The Original Bowie Knife-Where Is It???

B

Bert Jenkins

Joined
Mar 24, 2000
Messages
1
I read somewhere that THE "Original" Bowie Knife was held by a Mexican Family in Mexico. The story read like this. During the battle and defeat of the Texans that defended The Alamo, Jim Bowie, who was ill and bed-ridden with fever, was overwhelmed and killed by Mexican soldiers that stormed The Alamo. The Original Bowie Knife was taken along side the body of Jim Bowie and taken as booty by a Mexican soldier as a soveigner of the battle and taken back to Mexico. This knife has been handed down by the offsprings of this Mexican soldier as an heirloom through generations. I also read that the U.S. Government was trying to offer this Mexican Family millions to get this knife back, but they will not let it go for any amount of money. Have you heard this story??? Is it true??? What have you heard? Please email me at work and at home for your comments. - Bert

Email (Work): jenkinsw@lucent.com
Email (Home): wrjenkins@worldnet.att.net
 
I heard that the Vatican has it stored in a secret vault right next to St. John's baby rattle.



------------------
Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com
 
I heard that Lord Lukin stabbed Elvis with it.
smile.gif


------------------
“Now that I’ve had my say, however, you may be wondering - don’t I sometimes get called a Nazi? Yes, name-calling, in which conservatives such as myself are so loath to indulge, is a favourite tactic of the liberals. I have often been called a Nazi, and although it is unfair, I don’t let it bother me. I don’t let it bother me for one simple reason. No one has ever had a fantasy about being tied to a bed and sexually ravished by someone dressed as a liberal.” P.J. O’Rourke – ‘Give war a chance’
 
Actually, I have the original Bowie knife. It's kind of weird in that it looks a lot like an old BM Ascent. I'm willing to sell it for $20. It has "J. Bowie" written on it in blue crayon.
wink.gif


------------------
Cerulean

"Just because some folks think you make great kydex sheaths doesn't make you into some sort of mind reading psychologist." -Paracelsus
 
I suggest you go and ask Bernard Levine in his forum about some good sources of information on the subject.

As far as I can tell there was more than one 'Bowie' knife.

Rezin Bowie stated that he gave his brother a large hunting knife that was used at the famous Vidalia Sandbar dual-the one that would be called the original Bowie if you like. See Levines Guide p.319-20 for a picture and information of the knife he beleaves to be this first model.

As far as the knife that was used at the Alamo, there are several claims regarding this model.

The Moore family of Texas claim that they own this knife, which they aquired off a Mexican farmhand I beleave. Jack Crain made some replicas of this model in the '80's. You can see a picture of one of these on p54 of Greg Walkers book 'Battle Blades'.

Also in Mr Walkers book is a knife owned by a Mr Joe Musso which has a claim to be a genuine 'Bowie',( p55 ) .

The knife making firm of George Wostenholm claimed in their sales literature in the 19th century that Jim Bowie had one of their *XL models with him at the Alamo, which may have been the case.

Nobody knows for sure which knife was carried at the Alamo and there is no way of proving one way or the other the claims that have been made. It is unlikely that the US govt would be throwing money at a Mexican farmer for his knife for this reason.
You also have to ask why the govt would want to buy Bowie's knife anyway.
 
There probably never was an original "Bowie knife." The pattern can be traced back well into the middle ages. So there was nothing original about Bowie's knife.

All we know for certain was that, on or about September 19, 1827, Jim Bowie, a well known crooked near-do-well, participated in a brawl on the banks of the Mississippi river. During which he fatally stabbed at least 1 person. The rest of the story was quickly lost to hype.

The story was carried in a large number of newspapers accross the contry and eventually in Europe (it must have been a slow news day, and week - or - month?). People became interested in owning knives like the one Bowie had used, and there were plenty of entreprneurs in America and especially in Europe that were willing to invent one for them. Again, this was pure hype, nobody knew what the knife looked like.

If Bowie's knife had been either described in detail or otherwise generally known there would have been no need for the seemingly endless variations found on the Bowie knives of the 1830s and 40s. Since no one knows what the original knife looked like virtually anyone with an old knife can claim to have the original article. And plenty have done just that.

Next up: The Excalibur sword - Actually I already have the original in my collection
smile.gif


 
It's sitting right in an old shoe box on the top shelf of my closet where it will stay.
Bob
 
I live just a few miles from the town that Rezin Bowie was residing in when he,according to local history, made the first Bowie knife. The town is Marksville and there is a historical marker on the town square that states as much. I doubt Jim Bowie was carrying the original knife with him when he died. I have read he had several knives made for him during the years he lived in Texas and was carrying one of these during the Battle of the Alamo.
 
not2sharp, don't you think that you're being a little hard on old Jim? He is no better, but no worse, than many of his contempraries. He was, indeed, a brawler of some repute and of great skill, but I have seen no indication that he went looking for fights. Please remember that he lived in a culture where a man was expected to defend his "honor" and was unable to function effectively if he did not. Bowie was very good at that and was, therefore, not required to do so as often as others.

