THE Hollow Handle Knife Thread

Just because I test it for throwing doesn't mean I consider this the only purpose of a spear. Throwing is a good way of testing the attachment integrity.

One thing I will test on the spear attachment is using nails (light and easy to include within the sheath), and also not just wrapping the rope round and round, but instead making individually tensioned rope segments. Whatever the solution is, a truly stable attachment is not an easy goal...

Aside from this, it has occurred to me nails have all sorts of obvious shelter-building uses, and really belong on a Survival Knife to begin with (certainly more than the ubiquitous skull-crushing pommel!)...

Despite a quite favourable initial impression (for fine edge holding in light use), edge holding turned out to be poor on the Oryx Raider II when doing really heavy chopping (distortions mostly): You were quite right to distrust the vague "440" labelling in the end...

Gaston
 
Gaston444 said:
Just because I test it for throwing doesn't mean I consider this the only purpose of a spear. Throwing is a good way of testing the attachment integrity.

One thing I will test on the spear attachment is using nails (light and easy to include within the sheath), and also not just wrapping the rope round and round, but instead making individually tensioned rope segments. Whatever the solution is, a truly stable attachment is not an easy goal...

Aside from this, it has occurred to me nails have all sorts of obvious shelter-building uses, and really belong on a Survival Knife to begin with (certainly more than the ubiquitous skull-crushing pommel!)...

Despite a quite favourable initial impression (for fine edge holding in light use), edge holding turned out to be poor on the Oryx Raider II when doing really heavy chopping (distortions mostly): You were quite right to distrust the vague "440" labelling in the end...

Gaston
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Mounting a knife as a spear head is fine but a skull crusher pummel is ridiculous?
 
For a Survival Knife a skull crusher is a bad idea, because you need a flat surface for pounding tasks, which are plentiful and of all sorts, and a flat surface will break through glass anyway. It's not a fighting knife... G.
 
It doesn't matter what kind of pummel you knife has if you break it or lose it by throwing.
 
Oh, let's count the absurdities, my favorite Saturday morning game.
Gaston444 said:
The Model 14 was too small and devoid of flashlight (which flashlight its sheath now has), but it justified a lifetime of largely useless knife carry by breaking into a shed ...

The main idea of these knives for me is to be able to make a shelter "in nature" without carrying any bag or tent while cycling.
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Somehow breaking into a shed is an example of making a shelter in nature? Love it. Vandalism as the new woodcraft.

Gaston444 said:
That people think these big knives are uncomfortable to carry concealed merely reflects what Bill Bagwell pointed out thirty years ago: Battle Blades p102: "In most parts of the world, except for the United States and some industrial regions of Europe, the knife is worn inserted through the belt, rather than hanging from it. This keeps it close to the body, and prevents it from swinging and banging the wearer. Americans however like to hang things from their belts...
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In most parts of the world, in history, there was a difference between a survival knife and an offensive weapon. Mr. Bagwell was commenting on the latter, not the former, as he wrote earlier in that same book. Looking at the American fighting soldier, which Gaston may never have done, it was quite rare but not unknown to see a full thigh rig. My own experience, having seen a lot of them, is that the most common location for the fighting knife was upside down on the shoulder strap or tight up high on the belt at four o'clock, behind the pistol. That is also, in my experience, where the Finnish and Swedish warriors wear theirs.

Gaston444 said:
We are also the only people in the world whose large knives have a tendency to pull their pants down as they walk."
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We are also the only people in the world who carry an 8 or 9 inch bowie as a survival tool. But nowhere in the world, except one provincial park in Canada, evidently, is it standard practice to wrap said bowie in a sock and stuff it inside the pants.

