The Ox-Head/Oschenkopf Double Bit

scruffuk

scruffuk

Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
2,679
The other week somone had challenged fellow member Frank-New Zealand with a the question as to why there are no double bits in NZ. Well, d'ya know, there ain't any (or many) in the UK either....they're like rocking horse sh!t!

I decided to take a look at what Ox Head had to offer, especially as I'd found it difficult to find any info out about them, or, what I had, seemed contrary to some of the seasoned and reasoned views and articles I have read about them.

This is their 'Ochsenkopf 1591223 OX 16 H-1008 Axe Twin-ILTIS®, Model Canada'
(Specs from site)
Weight of head: 1000g
Edge length(s): 135mm
OAL: 900mm
OAW: 2100g

Anyway, it arrived yesterday and it leaves today....it just ain't got enough meat in the cheeks!

Here are some pics (take on my iPhone at work :o)

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Nice turn ups huh? ;)

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Its like a flat piece of steel that someone has drifted and eye into (it probably is just that to be fair).

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No percevable belly or 'high centre' what-so-ever.

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They have rounded off the 'fragile' toes

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Acceptable masks but made from what I believe is bonded leather. Its a good job it was so blunt ("you could ride bare arsed to Blackpool on it!") as I don't think it would have lasted long against a keen edge.

Whilst the balance of the axe seemed okay, I could not get over the extraordinary (to me) size of the helve at the shoulders!
Its like they are compensating for the lack of heft of the axe with all that wood. I'm sure it would have penetrated nicely, but I think it would have been tiring to lever out. And, with its slim profile, it put me in no better stead than my current axe predicament, where wood processing is concerned, and certainly not worth the effort of sharpening!

This was really a disappointing 'venture' but as we are, in the UK, protected as a consumer by the Distance Selling Regulations, I knew at the very least, I'd only be down £20 or so delivery/return.

The axe (inc. taxes) came in at £87.31 ($140!!!).
 
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Wow--it's like somebody drifted an eye on a machete! I agree that that's rather disappointing given the glowing reviews I've heard of other models of theirs. If memory serves correctly, the double bit axe was developed in the United States so given that it might make sense that a European maker could be a little confused as to how to properly render the style in terms of bit geometry. European and American axes tend to be very different in that regard.
 
That Ox-Head seems quite racy to me.

I'd love to give it good work out, and would not judge it by looks alone.

That said, it does seem quite pricy.




Big Mike
 
Well atleast we know that company makes decent steel so it should hold up. Yeah I don't like to judge an axe before using it. But I would put my double against it any day :D

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excellent look into a cross continent screw up.most of our axes originated in the old country except the double bits , the back cross was sterile in this case , how interesting things play out.

Ox Head makes some real nice choppers. i've only handled one example.

i am over loaded with double bits,LOL they crop up around here like red-headed buck -toothed step children

glad you showed the profile.
would it not be a good soft wood chopper?

thanks for posting

buzz
 
Thanks for letting us learn from your experience. Some related experience:

Steve Tall said:
(written by Peter Vido)

...a suitable chopping ax should not only sink into wood with relative ease, but also release itself from the cut sort of “automatically”. By this I mean that just a slight tug will bring it back to starting position without disturbing the “chi” of chopping. (I am not talking of splitting right now, though the principle is the same). The “high centerline" convex-ness of a fuller-faced ax helps in this regard because the wood has less surface to “grab onto/squeeze/hold” than if the sunk portion of the ax face is flat.

I noticed this years ago (and before I read much ax-related “how to”) when I first began using the double-bitted Ox-Head to fell green poplar trees. In spite of a very positive initial expectation for this famous “ringing” ax, I eventually concluded that a plain old American model was easier to use. In any event, I could cut more wood in a mornings-worth of chopping with the latter, regardless of whether it was a Plumb, Collins, Walters, Campbell, etc., or for that matter the Swedish axes made for the North American market in the past. The Wetterlings would fit into that category as well, because its (“full”) face is convex-sided. I might add that our impressive-looking Ox-Head double-bit has been collecting dust for many years...
Click to expand...
 
I think it is intended to be used as a notching axe (for cutting felling notches) in softwood conifers. For that purpose it may be great (once sharpened), but probably not a great "allarounder."
 
cattledog said:
Does he post here?
Click to expand...

I don't think so. I'm mostly familiar with his work on The Scythe Connection. Knows his stuff! Doesn't fall into the "American scythe-bashing" crowd, though he still mostly pushes European scythes. I wish he's give the American pattern a bit more of a chance to prove itself--it took me a while to learn how to use mine properly (and I'm still refining my technique) but it does a phenomenal job.

