The making of a custom round knife

[Brian Avila]

Some of the reasons I post stuff is to make sure then when people search for info, it pops up. Since it is hard sometimes to find info on round knives I figured I would document my build of one.

I hope this is ok with the moderators to place it in the Sheaths & Such, because it is a leather tool.

As of right now with my research, round knives come in many shapes and sizes. My plan is to make a more traditional round/head knife.

Since I will be using this for my own personal use when making my own sheaths there were a couple things that I personally wanted. I like my tools to be stainless, I hate rust, I don't even want to worry about the rust, I have problems with tools rusting in my basement when I am not looking at them (even when I have oil or wax on them), so I choose to use a stainless. I also want my tools to look nice/pretty/clean. As of the time that I am writing this, that means a hidden tang, with some kind of stabilized wood.

What limits this build for me is getting the tang into the "guard" block. To get the round knife to work the best it needs to be sharp and hard. I got a hold of some AEB-L from the New Jersey Steel Baron that is 0.07" thick. This isn't as thin as I would really want for the overall/initial thickness but it is pretty close to the limit of how small I can get a slot into the "guard" block, so it is what it is. The plan is just to grind it to almost zero and make it sharp.

Here is a photo of the planned knife and handle material. I think I will use some black paper micarta for the guard and then some home stabilized curly mahogany that I have been meaning to see how it finishes out.

I am waiting on the steel right now, so I will document more as the process continues.

Comments and discussion is encouraged.

 

[Omega Leather Works]

Horsewright uses aeb-l for his round knives and I'd think it would be ideal too. Ask him about the hardness.

I think your design drawing is lovely. Reminds me of an Osborne. I really want to replace the handle on my vintage Tandy knife with natural g10 but I'm not really sure how to go about it.

I really applaud the effort in making this thread, it's really the kind of thing that gets my attention. I'd bet others feel the same. Thanks for doing it. :thumbup:

 

[Brian Avila]

Horsewright uses aeb-l for his round knives and I'd think it would be ideal too. Ask him about the hardness.

I think your design drawing is lovely. Reminds me of an Osborne. I really want to replace the handle on my vintage Tandy knife with natural g10 but I'm not really sure how to go about it.

I really applaud the effort in making this thread, it's really the kind of thing that gets my attention. I'd bet others feel the same. Thanks for doing it. :thumbup:

I will be shooting between 61-62 for the hardness.

And when I find it hard to find info about specific topics that I want to know about, like a round knife, I find it beneficial to start a thread like this so that the info gets out there. I have asked questions and gotten answers before but it is across multiple threads.

 

[Horsewright]

I've made 6 roundknives. The first two were symmetrical and similar to your drawing except full tang. I really struggled with keeping the grinds symmetrical. After talking with Paul about a new roundknife he'd bought I decided to try a non symmetrical shape. Paul mentioned he preferred that shape for sheath making and the symmetrical for saddle making. I went ahead and tried it and it was a lot easier for me to grind. But honestly my preference for the non symmetrical was about the grinding...if ya can't beat em join em kind of a thing. The first two were at 60 RC and the last four were at 63 RC, heat treat by Peters. I used 13C27, (AEB-L made by Sandvik instead of Udderholm). I went with that because of the size stock available. I purchased steel from AKS becuase they had the right sizes for this project and my normal steel supplier (NJSB), didn't.

I'd have to say 60RC was good and blows the doors off of what is commonly avaialbe, 63 RC is rockstar. I've been using mine for probably 6 months on an almost daily basis and have only had to resharpen it once. Don't even have to strop it often. Nichole's has never been resharpened and she uses it problably 4 or 5 times a week.

Why can't you go full tang?