Gaston444 said:
The shoulder carried dagger is mostly there to carry light items on its sheaths that the main knife might be missing: Even if I were to mount it on a stick for an overnight stay, throwing is probably secondary to fending off an overly friendly black bear, which are common in these areas (unlikely in any case)...
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I think we would all pay money to watch the video of you biking up to an overly friendly bear, dismounting, pulling the knife out of your pants, tying it on a stick, and then fending the bear off. Or even of you practicing it. Having spent quite a bit of time hanging in areas with both black and brown bears, my technique is a bit different. I pull the bear spray off my right should strap with my left hand and draw my pistol with my right, hoping to use neither while I back up slowly. But, hey, again, post that video and we can all compare techniques.

Gaston444 said:
As to the notion of carrying a handgun for a day bike trip, I fail to see how that could be comfortable (or of much use), but hey, if your fantasy involves getting into gunfights with bears or squirrels, do indulge in them!
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Reality and experience of others really has no value to you, does it? There are those that have had to defend themselves from bears, feral dogs, wolves, feral pigs, and humans, in scenarios where the deployment of a knife might not have worked. And there are many who find a well constructed pancake holster more comfortable than a foot long piece of steel stuck down inside the pants.
 
guns_and_labs said:
Oh, let's count the absurdities, my favorite Saturday morning game.

Somehow breaking into a shed is an example of making a shelter in nature? Love it. Vandalism as the new woodcraft.


In most parts of the world, in history, there was a difference between a survival knife and an offensive weapon. Mr. Bagwell was commenting on the latter, not the former, as he wrote earlier in that same book. Looking at the American fighting soldier, which Gaston may never have done, it was quite rare but not unknown to see a full thigh rig. My own experience, having seen a lot of them, is that the most common location for the fighting knife was upside down on the shoulder strap or tight up high on the belt at four o'clock, behind the pistol. That is also, in my experience, where the Finnish and Swedish warriors wear theirs.


We are also the only people in the world who carry an 8 or 9 inch bowie as a survival tool. But nowhere in the world, except one provincial park in Canada, evidently, is it standard practice to wrap said bowie in a sock and stuff it inside the pants.


I think we would all pay money to watch the video of you biking up to an overly friendly bear, dismounting, pulling the knife out of your pants, tying it on a stick, and then fending the bear off. Or even of you practicing it. Having spent quite a bit of time hanging in areas with both black and brown bears, my technique is a bit different. I pull the bear spray off my right should strap with my left hand and draw my pistol with my right, hoping to use neither while I back up slowly. But, hey, again, post that video and we can all compare techniques.


Reality and experience of others really has no value to you, does it? There are those that have had to defend themselves from bears, feral dogs, wolves, feral pigs, and humans, in scenarios where the deployment of a knife might not have worked. And there are many who find a well constructed pancake holster more comfortable than a foot long piece of steel stuck down inside the pants.
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To your last quote of gaston, when we go biking I carry a glock 26 in a variety of ways. To think carrying a firearm while biking is less effective than a big knife is to not think about this seriously. A couple years ago a guy was biking on a trail and 3 teens attacked him. He shot all three and only one lived. The shooting was justified and saved the guys life. But for gaston this is of course impossible.
 
Ooo damn.. that Kabar hatchet... Never knew there was Hollow Handle hatchets made. This thread is both amusing AND informative!

Mr. Wilson should prototype a hatchet. Hint hint.. hint.
 
craytab said:
To your last quote of gaston, when we go biking I carry a glock 26 in a variety of ways. To think carrying a firearm while biking is less effective than a big knife is to not think about this seriously. A couple years ago a guy was biking on a trail and 3 teens attacked him. He shot all three and only one lived. The shooting was justified and saved the guys life. But for gaston this is of course impossible.
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All I am saying is that I found genuine use for my outdoor knives in my entire life maybe five times, one of which was somewhat important (using a Cold Steel Pro-Lite folder), and on another absolutely critical, maybe life or at least circumstances saving (with a Randall Model 14). Otherwise I have found folders to be reassuring to have on dark nights, but generally not terribly useful... Reassurance in itself could be considered useful, and is no doubt why guns are often carried.