I also suggest that you try reading a history of the Vidalia Sandbar Fight before you make such judgemental statements about it. This was, at best, a complicated affair involving a whole series of interrelated hostilities, both political and personal, going back years. Jim was a second in a duel and was attacked by the other man's seconds and damned near killed in the bargain before he killed the man he killed. It was nowhere near the one-sided affair that you imply.

He and his brothers had been involved in "blackbirding" (illegally bringing slaves into the U.S.) and, perhaps, land fraud involving Spanish land grants. He realized that the blackbirding was wrong and got out of it and the Spanish land grant business was one in which many, many others were both victims and victimizers and it is difficult to tell, at this remove, which.



------------------
Walk in the Light,
Hugh Fuller
 
You're all wrong! I, being a Texan, have The Original Bowie. However, it was not useful as it was, so I cut the handle off and put on some G-10 and BT2 coated the blade. Now it is a fighter! I dare any of you to challenge MY honor now that I have my original tactical bowie.

Sidebar, do you think that Ol' Jim cared that his blade reflected light?

Sorry, I am really bored at work, and it's kind of cold in my office, so I thought a good flaming might help today
biggrin.gif
biggrin.gif
tongue.gif


Jared

------------------
Broken promises don't upset me. I just think, why did they believe me?

I hope that after I die, people will say of me: "That guy sure owed me a lot of money."

[This message has been edited by Flesh Gordon (edited 03-24-2000).]
 
FULLER,

I didn't mean to imply that the fight was one sided. Bowie was certainly no worse than many of his contemporaries (or ours).

Anyone interested should read "The Famous Bowie Knife," by Lucy Leigh Bowie (1916). Ben Palmer called the paper "the only definitive work on Colnel Bowie and his knife."


 
On a serious note, there is an excellant article on James Black and the Bowie knives in an old issue of KNIFE WORLD (December 1992 Vol 18, Number 12) with special reference to the CARRIGAN BOWIE which traces the ownership back to JUDGE THOMAS HUBBARD, who in 1853, gave it to his step-son AUGUSTUS H. GARLAND. GARLAND gave the knife to JAMES KIMBROUGH JONES, who passed it on to his son, who in turn gave it to his nephew, STEVE CARRIGAN JR in whose family it remains. CARRIGAN wrote a history of the knife in 1936. The knife in question is of a coffin handled guardless design.

I know that this will only add more heat to this thread, but hope it helps

Rick Carignan
(no relation)
 
Ok, I don't know were the Original Bowie knife is, but I heard that if you find HOFFA you will find the knife.
 
If anyone is interested, read BOWIE KNIFE by Raymond W. Thorp. As of it's publication in 1949, Mr. Thorp had spent a good amount of his life researching the knife. The facts he discovered were pretty much irrefutable as far as he was able to go. The sheer energy expended by Thorp in his research and travels lend a great deal of credibility to his conclusions, which would refute most but not all of the commentaries so far posted.
wink.gif
Defference given to FullerH for his obvious knowledge of not only the facts of the situation but of the motivations of the people of the era.

A very interesting part of the book is the chapter about the various laws enacted around the country in the mid to late 19th century to outlaw the "Bowie" knife as dangerous.

Of one particular note regarding the English importations of "Bowies" is that not a one of them made one until the 1840s. At least 4 years after Jim Bowie'sdeath. It is factual that there was a singular "Bowie" knife made by James Black and that it was an improvement over the design that Bowie had requested. Seeing as how this occasion was a few years after the Vidalia Sandbar incident when Bowie killed Major Norris Wright with a handmade (by Rezin P. Bowie) butcher knife.

From information pieced together by assorted accounts originally given by the few other participants, Bowie had been shot twice (hip & arm), run through the side of the chest with a sword cane once and clubbed with an empty pistol. All this and he was not even one of the principals in the original duel.

Sounds like my kind of guy.
Mark

------------------
A Patriot's Work Is Never Done--greetings from The Occupied South

[This message has been edited by truedge (edited 03-24-2000).]
 
Originally posted by Cobalt:
...if you find HOFFA you will find the knife.
Click to expand...

Are you trying to tell me it was ground up and made into hot dogs?..........Oooooops!
 
There is a really well researched book by Dr. James Batson on the Sandbar duel. It contains many newspaper accounts of the duel and letters by the participants themselves. It is usually advertised in Blade Magazine.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top