Never seen him write on axe stuff but it seems that Steve has a connection.
 
M3mphis said:
I think it is intended to be used as a notching axe (for cutting felling notches) in softwood conifers. For that purpose it may be great (once sharpened), but probably not a great "allarounder."
Click to expand...

That seems to be the prevailing logic for euro axemens. I still don't get it. If I am cutting green pine, even notching, I want a fairly fat bit with a very convex face. You could make the oxhead work though, if you put an undercut in with a crosscut/chainsaw, but you could do it just as well with an american axe that can also do a plethora of other jobs.

FortyTwoBlades said:
I don't think so. I'm mostly familiar with his work on The Scythe Connection. Knows his stuff! Doesn't fall into the "American scythe-bashing" crowd, though he still mostly pushes European scythes. I wish he's give the American pattern a bit more of a chance to prove itself--it took me a while to learn how to use mine properly (and I'm still refining my technique) but it does a phenomenal job.

Never seen him write on axe stuff but it seems that Steve has a connection.
Click to expand...

He posts via Steve sometimes if I remember right. I also seem to recall "the scythe book" saying something along the lines of "Too heavy, not effecient" in regards to American scythes. Ya know, the usual. Whether that was Peter or David Tresemer who wrote that, I have yet to figure out as I have only briefly looked at the book.
 
It was Tresemer who wrote it. IIRC, Peter actually pretty much rips the book (and many Euro scythe retailers) a new one in terms of it putting the misconception of the American scythe sucking out there, amongst some other criticisms. He says on the Scythe Connection that the American pattern is a very functional tool, but that he prefers Euros. That's really the majority of what I was able to find of his thoughts on the thing. :p

Not to derail things too much but I wonder what the lift of the tang is on the present production Seymour grass blades, as I often see the lack thereof as a criticism of American pattern blades. I've only seen ditch and bush blades around local shops and they all have little or no lift at all because of the different swing they're used with. American bush/ditch blades cut with a lifting stroke rather than the horizontal stroke of the grass blades. The vintage grass blades I stumble across all have nice lift to the tangs to set the edge on a more horizontal sweep.

I'd love to just sit down and talk shop with Vido. Seems like we have a similar approach to a lot of things.
 
G-pig said:
...He posts via Steve sometimes if I remember right...
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Yeah, I offered to format and post to the forum for him (as well as get his AxeConnected blog going). He lives off the grid and occasionally emails me some text and photos from a neighbor's dial-up connection.
 
Wow! That one is great. Just for you guys to notice... that´s the only (!!!) double bit which is available here in germany. I always wanted to have one. But because of your pics... I need one... thats all your fault ;) :D

Kind regards
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
It was Tresemer who wrote it. IIRC, Peter actually pretty much rips the book (and many Euro scythe retailers) a new one in terms of it putting the misconception of the American scythe sucking out there, amongst some other criticisms. He says on the Scythe Connection that the American pattern is a very functional tool, but that he prefers Euros. That's really the majority of what I was able to find of his thoughts on the thing. :p
Click to expand...

Interesting.. Didn't Peter write an addendum for that book? I don't own it so I am out of my element here.
 
Yup! It's still a mostly good book and has a lot of good information and historical value. Just does the American scythe one heck of a disservice. The book features two articles written by Vido. There's a good explanation of everything here.
 
Hey folks, thanks for all the feedback.

The use M3mphis describes would seem to make sense.
For me, here in my neck of the woods, it's pretty much useless though.
We have Silver Birch and the occasion stands of pine (plantation) but generally I'm using Beech and Goat Willow to stay warm. For processing this kind of lumber it's just not going to work.
And in all honesty, I could not afford to spend the money on something with such limited use.

cattledog - thanks for the heads up. I enjoy reading your reviews and have stumbled accross quite a few of yours on kit over the last few weeks that I've book marked for later. I'm certainly gonna look into that brand some more. Have I seen a review of yours on a single bit Ox-Head?

Mr Tall - I meant to write and thank you in some of your recent posts for sharing Mr Vido's writings with us. I have been reading through them all since you posted the Twist Method videos and info.
Thank him for me as his writings have really struck a chord ;) and piqued mu interest so so much more in he science behind the axe. Needless to say I have Mr Cook's book on order now too!

Oh and thank you for pointing out MY typo!

Humppa -They do in fact make a double bit thrower and shorter handled version of this one...but it's double the price!!

A double bit is certainly next on my agenda. I have an eye out for them in the usual places. Maybe I will get a second hand one from the US, the carriage is quite prohibitive though. I am envious of all you guys who just stumble across all these awesome old heads!
 
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