I have never found my guns to be of any actual use... I don't berate people for owning them or carrying them, especially in view of emergencies, but when you tell me I should be carrying a restricted weapon, all the while doing this from a country with very different and far more lenient laws, when there really is no such thing as a concealed carry license in Canada, you'll forgive me for finding this a bit annoying... Not as silly as when Sam questioned my carrying a big knife concealed on a bike trip into the woods, as if that was somehow worse, but you get the picture...

Your Glock is 26 ounces loaded and 1.2 inch thick: That is a pretty significant item to carry concealed without a backpack or a bag of any kind. A shoulder harness, even with extra padding, for me gets uncomfortable with a knife over 8-9 ounces: I am guessing gun shoulder rigs must be quite substantial affairs! My CZ 75 has a weight similar to a 1911, which is to say nearing 40 ounces (loaded around 47 ounces...): I would feel quite ridiculous toting this artillery anywhere short of an actual apocalypse, and even then a rifle might be more useful...

30-47 ounces sounds like so much fun I am almost glad my local laws don't allow me to indulge in this fancy... A smaller five shot aluminium .38 is still over 17 ounces loaded, and is way too heavy for my jacket pockets, which are already straining from my gym padlock and a host of other items...

If people enjoy owning guns as a survival precaution I have nothing against that, and wish them all the best, but if they start to tell me I should be carrying them, in an obnoxious condescending tone no less, and in ignorance of my local laws or circumstances, then I find this a bit overreaching... What has this got to do with Survival Knives again?

Gaston
 
Gaston444 said:
All I am saying is that I found genuine use for my outdoor knives in my entire life maybe five times, one of which was somewhat important (using a Cold Steel Pro-Lite folder), and on another absolutely critical, maybe life or at least circumstances saving (with a Randall Model 14). Otherwise I have found folders to be reassuring to have on dark nights, but generally not terribly useful... Reassurance in itself could be considered useful, and is no doubt why guns are often carried.

I have never found my guns to be of any actual use... I don't berate people for owning them or carrying them, especially in view of emergencies, but when you tell me I should be carrying a restricted weapon, all the while doing this from a country with very different and far more lenient laws, when there really is no such thing as a concealed carry license in Canada, you'll forgive me for finding this a bit annoying... Not as silly as when Sam questioned my carrying a big knife concealed on a bike trip into the woods, as if that was somehow worse, but you get the picture...

Your Glock is 26 ounces loaded and 1.2 inch thick: That is a pretty significant item to carry concealed without a backpack or a bag of any kind. A shoulder harness, even with extra padding, for me gets uncomfortable with a knife over 8-9 ounces: I am guessing gun shoulder rigs must be quite substantial affairs! My CZ 75 has a weight similar to a 1911, which is to say nearing 40 ounces (loaded around 47 ounces...): I would feel quite ridiculous toting this artillery anywhere short of an actual apocalypse, and even then a rifle might be more useful...

30-47 ounces sounds like so much fun I am almost glad my local laws don't allow me to indulge in this fancy... A smaller five shot aluminium .38 is still over 17 ounces loaded, and is way too heavy for my jacket pockets, which are already straining from my gym padlock and a host of other items...

If people enjoy owning guns as a survival precaution I have nothing against that, and wish them all the best, but if they start to tell me I should be carrying them, in an obnoxious condescending tone no less, and in ignorance of my local laws or circumstances, then I find this a bit overreaching... What has this got to do with Survival Knives again?

Gaston
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Your stance on America and guns is very documented here. Don't pull that card. Most of the people reading this thread know. You said guns are not a good option for a mirriad of reasons, legality wasn't one of them until now. When you lose an argument, save face and admit it rather than change the finish line.

