the wilds is 90% to not panic, not the tools we carry
Impressive. I'd be interested in hearing more about that experience.
 
Doesn't everyone have caches? Not so much the buried in a far away locale ones, nothing wrong with that but to have extra supplies at a friends or relatives.
Back in my AF days we would have clothes and such kept at different people's homes whether it was down the street or across the country. You could be at Fairchild and have stuff at Lackland, Pope, Moody, Hulbert, and be as prepared with things at a friends cabin near the Colville National Forest.
A BOB to me, is to get you along till you can get to your next point of contact.
 
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