 

[Horsewright]

Deadly double super post

 

[Brian Avila]

I've made 6 roundknives. The first two were symmetrical and similar to your drawing except full tang. I really struggled with keeping the grinds symmetrical. After talking with Paul about a new roundknife he'd bought I decided to try a non symmetrical shape. Paul mentioned he preferred that shape for sheath making and the symmetrical for saddle making. I went ahead and tried it and it was a lot easier for me to grind. But honestly my preference for the non symmetrical was about the grinding...if ya can't beat em join em kind of a thing. The first two were at 60 RC and the last four were at 63 RC, heat treat by Peters. I used 13C27, (AEB-L made by Sandvik instead of Udderholm). I went with that because of the size stock available. I purchased steel from AKS becuase they had the right sizes for this project and my normal steel supplier (NJSB), didn't.

I'd have to say 60RC was good and blows the doors off of what is commonly avaialbe, 63 RC is rockstar. I've been using mine for probably 6 months on an almost daily basis and have only had to resharpen it once. Don't even have to strop it often. Nichole's has never been resharpened and she uses it problably 4 or 5 times a week.

Why can't you go full tang?

I will have to shoot for 63 then! Good input.

I could go full tang. I want to make it a hidden tang, just because I can.

I have thought about a offset blade. I have a rough outline for one as well. I will have to try that as well.

 

[Omega Leather Works]

Is the brass ferrule important on my knife? I'm just wondering what they are installed for other than looks. I can't see why it's needed, but I may be missing something. My knife has a hidden tang and I'm wondering if there's any reason why I can't grind off the old handle and fashion a new one from g10. The knife is good but the wood isn't my favorite.

 

[harronek]

I will watch this with interest , mainly because I know diddly fiddly squat about Round Knives .
I'm serious when I ask this question .
What makes them so good , and can someone explain how they are used and for what applications ?
In reality I do very little leatherwork compared to the rest of you guys , but I've never struggled or felt in anyway hampered while using my little Tina Grafting knife .
Are these Round knives better for large amounts of cutting ?

Ken

 

[Brian Avila]

Is the brass ferrule important on my knife? I'm just wondering what they are installed for other than looks. I can't see why it's needed, but I may be missing something. My knife has a hidden tang and I'm wondering if there's any reason why I can't grind off the old handle and fashion a new one from g10. The knife is good but the wood isn't my favorite.

I would say the ferrule is important for two reasons
1) Looks
2) the blade is hardened. The shoulders could wear on the softer materials, creating a fit problem over time.

 

[Brian Avila]

I will watch this with interest , mainly because I know diddly fiddly squat about Round Knives .
I'm serious when I ask this question .
What makes them so good , and can someone explain how they are used and for what applications ?
In reality I do very little leatherwork compared to the rest of you guys , but I've never struggled or felt in anyway hampered while using my little Tina Grafting knife .
Are these Round knives better for large amounts of cutting ?

Ken

It comes down to push cuts over pull cuts. Using a utility knife is a pain in the ass on my hands and figures when it comes to pulling the following the line. From what I have heard the push cuts ( from the round knife ) make life easier.

Brian

 

[Omega Leather Works]

I will watch this with interest , mainly because I know diddly fiddly squat about Round Knives .
I'm serious when I ask this question .
What makes them so good , and can someone explain how they are used and for what applications ?
In reality I do very little leatherwork compared to the rest of you guys , but I've never struggled or felt in anyway hampered while using my little Tina Grafting knife .
Are these Round knives better for large amounts of cutting ?

Ken

Definitely nice to push cut as Brian said. You can hold the knife in a few ways, but it's common to have your first two fingers on the blade for good control. The blade gets rocked forward for long straight cuts and rocked back (sometimes I have the handle nearly touching the leather) for tight radii cuts. Other knives are still used often when a pull cut is ideal, but push cuts feel better to me. One other nice thing is that you can flip the knife over when you're doing a lot of cutting in order to get a "fresh" edge. Using one is hard for me to explain in writing, but you should try one. You can pick up a decent vintage knife (stay away from new Tandy and Osborne imo) for a few bucks. Mine was new and $50, but probably from the 70's. If I had to guess I'd say it's probably o1 steel and holds a good edge. I'd love to step up to something like what Dave or some others make, but the one I have is a good starter blade. If you lived in the States I'd send it to you to try out. To me the design benefit isn't in how much you use it, but in the ergonomics, control and utility.

