the fallacy of firesteels

Mastalerz said:
Firesteels are good because unlike matches and lighters you can get them wet. Another great thing to carry however is some type of easily flammable starter. Whether it's Vaseline cotton balls, dryer lint, the sticks you but at sporting stores, etc. another great skill to have is making bird nests, these things are pretty easily made and a lot of people don't really know how to. Tinder is just as important as whatever ignition source you're using.
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This is my opinion as well. I don't carry matches as they have always been finnicky for me. A firesteel and some man made tinder like fire straws have been far superior than matches IME. Much more reliable.
 
In a situation where you NEED to build a fire, fast, you are probably going to be wet, very cold (poor or no fine motor skills) and STRESSED OUT; maybe to the point of panic. You are not going to want to have to fiddle around with shaving wood curls, scraping magnesium, fluffing up PJCBs, etc. -- if you are even capable of it at the time! Think about the times you've started campfires in poor conditions... it can be frustrating sometimes, and that's with no stress or impending hypothermia.

Earlier this month, I did a solo canoe trip in the ADKs where the night-time lows got into the 20's and the water temps were probably in the 50's. I like to duck hunt and ice-fish, too. I have fallen out of my canoe in the duck marsh in November, I have fallen through the ice on a frozen lake and have put my pick-up truck through the ice. Being able to make a fire is a necessary skill for me. I, personally, WOULD NOT bet my life on my being able to make a fire with a firesteel under the worst environmental and mental conditions. I carry one when I'm out, though. It has some PJCBs in the waterproof capsule that serves as its handle. But I also have a Bic and a match safe full of the wonderful UCO storm/lifeboat matches, some firestraws and a chunk of fatwood.

I'll put my money on the lifeboat matches every time. I'm going to buy some small Thermite fire starters so I can put one in a pocket of my paddling PFDs and have one to carry while ice fishing, late-season canoeing, etc.. I think one's best chances are with the special matches and some good (or, in the case of the Thermite fire-starters; crazy good) tinder.

Stay sharp,
desmobob
 
Good initial post bud. I agree. Fire steels are not the be all, end all. But I do believe in them as another reliable option. One of many redundant options. I HAVE been in extreme cold in an isolated location were just a few minutes make a difference in hand function. Even with a lighter the shoreline winter grass was reluctant to ignite. I have learned a lot from the members here and this knowledge has expanded my options in potentially bad scenarios. I try to practice worst case scenarios in the good times to be prepared for a bad situation. On my key chain is a Light My Fire rod slathered in clear silicone, then it has a chunk of clear plastic fuel line over it. This tool is inert and impervious to the weather. It should stay uncorroded for years as an untouched last ditch back up. I have lighters and fatwood coming out of my wazoo and I practice in various weather conditions with various materials. I even ran through mental options in your opening scenario which I found reassuring. I never want to be one of the people found curled up dead under a tree because they wouldn't or couldn't nut up and think to make it through. I am investing in prior basic prep and knowledge on this sub forum. Maybe one day something passed down from a forum member here will save my or a loved ones life. I appreciate that fact, and try to acknowledge it publicly.
 
Another thing I want to add to this thread: how many of us have seen the guy at a fire with the gasoline and lighter? Just throwing wood and gasoline on top and it's constantly going out? It doesn't matter what you have, if you don't know the basics of building a fire then whatever your using really doesn't matter. If you can't process wood and realize what you're working with then all the gasoline in the world won't sustain the fire on it's own.
 
Firesteels are not the first choice for me.

In normal conditions I'll use a lighter or matches to light my tinder. There is usually some sort of commercial tinder involved to speed up the process. Solid fuels like esbit/trioxane/wet fire are a favorite. So are candles since you can have the candle burning on the side while you play with the tinder, the candle can then be blown out and reused next time you need it.

For emergency fires in extreme cold or wet conditions you want better methods. Emergency flares, thermite fire starters, blowtorches, camp stoves, and if in a real pinch high risk options like petroleum products. In extreme cold packing a spare set of clothes in a waterproof bag, and bringing along temperature appropriate shelter is probably a better bet though. It takes a long time to build a big fire, light it, and then wait for it to heat you up.

Bringing along a personal location beacon will also improve your odds greatly.
 
Mastalerz said:
Historically speaking though many people during those time periods died of starvation and exposure, even large armies which were properly supported had many deaths out of combat that we call attrition, and those deaths were due to starvation, dehydration, exposure, sickness. While many people don't possess the same skills humans had back then, it isn't like everyone back then were masters of these skills and easily started fires with flint and steel or were as to live off the land. Many of these people were supported by civilization, even nomadic tribes such as the mongols who were no doubt very skilled raided cities and villages constantly to support themselves. The thing that makes some of these mountain men so well known and extra ordinary or even steppe tribes for that matter were their unique ability to survive when many people during the same time period would of died. No doubt things like waterproof matches and Firesteels would have saved many lives back then.
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People always have and always will die from everything under the sun. I most certainly prefer modern fire starting methods to primitive means for getting the job done.
 
