The National FFA Foundation

CJ Buck

Moderator
Joined
Apr 15, 1999
Messages
898
We are going to be showing in the career show, as we always do, and be judges in the National Wildlife Management-Entrepreneurship Proficiency Awards in Louisville KY.(what a mouthful)

Anyway, I got a letter from Bernie Staller, C.O.O. for FFA saying they are considering not allowing knives or firearms to be sponsors or to sell at the convention.

This is his final paragraph:
"As background for you please note that FFA is part of Agricultural Education and Agricultural Education is part of the public school system in the USA. In addition, Agricultural Education, and thus FFA, are elective courses in these 7,500 high schools and we only exist at the discretion of local school officials. Agricultural Education and FFA are subject to the same public monitoring that publilc schools are subjected to. Consequently, FFA is not in a position since we have far too much at stake...."

I will be back there for a hearing on 10/21/99 from 11am to 4:30. I would love to get arguments and opinions to mull over in preparation for that hearing.

thanks

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CJ Buck
Buck Knives, Inc.
AKTI Member #PR00003


 
Joined
Jul 8, 1999
Messages
24
How knowledgeable can these FFA leaders be
about real farming?? Or are they just giving
in to todays politically correct stupidity??
I have mever been a farmer, but spent many
summers on my Grandparents peanut farm in
Va. from the age of 5 to 12.

Thats where I received my first TOOL a KNIFE,
and used it almost as much as my Grandfather.
Neither of us, nor his hands, could have gone
thru a days work without using that TOOL.

I got that first TOOL when I was 5, I have
carried it & used it virtually every day since. Im now 53, a ex LEO, now a Health Care
Chief of Security. I havnt done too badly & I
didnt become a criminal by carrying that tool
& though it was a while ago, even carrying it
to school. It wasnt illegal then. Now the kids get expeled for a fingernail clipper in
their pocket.

Sorry to go on so, but this FFA thing is DUMD

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Silverback
AKTI #A000011
 

RGR

Joined
Oct 11, 1999
Messages
49
Wish I had some good answer. Even if you present them with facts true believers disregard them! I was in FFA centuries back and it is too bad a lot of Americans use every chance they get to discourage farming! I don't care for tofu myself but a lot of folks think milk comes from a carton! One bit of serious info is that more farmers get killed "in the line of duty" than any other occupation! Sure other dangerous occuapations get the print, firefighting, FBI murders cop killers etc, but good old farming kills more fine folks on the average than those "glorious" jobs. So maybe we just ought to start liking that old tofu? I hope not. Good luck with your presentation. Keep the faith. Ron
 
Joined
Apr 3, 1999
Messages
2,052
I didn't see the quote from the FFA over on the Political Forum. That is really disappointing. An organization that is supposed to promote the pride, integrity, and perseverance of the American farm, and farmer, taking such a weak stance. There have been all kinds of people killed by tractors and combines, and even some cases of homocide by tractor. Maybe they will promote the use of rubber bladed tillers for their students. I did not grow up on a farm but I have worked on some and visited many more. Many of my family members and friends are farmers. I have NEVER met a farmer that did not have some kind of knife on his person. Just because the FFA recognizes that knives are important tools to farmers does not mean that they are advocating FFA members breaking school rules.

Sad stuff.
frown.gif
 
Joined
Jan 6, 1999
Messages
603
Mr Buck,

I do not envy you on this one.

I see two critical decisions that need to be made heading into this meeting.

1. How to present knives as Farming Tools that should not be slighted for political expediency.

2. Whether to stand with or distance from the Firearms Manufacturers on this fight.

Many may not consider the 2nd a valid issue but I feel that we must face it.

We could take a stance with this particular organization that Knives are Tools and should not be considered the same as Firearms which are weapons. We might even be successful since Farmers daily face cutting tasks and are a clear example of knives used as tools.

However, We must be careful about such an approach because it jeopardizes our right to carry knives for Self Defense.

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AKTI Member No. A000370
 
Joined
Sep 9, 1999
Messages
340
I have a practical suggestion. Set the commitee members a task.
First, tell them their dinner is in the field and they will have to go out and get it themselves. No guns allowed mind you-sticks and stones only.
After chasing some poor beast around and finally killing it, perhaps they would like to clean it with a nice piece of flint-we cant have any knives afterall. The steaks should be an interesting cut.
Once cooked I doubt they would be much fun to eat without a KNIFE and fork handy.I wonder what effect flint chips would have on the throat and stomach?
Seriously, good marketing is the key, like anything else. You have to sell your product to them. Buck Knives and companies like Browning,etc. are geared primarily towards the sporting market. I doubt the more 'tactically' minded companies would want to have any part in a farming convention anyhow. It might be an idea to take some past advertisements from various companies. I recall some nice ads done by Buck in Guns and Ammo a while back. They could not possibly be seen as encouraging criminal or violent behaviour. Play on a positive image and show some products to these people. Take along some of the knives that clearly are not designed for any violent purpose. A master series 532 and some slip joints, along with some small fixed blades. Make the choices pretty so they will appeal to the eye.
I have found that the open minded are always intrested in well presented quality products.
If they are not open minded, then it wont matter anyway.


[This message has been edited by mjjbecker (edited 13 October 1999).]

[This message has been edited by mjjbecker (edited 13 October 1999).]
 