One thing to keep in mind is your cutting surface. I don't use the knife on the self-healing cutting mat because the material can grab the tips when cutting a curve. I've heard of people snapping the tips from knives that have delicate points like the ones on mine. Instead you'll probably want to use a clicker board, hard poly cutting board, uhmw or something along those lines.

I would say the ferrule is important for two reasons
1) Looks
2) the blade is hardened. The shoulders could wear on the softer materials, creating a fit problem over time.

That makes sense. One thing I forgot to mention is that the ferrule is filled, at least at the top, with epoxy (epoxy, according to the manual). Other than that I'm not certain about how it's mounted as there are no pins or lanyard tube

You think there'd still be a possible issue using g10 without the ferrule?

 

[Brian Avila]

I am going to use a piece of g10 for my ferrule. It should hold up well enough. Odds are it is just epoxies into the hole of the handle. Which is fine,

 

[Horsewright]

I think ferrule construction is done because its easy and simple and prevents the wood from splitting. Kind of industrial slap er together often. Strig buddy your jeans are tore up.

 

[Omega Leather Works]

I am going to use a piece of g10 for my ferrule. It should hold up well enough. Odds are it is just epoxies into the hole of the handle. Which is fine,

Oh yeah, I did see that you were using g10 for the bolster. Duh. Thanks man, I hope you didn't mind me getting off topic. I'm really looking forward to seeing this progress. I'd love to hear how the grinding goes. I'm not ready to grind a head knife yet, but I'll definitely be sub'ing the thread for future reference.

I think ferrule construction is done because its easy and simple and prevents the wood from splitting. Kind of industrial slap er together often. Strig buddy your jeans are tore up.

Dude are you looking at my leg? I'm telling Nichole!

 

[Salolan]

Dave, are the heat treat specs on the 13c27 the same as AEB-L? I have thought about getting some stock to try my hand at making another one. As you said when I showed it, the round knife I made was just way too thick.
Just for reference, here is the one I made. And yes, it was the most difficult knife to grind I have ever done. I did most of it with files because of this.

Keep us posted on your progress Brian.
Chris

 

[Horsewright]

Chris yes I believe it is. I had Peters do the ht. They cyro everything and then RC tested the blades. These stainless steels really benefit from the cyro.

 

[Omega Leather Works]

Dave, are the heat treat specs on the 13c27 the same as AEB-L? I have thought about getting some stock to try my hand at making another one. As you said when I showed it, the round knife I made was just way too thick.
Just for reference, here is the one I made. And yes, it was the most difficult knife to grind I have ever done. I did most of it with files because of this.

Keep us posted on your progress Brian.
Chris

Is that Osage orange? Gorgeous work! Do you make them to sell?

This has really got me wanting to try my hand at one of these. I'm not super talented with steel, but I have patience on my side.

Where can I buy a small piece of steel in the correct size? I have bars of various steels, but nothing like what I'd need to make a round knife.

Edit- just remembered AKS and NJSB were mentioned. I'll give Chuck a call soon.

 

[Brian Avila]

Keep going at it guys. Good convo. I am waiting on steel to show up.

Omega, you can get some aeb-l of sized from alpha knife supply. Or New Jersey steel baron.

 

[Omega Leather Works]

Keep going at it guys. Good convo. I am waiting on steel to show up.

Omega, you can get some aeb-l of sized from alpha knife supply. Or New Jersey steel baron.

Thanks brother, I edited the post after realizing that you guys had mentioned your sources.

 

[SugarSkulls]

I've never made one a round knife, but from sanding/grinding rounded objects, I would suggest some sort of jig that you can put on a tool rest that allows you to pivot at the desired radius. If you have a tool rest to achieve the angle you need, the jig could be as simple as a board you screw the knife tang to from a whole towards the rear of the tang. You may even need to affix the blade to something longer to get the desired radius, but it should allow one to make a symmetric grind.