The Knifes Of Walden

[lt632ret]

While it is well known that Schrade was originally begun in Walden NY and this small village at one time supplied half of the knives sold in the entire country what is often overlooked is that because of the three knife companies involved and the interelated happenstances of history many knives carry the name Walden on the tang or were made in this small village. So the question today is how many brands carried the Walden name or through research can be shown to have been made in Walden. This question is not an easy one and to answer it I feel anyone interested should offer there ideas so that we can get a list. This includes various markings used by the same companys ect.

The Mid hudson area had a multitude of knife companys I am attaching a picture of a line of knives made in Newburgh NY about 10 miles from Walden The manager of this ( and part owner ) of this company originally was affiliated with the Walden knife company in fact this style of knife has quite a history and was made by numerous companys in fact it is a story unto itself. These if memory serves ( ALLEN ) were made from 1917-1925 or there abouts. This was the only knife company Newburgh ever had ( even though it is a city and Walden only a village) However George Schrade produced similar knives in the 40tys as did Walden knife and NYK earlier. Even though they ALLEN knife had a patent on these they were made earlier in this country ( Eagle knife and others) and for years in Europe these were inexpensive and this style was called among other names fold over or penny knives. George Schrade was an Elk and belonged to the Newburgh lodge. All of these people were contemporarys and over cards and a glass all these ideas and companys were forged in fact it might be fun by add to the list any other companys from the local say 40 mile surrounding area. This takes in poughkeepsie and Ellenville ( that is enough hints) again this is a post graduate question. If you come up with them I will attempt to post a pic of each. If you have an interest give it a shot good luck LT. ( here is a hint John Goins encyclopedia of knife markings is a great reference and a good place to start. )

 

[textoothpk]

... I mean LT. I don't have a Goins, but I went to Mapquest and looked at an area about forty miles across, the center being Walden. Some names of Manufactors came instantly to mind:

Ellenville, I think of Imperial Knife Co. Napanoch automatically brings to mind Honk Falls (1921-1929), and Napapanoch Knife company (1900-1939). A bit of study in one of my references shows that latter firm was owned by a Mr J. Cushner during the thirties, making him a contempary of George Schrade. I assume they knew one another and perhaps they shared cards and drinks.

I saw Wallkill on the map, and I am postive some knifes were made there, but I don't know by who. Was it 'Wallkill River Works'?

Back to Ellenville.. Wow. I did check a book or two on that, and what a convoluted knive story that is. Let me see... Co-operative Knive company started there, went bust, Dwight DeVine and sons took over, then it was Ellenville Knife company, then Ulster Knife company, then Ulster USA.???? I'm gonna look at this closer after dinner.

Poughkeepsie? I'll leave that hint for the next guy.

Always a pleasure, always interesting, LT

Phil

 

[lt632ret]

Wow forget about these old knives 107 hits on the spitfire post, good for you this old boy knows nothing about the spitfire but it is good to see the interest and apparently you guys do.

As far as my question here are some examples of the ones you mentioned I do not know if I can do the pics this way all the time there are a bunch that fit the framework of the question. The ellenville tang pic is of a different knife the one on the hunter ( in the pic) is to light to come up. Of course with in each group there are subgroups but lets keep it managable. It is a good start and beside I had to polish some of these anyway so it is good to get them out. LT

 

[textoothpk]

Wow, LT. I was sorta testing you there, not dreaming you would have all of the knives I mentioned. Just like that, you went to one of your display cases and plucked them out for a very good photo. Wonderful! Great examples of some real knives. I really do admire and respect you for your knowledge, your collection, your obvious dedication to the fine old knife makers in the area where you live.

C'mon, you other guys... there are a few makers left that I didn't mention. Let's see what else the LT can show us and see where he's taking us on this scholarly adventure.

Phil

 

[Bushbow]

Wow - I have a long way to go to hang with some of this crowd. Bob Urban here hailing from East lansing, MI. I have been e-mailing back and forth with Textoothpk and he sugested I come to the Schrade forum and hang out a while. I have many knives that have been aquired over the years and I have a theory that goes something like this; "No bad reason to buy another knife"! You can substitute longbow, recurve, firearm etc..

Anyway the deer season is over so I am going to get involved with the knife thing to ocupy my off season a bit.

As far as Schrade knives go I own an LB1 and an LB5. Both have seen use and the 5 has field dressed many deer. I like to use my tools so I am not sure that I will ever buy a knife so nice I don't want to use it although I won't say "NEVER" because I can be bitten by the obsession bug pretty bad.

Ok thats all for now but I will keep lurking and learning, thanks.

Bob Urban

 

[lrv]

To the group!

Both the LB-1 and 5 you mention are wonderful lockbacks.
There are many different wooded handled 5's to come by.
I just picked up a beautify LB-9 which is the same as a LB-8 with a guthook blade. This one has real bone for the handle.

Again welcome and don't be just a lurker.. come on in.

Larry in NH
"lvickery98" on ebay

 

[lrv]

Of knife co's in NY and I have a count of 9.
I haven't filtered it down to only the 40 miles around Walden yet but the list is really going to be long when I'm done.

