The next super steel

D

dsalazar

Joined
Jun 22, 2017
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I wanted to see what the consensus is with the "super steels". When is it going to end. There are so many variations of steel specifically for knives. The understanding is cost in tooling is more for super steels.

How many more variation can be made while not being redundant. How many would continue to buy new steels if new ones are being made.
 
I don’t really gel with this line of thinking, as if research and development loses its value after you reach some subjective number of outcomes. It’s not as if it hurts anyone to have a wider variety of alloys being tested and implemented into folders.

Different compositions have various applications. Most of the super steels are a result of the development of industrial equipment, so what you’re really seeing is a few knife companies (primarily Spyderco) trying them out in tried-and-true platforms. There are really very few metals that you see regularly employed in production knives.

Basically, I don’t get this veiled gripe. Smacks of an “old man yells at cloud” situation.
 
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Don't get me wrong I like variety. The ability to choose. Just like cars. I might not need a car with v8 pushing 400+ horsepower but it floats my boat. I do like the fact that spyderco does the mule line in different steel to test. Then they put them on folders.

I just wanted to see what people think on how much higher the bar can be raised. Kind of like when 154cm, s30v, s35vn and the likes where super steels. How many more until the super steels become just regular old steel.
 
Tseg said:
Disruptive technology will be next... some ceramic liquid moly self-sharpening self-healing "steel" will be next.
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I would like to see something along these lines. Chasing carbide content has a lot of trade offs that make it less attractive. Will we get some sort of all new material?
 
I'm sure that the application of the knife is going to determine which steel is best suited. I doubt there's going to be an end all steel. Or maybe the liquid metal from terminator 2.
 
A lot of steels are in the same general category, filling a similar niche. Like S35VN, M390, XHP, and Elmax. Arguing which is better is within a fairly narrow range of properties. There are still unfilled areas of property combinations. Or steels which exist but have poor availibility or poor understanding in the marketplace. There really aren't many steels designed specifically for knives so there are still many gaps, especially for stainless steels where most have been designed for bearings or the plastics industry. With few being designed for such a small industry, it is unlikely that all possibilities have been explored. And that is without even considering potential innovations in steel.
 
Larrin said:
A lot of steels are in the same general category, filling a similar niche. Like S35VN, M390, XHP, and Elmax. Arguing which is better is within a fairly narrow range of properties. There are still unfilled areas of property combinations. Or steels which exist but have poor availibility or poor understanding in the marketplace. There really aren't many steels designed specifically for knives so there are still many gaps, especially for stainless steels where most have been designed for bearings or the plastics industry. With few being designed for such a small industry, it is unlikely that all possibilities have been explored. And that is without even considering potential innovations in steel.
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Very true on the overlap. It's one of the reason I was seeing how many more steels can be made for knives. It seems tool steel is a common one for knives. Makes sense being that a knife is a tool. There are some specific steels that where made for knives. With all the steels out for any application there are so many that are already great for knives. You points are very valid.
Larrin said:
A lot of steels are in the same general category, filling a similar niche. Like S35VN, M390, XHP, and Elmax. Arguing which is better is within a fairly narrow range of properties. There are still unfilled areas of property combinations. Or steels which exist but have poor availibility or poor understanding in the marketplace. There really aren't many steels designed specifically for knives so there are still many gaps, especially for stainless steels where most have been designed for bearings or the plastics industry. With few being designed for such a small industry, it is unlikely that all possibilities have been explored. And that is without even considering potential innovations in steel.
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I think, really, the next big thing besides pushing the limits of functional high-wear-resistance steels will be making even better corrosion-resistant alloys - as has been mentioned, things like LC200N are excellent developments from a practical standpoint / user maintenance.

Given that it's only niche hobbyists that are interested in the extreme ends of knife-related metallurgy, a blade being somewhat harder to sharpen is likely to be an understood tradeoff for higher wear resistance; people who want to get the most out of 10V will already have diamond stones ready for the task.