What does attaching a dagger (not hh) to a stick and claiming it is a viable option for survival have anything to do with hollow handle knives?
 
craytab said:
What does attaching a dagger (not hh) to a stick and claiming it is a viable option for survival have anything to do with hollow handle knives?
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Exactly! If you're gonna turn a knife into a spear, do it right! :p :thumbsup: :D

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Now he wants to carry nails in the sheath to build a shelter, yet says I'M backwards for thinking a sheath pocket could be used for the mini survival kit.
Wow.
What next, a tube of caulk down his pants so he can seal up the shelter nice and tight?
 
It is truly amazing and has nothing to do with the topic. I mean, why not put the nails in the hollow handle?
 
Gaston444 said:
All I am saying is that I found genuine use for my outdoor knives in my entire life maybe five times,

I have never found my guns to be of any actual use...
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This says it all. Go in peace. Just don't lecture us, either.

Gaston444 said:
As to the notion of carrying a handgun for a day bike trip, I fail to see how that could be comfortable (or of much use), but hey, if your fantasy involves getting into gunfights with bears or squirrels, do indulge in them!
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BTW, most people would consider this condescending, too.
 
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Gaston444 said:
All I am saying is that I found genuine use for my outdoor knives in my entire life maybe five times...
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guns_and_labs said:
This says it all. Go in peace. Just don't lecture us, either.
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Have to agree. We get all of this long-winded "advice" from someone who has only found genuine use for his knives maybe five times in his entire life, which is at least since the 1980s according to his posts.
 
TAH said:
Have to agree. We get all of this long-winded "advice" from someone who has only found genuine use for his knives maybe five times in his entire life, which is at least since the 1980s according to his posts.
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Amazing isn't it...
 
It is totally amazing that I guy that has had a genuine use for his knives only five times in his life and never with his guns has so much to say about both. I have suspected that his theories on knives were merely conjecture for quite a while and now we know it is for sure. It's a rare day when I don't use a knife five times in one day.

On another note, A while back I said that I would do a batoning test with my H H knife to see how it would stand up to hours of batoning. I can tell you now that, after all the testing I have done with my knife, my batoning test was the toughest test I ever subjected the knife to. I have to tell you that I was very disappointed with the results. I was set to split wood all day and was very surprised when the knife broke before I completed the test. It broke at a stress riser at the notch where the tang enters the guard.

I am convinced that batoning is the most brutal thing (within reason) you can do to a knife, but I still think a knife can and should be built to withstand the abuse.

I have always offered a "no questions asked" lifetime guarantee on the knives, and with well over a hundred of this model out, I have never had one come back, period, never mind a catastrophic failure like the one my test caused.

I'm going to redesign the knife with radiused notches at the guard, change the welding procedure and experiment with normalizing at the weld joint.

I will let you know what I learn.
 
Mark Knapp said:
It is totally amazing that I guy that has had a genuine use for his knives only five times in his life and never with his guns has so much to say about both. I have suspected that his theories on knives were merely conjecture for quite a while and now we know it is for sure. It's a rare day when I don't use a knife five times in one day.

On another note, A while back I said that I would do a batoning test with my H H knife to see how it would stand up to hours of batoning. I can tell you now that, after all the testing I have done with my knife, my batoning test was the toughest test I ever subjected the knife to. I have to tell you that I was very disappointed with the results. I was set to split wood all day and was very surprised when the knife broke before I completed the test. It broke at a stress riser at the notch where the tang enters the guard.

I am convinced that batoning is the most brutal thing (within reason) you can do to a knife, but I still think a knife can and should be built to withstand the abuse.

I have always offered a "no questions asked" lifetime guarantee on the knives, and with well over a hundred of this model out, I have never had one come back, period, never mind a catastrophic failure like the one my test caused.

I'm going to redesign the knife with radiused notches at the guard, change the welding procedure and experiment with normalizing at the weld joint.

I will let you know what I learn.
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Agreed about our local expert.

And thanks for posting about your knife and batoning. It shows character for a maker to admit what you have and even more to say you will address the issue. Looking forward to an update and I'm also happy the silliness of this thread at times did not detract from producing actual progress for you as a maker.
 
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