Walden, NY must be to the knife industry what Lawrence and Lowell, Ma are to the shoe industry.

Huge, abandoned brick buildings that are all along the Merimack river where they got their power to drive the machines used to cut sew and polish shoes and other goods in the 18-1900's

Ill keep at it.

Larry

 

[trz]

Always been partial to Kingston's myself.

Frank

 

[lt632ret]

Kingstons are an underated and very nice knife again the Ulster Schrade family. Walden was once called the little Sheffield of america and at one time made and was selling half of all the knives sold in this country it is a long story and I have gone into it before the fact to remember is that for a small village this was quite an amazing feat.

The original Walden knife building known as the lower shop to the locals is and has been since I was a child the Thruway Shopping center an independent supermarket and small mall. Being right on the river as kids we would search that area for the old knife dump sites.

New York knife has again been gone since before I can remember however as a kid I would cross high bridge every day ( for the couple of years I lived there ) and would stare at the ruins while on the way to school. Which over the years have of course decayed bit by bit on my 55 th birthday myself and 2 other old guys ( friends) went into the gorge below the falls ( horseshoe falls that powered the original old machines ) and we had a dig that is to say looked for artifacts. The river still has old grinding stones which were simply discarded by throwing them into the river. Much the same way the human waste in those days was discarded ( directly into the river) sometimes out the window or simply down a downspout. Perhapes that is why the smallmouth bass fishing is so good there.
There were also original bricks and since parts of the walls still stood and since I have the original photo (3 feet by about 18")which hung in the office ( and was taken in 1903 ) I can almost pick out the bricks I took. We also found webbing ( with a metal detector )that is the part left after the knife is punched out of the original piece of steel. Interestingly the pattern is that of there table knife of which I have several sets. The blades fit right in the cut out portions. We wanted to get to the site before the 20 year over due work was begun on the bridge and I imagine much of what was left will be gone although perhapes it will turn up something new. Being involved with the new Knife museum which is due to open ( hopefully in the spring ) I have asked for any artifacts found to be saved however I am sure most will be lost. I am also fairly sure that the most amusing part of the mini dig would have been watching me at 310 lbs hauling grinding stones up the Wallkill river gorge by hand. They now grace my porch along with the bricks. Since my personal sorrow I have lost 75 lbs so perhapes I should go back. By the way this can really only be done in late summer in a very dry year.

The Schrade factory sadly is now a Stewarts gas station. One old building is decayed and really not used. The old celluloid building is soon to be a laundromat. And so as it comes to all human endeaver the work and labors of these hardy people shall pass into the oblivian of history perhapes quicker than most since the automatic knives which were a major part of this history are stupidly shunned as pariahs. George Patten once said " All glory is fleeting ". Perhapes this is how it should be. Time to end this I am getting maudlin. LT

 

[lt632ret]

I am attaching a pic of the original photo that hung in the office of New York Knife taken in 1903. Prior to this the official picture was a lithograph ( if any one has an interest let me know and I will post a picture of that as well. ) To get a picture this size in those days was a big deal and quite expensive since the technology was not that great. Notice the enlarged writing which is what appears on the bottom corner of the pic. LT

 

[lt632ret]

This was the official ( litho engraving) picture used by New York Knife prior to 1903. ( Note you will find painted and photo post cards pre this period however these were not done by the company.) LT

 

[El Lobo]

Absolutely Awesome!

Thanks for sharing,

Bill

 

[lrv]

Let us know when the next dig is planned..
I'll come down if nothing more that just to take pictures!
Thanks again for the great history.
Larry

 

[textoothpk]

As always, LT, I enjoy all you write. Very interesting about the 'artifacts' you salvaged. In the Upper Penninsula, here in Michigan, I have read of some people searching about the old Marbles factory and making some finds. And in the area of where Olsen had thier place.

The 'Webs' would be fascinating collectibles! As would be the grindstones.

What is the River Valley called where Walden is? I know of the Connecticate River Valley known for so many firearms being built in that area. Very old, very noble old manufactoring places, that I am not sure are honored enough by making them points of tourist interest.

OK guys... It's Sunday, we all got time on our hands with the cold (for most of us) weather out. Let's get back to our professor's assignment! I wanna see more of LT's knives... Knives many of us may ever actually handle.

Phil

 

[Ed Gordon]

What a good thread. Very interesting and entertaining reading and a nice slice of history. Thank You LT...Ed.

 

[lt632ret]

The Hudson Valley. Named for the river which flows around 13 miles to my east. The Wallkill river is within sight of my upstairs window. Now the Wallkill is one of the few rivers that flows north it starts south about 100 or so miles in New Jersey. and flows north to enter the Hudson in Kingston NY. Now why the heck would I mention this well prior to the invasion of the white man this was all indian country in fact do to the fertile land, places of high flat and wood land as well as an abundant river it served as a permanent camp for various indian groups. What made this so nice is that a fellow could get in his canoe in Jersey (down south) and bring along whatever trade goods he had and let the river take him north fishing and trading and meeting new people ( or say hello to a girlfriend ) along the way. Then up to sturgeon pond down the esopus and out into the Hudson where he could do the same thing to get back down to Jersey of course he would have to hitch a ride or walk from the spot he left the Hudson and headed west until he got home or back to where the wallkill starts and started his trip again. It was kind of a natural trade route complete with various supermarkets in the form of great hunting fishing and trading along the way.