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I agree with the OP. I haven't used a fire steel since I was a boyscout. While I feel that they have their value in extended situations for lighting fires repeatedly, they definitely are not what I would reach for in an emergency situation, and certainly not what I reach for when I need to start fires in normal circumstances.

There is a reason that, smokers for example, don't carry around a pocket knife and a tin with some flint and punk in it. Matches and lighters were developed because they are better and more efficient at what they do than sparkers.

Millions of people who could probably not start a fire with flint and steel to save their lives can now, in a moment of stupidity or negligence, start a fire that can burn down an entire national forest, thanks to the Bic lighter.

Personally, 99% of the time, if I need to start a fire, the only fire tool I will use is a lighter. A lighter, and a properly set up fire base is all you need.

And this is key: A properly set up fire base. You must - and I cannot emphasize must enough - prepare your fire structure correctly. Try as you might, you cannot set fire to a soaked, dripping wet, wrist thick branch by itself, whether you have a fire steel, matches, or a flamethrower. Especially if you are cold, scared, tired, you must realize that you have to put the work in to set up the fire, or you will not have the fire. Choose the correct location, spend the time preparing the materials before you strike a spark, match, or lighter. Don't waste time, effort, and materials on something that doesn't start strong. Don't try to feed a failing fire. Set yourself up right from the start.

In the OP's scenario, the only things I would have on me would be the knife - in my pocket - and the lighter - in my fishing vest. I would have to start that fire with a lighter. And I would.
 
Matches. Just ask Jack London. http://www.kingkong.demon.co.uk/gsr/fire.htm

He was angry, and cursed his luck aloud. He had hoped to get into camp with the boys at six o'clock, and this would delay him an hour, for he would have to build a fire and dry out his footgear. This was imperative at that low temperature – for he knew that much; and he turned aside to the bank, which he climbed. On top, tangled in the underbrush about the trunks of several small spruce trees, was a high water deposit of dry firewood – sticks and twigs, principally, but also larger portions of seasoned branches and fine, dry, last year's grasses. He threw down several large pieces on top of the snow. This served for a foundation and prevented the young flame from drowning itself in the snow it otherwise would melt. The flame he got by touching a match to a small shred of birch bark that he took from his pocket. This burned even more readily than paper. Placing it on the foundation, he fed the young flame with wisps of dry grass and with the tiniest dry twigs.
 
I remember this thread starting last year and I didn't post initially b/c, well, it seemed to be more skewed toward sparking debate than to honestly discussing fire-steels as a means to procure fire.

So, I'm posting now b/c there has been a good, healthy discussion despite the initial post so it makes sense to add to a discussion.

For me, using a fire-steel is not as easy as using a Bic lighter or matches - no question in that. However, it's important to keep in mind that making a fire is sooooo much more than making an initial spark which is all a fire-steel will do. I practice using my fire-steel to ensure I can get a spark from it, but to make a fire I make sure I have everything else needed (dry tinder/dry kindling/dry wood).

The spark is only one part. I also use birthday candles to extend what a spark does for me - ignite dry tinder. Basically I try to create as many good options/pathways as possible. If I'm in an emergency and I *need* a fire I want the best, fastest, easiest way possible because I probably won't be 100%.
 
fmajor007 said:
I remember this thread starting last year and I didn't post initially b/c, well, it seemed to be more skewed toward sparking debate than to honestly discussing fire-steels as a means to procure fire.

So, I'm posting now b/c there has been a good, healthy discussion despite the initial post so it makes sense to add to a discussion.

For me, using a fire-steel is not as easy as using a Bic lighter or matches - no question in that. However, it's important to keep in mind that making a fire is sooooo much more than making an initial spark which is all a fire-steel will do. I practice using my fire-steel to ensure I can get a spark from it, but to make a fire I make sure I have everything else needed (dry tinder/dry kindling/dry wood).

The spark is only one part. I also use birthday candles to extend what a spark does for me - ignite dry tinder. Basically I try to create as many good options/pathways as possible. If I'm in an emergency and I *need* a fire I want the best, fastest, easiest way possible because I probably won't be 100%.
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Then there are the "trick" birthday candles - the ones that only go out if submerged in water.
 
The premise was lighting a fire after going for a swim. Good luck with a soaked Bic lighter-which you can light with a firesteel, btw.
Prepped tinder, trioxane tabs, etc light just as easy with a firesteel as a lighter. I carry trioxane tabs, and both a lighter and firesteel, so which is "better" is a moot point.
In seriously wet conditions, starting a fire can be much less of a challenge than maintaining one.
 