CJ Buck

Moderator
Joined
Apr 15, 1999
Messages
898
Excellent feedback so far.

I will put a collection of knives to show the utility aspects as well as some very tasteful ads.

Any other feedback or ideas???

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CJ Buck
Buck Knives, Inc.
AKTI Member #PR00003


 
Joined
Sep 9, 1999
Messages
340
On page 176 of the Knives '90 annual there is an article mentioning how Buck knives send out knives to missionary groups across the world. I know that the folks at Buck would not want to look like they are blowing their own trumpet, but such good deeds should not go unnoticed.
I think it might be a good idea to bring this up at the meeting and to enclose some letters from organisations that Buck have helped out-providing these groups have no objection of course. Proof of the positive use of knives could hardly be better argued!

Another idea would be for any forum members that work in the country to write in to Mr Buck and testify how important good knives and firearms are to them in their work.These letters could also be shown as evidence of the importance of properly used knives and firearms. I realise that speed is important so anyone reading this could maybe do so now!
Let us all show our support to this fine cause!
 

Jim March

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Oct 7, 1998
Messages
3,018
In THIS PARTICULAR CASE where there are connections to both kids and agriculture, I believe a "knife as tools" argument is appropriate and could win the issue.

Buck is well placed to make such an argument...they're not major players in the "tactical market", they do a broad variety of "primarily peaceful use" blades. Showing off their Multitool and a good selection of dozens of utility knives should be adequate. The River Rafter Crosslock deserves special mention as a rescue knife able to cut clothes or seatbelts from a crash victim, or a too-tight rope or strap from a horse or whatever without cutting flesh.

Note that I'm NOT against making the "weapons are fundamentally good" argument. I think it's critical we do so in the general scheme of things and I argued such pretty effectively in this Politics thread: http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/004816.html

But I don't think the venue described here is the right place for that fight and I won't think poorly of Buck for avoiding it on this front. Buck deserves a LOT of support for their success in reforming Calif. knife laws, it would be pretty crass of us to demand that they remain "ideologically pure" in every case.

Jim March
Equal Rights for CCW Home Page http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw
 
Joined
Sep 9, 1999
Messages
340
I agree with you 100% Jim regarding protecting the right to keep and bear arms.
I think that it is important to argue ALL of the cases for proper responsible usage of firearms and cutlery.
Like I have said before-those that would take away your rights will not stop at self defence usage. These people are only intrested in furthering their political veiws and cannot be trusted to stop when they claim they will.
 

Jim March

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Oct 7, 1998
Messages
3,018
MJJ, we agree BUT I don't think it'll fly in a "school related" mess. It's the "schools and kids" link that makes me think Buck should play off of the "tool card".

Jim
 
Joined
Oct 3, 1998
Messages
3,264
Here are some thoughts for the future farmers:

Without knives there would be no agriculture. For example, in much of the world a machete is the fundamental tool that makes life possible. It is also the weapon in countless murders. Choices.

A knife is the classic case of choice - blessing or curse, life or death - that is built into everything on God's green earth.

Whoever first put an edge on a suitable rock, on purpose, perhaps to peel the fruit of the tree of knowledge, made it possible for our species to alter nature, and made moral choices both necessary and possible.

In the end of ugly history, when God sorts everybody out, and folks beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks, and we can nap in our orchards and our vinyards without posting a sentry, we will still want good knives, for pruning and grafting the fig trees and the grape vines, and certainly good steak knives for the righteous to feast on the Behemoth and the Leviathan.

In a world with no weapons and no need for weapons, one would still want a good knife.


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
Joined
Sep 9, 1999
Messages
340
Very true, Jim. I did mean that each case should be argued in context. I would not expect Mr Buck to argue on any point other than a farming/rural slant as that is the issue at the meeting he is having.
I hope the meeting goes well and I look forward to reading about how it went.
 
Joined
Oct 3, 1998
Messages
3,264
CNN reported today that a private school in one of the Carolinas is going ahead with a raffle for five hunting rifles & shotguns, as a benefit for Future Farmers, despite critics who claim that they are "insensitive" to recent school shootings. The school said their community has a strong hunting heritage, and the usual background checks apply to the winners.


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 

CJ Buck

Moderator
Joined
Apr 15, 1999
Messages
898
I attended the meeting in Idianapolis on October 21st. At the beginning of the meeting the general statement from FFA officials was that knife and gun sponsorship and involvement in the career show and magazine would have to be discontinued. By the end of the meeting the decision was made to generate guidelines where knives and guns would always be shown in a contextual use situation. One ad approved was a gun ad where a father and son were crossing a fenceline on a bird hunt, showing good safety by holding each others guns while crossing. They asked not to have "floating" knives etc for ads in the future.

Cooler heads prevailed and while we may have lost the priviledge of selling product at the show, we maintained our involvement with this large group of youth...tomorrows leaders.

Wally Gardiner, President of Imperial Schrade was also in attendance and spoke eloquently on our behalf.

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CJ Buck
Buck Knives, Inc.
AKTI Member #PR00003


 
Joined
Aug 12, 1999
Messages
779
He speaks eloquently with his product too, as my interest in the AKTI is due to a brochure that I found in the box of an Old Timer 'Mighty Mite' that I recently purchased.
 
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