I believe my property now perhapes a 1/4 mile from the river was once a meander. Various man made items have of course vastly changed what it must have looked like. However water flows and natural contours make me believe that thousands of years ago you could fish right where the land in my back yard slopes sharpley down. It would be difficult to explain this any further and besides any more of this would probably put the reader to sleep. Oh yes one more thing the fields in the local vicinity still yield hundreds of arrow heads every year when the ground is turned up. I have never found one ( I am the worst arrow head hunter in the world. My distant relatives were probably the ones who lost them.) However I know people who have the knack and have buckets of them. Oh yes the answer again was the Hudson Valley. Let me know when you want to know about the Hudson, West Point, ect if you have a spare year or two I will start filling you in. Again the good part for me is that it kills time my enemy. LT

 

[textoothpk]

Hudson River Valley, of course LT. Wasn't that, and the Conn River Valley what really won the civil war for the Union? All that manufactoring might?

You are working on a museum? Cool. You'll have to share photos. You've really raised the conciousness of all of us concerning all things Walden.

Phil

 

[lt632ret]

That is all we need get me started on the Civil War. I could do 500 pages on COL Bradley alone (New York Knife) without opening a reference book. It would put anyone who does happen to wander into this lonely forum to sleep for 20 years. Newburgh is 13 miles away. It is where, Washington had his headquarters the last year of the revolution it is also where he turned down the offer of being King established the purple heart and put down a mutiny of his officers ( that he had found out about, it was because they were not getting paid ). He did it by gathering them into his headquarters ( which can be visited today). He did it by walking into the room where they had gathered with a speech in his hand. He stopped and excused himself he came back with his reading glasses on. Before starting the speech he apologized for having to have been impolite to leave the room while they were assembled. He stated " I am sorry gentlemen It seems not only have gone grey but apparently also blind in the service to my country". Whatever he said after that has been forgotten because after that statment from the man who had lead them through hell for all those years, The sudden knowledge that he like them, was only a man, with all the frailties of any other man left not a dry eye. They all returned back to there commands and this almost forgotten bit of history to what could of changed the course of this country is only a footnote. There I go again as I have often said I live in the past. The past is where the future lives for as a much smarter person than myself has said those who forget the mistakes of the past are bound to relive them. By the way they have a great museum there and the property is restored just as it was right down to the cannons overlooking the Hudson. Of course then there is my favorite place in the whole wide world heck I get misty just saying the Words WEST POINT. About 35 minutes from my house ( aside from everthing else what a great museum talk about knives, unbelievable ) I know exactly how long it takes to get there, because I was lucky enough to have two of my children get appointed and graduate from there. However that is another story and by now everyone is asleep anyway, perhapes I will be able to get some blessed relief and finally fall off as well. Good night LT

 

[KAW]

Hi all....I came across this thread that's over ten years old, but it is right up my alley.... and well nearly in my backyard.
I don't know if these folks are still around, but I would like to contribute where they left off and hoping others will join in as this has great potential to become a hellava photo collection of some oldies but goodies & even some rarities.... so I'd dared bump this thread from the dark, deep depths of the forum....

I guess it would be only logically to start off with the first manufacturer to arrive in Walden in 1856.... New York Knife Co.

Up to now, I have not been fortunate enough to obtain a 19th century knife as yet, but a recent acquisition this month might get me there?.... who knows but it certainly looks like it could be.... a 3½" jack with jigged bone handles, steel liners , no shield & no bolster on the butt end, a crimped bolster at the blade end.... can anyone tell me if I finally crossed that threshold? ....and despite the rough looking edge on those blades, they are still impressively sharp!

Over the course of the next couple of days, I'll post some more NYKC knives & some of their other trade names, then move onto the other Walden knife makers & then move the radius out a little bit more to include those in the Wawarsing area. I invite anyone who wish to post their various Walden originated knives....

’til later….
KAW

"Everlasting Sharp" means…. never having a dull moment.

 

[KAW]

Here's another NYK.... a totally different style this time....
Its 3¼" closed with 3610 stamped on the back of the main clip blade & green "pearl" celluloid handle.
Despite the risks of celluloid, it does make for really attractive handles! Despite how it looks now, by the pitting on the blades & backsprings, one can tell it was once very neglected before someone took the trouble of restoring it by polishing the heck out of it, but I am truly grateful to whoever did it. They managed to save a fine artifact of history!

I first thought it to be a serpentine stockman pattern, but I just noticed the pen blade is at the other end!
Oh... One thing I noticed about the construction of this knife that I have not seen before is the center brass liner tapers to nothing before reaching the main blade allowing the two backsprings to contact each other under the clip blade, thereby making that end narrower than the other.
This pattern must be called something.... did only NYC make knives in this fashion?.... is it rare?.... please educate a rookie....

’til later….
KAW

"Everlasting Sharp" means…. never having a dull moment.