OwenM said:
The premise was lighting a fire after going for a swim. Good luck with a soaked Bic lighter-which you can light with a firesteel, btw.
Prepped tinder, trioxane tabs, etc light just as easy with a firesteel as a lighter. I carry trioxane tabs, and both a lighter and firesteel, so which is "better" is a moot point.
In seriously wet conditions, starting a fire can be much less of a challenge than maintaining one.
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Agreed. I used to spend a lot of time in the field in some very wet parts of the globe, and while I carried a lighter (in a small nalgene "spice" bottle for waterproofing) I also frequently saw them fail at the least exposure to moisture, at least until they were dried out again.

Playing around with making fires is one thing - being in a situation where you truly need a fire is something else entirely. Have multiple options - for ignition and tinder.
 
I like the ESEE knives one due to having a water-tight compartment to carry its own dry tinder in.
Plus, it has a compass too. :thumbup:

Kind of pricey, but it looks cool, works well, and isn't too big.
 
sutured said:
So people cary their own tinder...vasaline on cotton, dryer lint, hand sanitizer (one of the dumbest IMO), and every other conceivably portable gimmick that might catch fire from a spark. This is all well and fine and there are conditions where carrying your own tinder makes good sense regardless of your ignition source, but it pretty much defeats any of the proposed advantages of the firesteel. Proponents of the 'steel say it's simple, reliable, long lasting, waterproof, and compact, and all of that is true, but not if you have to cary your tinder with you.
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sort of like how if you carry matches you'll need a waterproof container and a striker?

stuck in a survival situation, you're most likely going to have work for that fire regardless of any preparations made.

i understand what you're getting at though (matches don't require that same specific dry tinder that firesteels do) but if you forget your match striker or the waterproof container fails, that's an even worse situation.

good post but perhaps a little over thought.
 
four_shore said:
sort of like how if you carry matches you'll need a waterproof container and a striker?
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Exactly. For the same bulk as a match case I can carry a firesteel and several fire straws which are a lot less finnicky then matches. If you're the type that likes matches that's cool but don't try and tell me that matches are better then a firesteel AND pre made tinder. I just don't buy it.
 
OK so this is an old thread but I recently got back into knife-making and wanted to reply. I found that I have a few cutoffs from handle making and would be perfect for inserting a .200" ish or so diameter fire steel thingy in the castoff wood. Back in the day when I was a Boy Scout in the Klondike Derby (those Scouts in the NE may know of what I speak) we used steel wool as a part of the tinder. We used real flint and steel to spark into the Steel wool and it took a bit of practice as it always does but it was a good starter and always worked no matter what the conditions. The Altoids can that's everywhere on the survivalist pages is a good start to store your combustibles and whatever. I'm not a fanatic but it pays to have at least something prepared in advance of when you need it. Mike
 
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sonictek said:
OK so this is an old thread but I recently got back into knife-making and wanted to reply. I found that I have a few cutoffs from handle making and would be perfect for inserting a .200" ish or so diameter fire steel thingy in the castoff wood. Back in the day when I was a Boy Scout in the Klondike Derby (those Scouts in the NE may know of what I speak) we used steel wool as a part of the tinder. We used real flint and steel to spark into the Steel wool and it took a bit of practice as it always does but it was a good starter and always worked no matter what the conditions. The Altoids can that's everywhere on the survivalist pages is a good start to store your combustibles and whatever. I'm not a fanatic but it pays to have at least something prepared in advance of when you need it. Mike
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The first Klondike Derby, by that name, was held in New Jersey in 1949. Now, they are held from coast to coast and surprisingly far south - like Kentucky. Southwestern areas with mountains, like Arizona also have them. Steel wool is still used as tinder, especially when using batteries or magnifying glasses.
 
Firesteels have become fashionable for sure but don't play the player ...play the ball.

Why is your daypack 1/4 mile away ...on your person in such cold conditions you should have basics fire starting items., BTW, after falling in the water the lighter is useless.

Tinder compartment .... because when you are cold and wet there is nothing as quick and water proof as a cottonball with petroleum jelly on. You cannot touch your pinky to the thumb but now you want to go hunt for tinder? Sure way to get the hurt on.

Problem is not the firesteel .... it's the lack of skill that is hidden under a lot of hype.

All comes down to skills and what works for you.

I carry a lighter for that easy fire start but a waterproof combination of petroleum gel soaked cotton balls and firesteel will work even if wet.

Cheers from Africa

Aubrey
 
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I use a firesteel more than any other fire starting gear.

Not because it's better, not because it's "bombproof" but because it gives me practice.

If I can easily get tinder, kindling and fire wood gathered, prepped and started using a firesteel it will be that much easier with a match, lighter, torch or whatever else.

Again, life threatening situation I'm reaching for my road flare. Back up to that is the storm matches in a KM match case.
 
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