I think we'll hit a peak sometime around when someone develops an alloy that is essentially impervious to corrosion, but has the wear resistance of M4 and the toughness of 4V. That kind of dream metal, were it ever to exist, would be hard to improve upon for a large percentage of us. Even then, finding alloys that are cheaper to make but have the qualities of other high-end alloys will still be a fruitful field of research and development as it would drive the prices down.
 
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I'd love to have nitrobe77 and vanax super clean but the problem is the heat treatment is more involved with these so you won't see the mass production market utilizing these steels not only that but they are expensive or limited in quantity.

The best option is to go custom knife. Find someone that specializes in the steel and heat treatment for the task at hand.

Sufice it to say, most mass production isn't going to maximize its true potential of the steel itself. Heat treatment is important but so is geometry, more so.
Example...
N690 that surpassed spydercos and Benchmades m390 in edge retention cutting rope. Or s110v that lasts way longer than anything else tested thus far.
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/8000-cuts-cultrotech-svarn-2-cpm-s110v.1616933/
The geometry on those knives is if not zero grind, near zero grind. But the ht seems to support it well.

Same goes for d2... Carothers performance knives d2 vs mass production China d2... Big differences.

If you want to try something new... Try something custom.

Phil Wilson, Michael Raymond, CultroTech, Big Chris, Carothers, etc.
 
Comeuppance said:
I think, really, the next big thing besides pushing the limits of functional high-wear-resistance
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Yes a steel like that would be nice. When and if, more hopefully when that happens. Do you think cost would justify steel for using or at that point just something to add to the collection? With some prices of super steels right now. The reason I ask is I've had some super steels but have sold most off. Besides a couple fixed blades. Would you have your favorite knife in the one greatest steel or multiple knives in the steels already out.
 
IMO, progress is over-blown in terms of technical benefit.

In terms of marketing, it's crucial. In terms of driving GDP in a consumer capitalist society, it's necessary as a near religious assertion to keep employment at reasonable levels. From this latter perspective, there will always be a new super-[fill in the blank] to render last year's products obsolete and spur new purchasing.
 
Its not vary fair to compare customs and production. Production is filling a wide range of users. Custom knives are just that. They get special attention from start to end. Heat treatment is very important. A good example is buck using 420hc. They have a good heat treat. Also about the d2 those are 2 different ends of the spectrum. I would still like to see the best of the best. Them given to a Custom knife maker. I can only imagine minds being blown.
Mo2 said:
I'd love to have nitrobe77 and vanax super clean but the problem is the heat treatment is more involved with these so you won't see the mass production market utilizing these steels not only that but they are expensive or limited in quantity.

The best option is to go custom knife. Find someone that specializes in the steel and heat treatment for the task at hand.

Sufice it to say, most mass production isn't going to maximize its true potential of the steel itself. Heat treatment is important but so is geometry, more so.
Example...
N690 that surpassed spydercos and Benchmades m390 in edge retention cutting rope. Or s110v that lasts way longer than anything else tested thus far.
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/8000-cuts-cultrotech-svarn-2-cpm-s110v.1616933/
The geometry on those knives is if not zero grind, near zero grind. But the ht seems to support it well.

Same goes for d2... Carothers performance knives d2 vs mass production China d2... Big differences.

If you want to try something new... Try something custom.

Phil Wilson, Michael Raymond, CultroTech, Big Chris, Carothers, etc.
Click to expand...
 
No matter the hype. S35VN, M390, D2, CPM154, Elmax, 20CV and equal steels will always make me :)

Well rounded. The Goldie Lox zone.
 
BellaBlades said:
No matter the hype. S35VN, M390, D2, CPM154, Elmax, 20CV and equal steels will always make me :)

Well rounded. The Goldie Lox zone.[/QUOTE would you think then better to perfect these steels as in heat treat and geometry. Well for different applications that a Jack of all- master of none.
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If Vanax Superclean can make its way into some production knives (are you reading this Spyderco?) that seems like a logical next step.
 
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