The problem with 'survival' knives

Your using "smash" instead of cut or split is revealing of the point-of-view you hold.

The worst example of any activity is simply that - the worst example.

Personally, I have very rarely needed to baton wood and have never had to smash it with any tool.

It is nice to know that a given knife can be used to cut or split wood using a baton should the need arise. Still, my favorite knives for the wilderness have are 4-5" blades. Then, too, I carry a folding pruning saw.
 
Velitrius said:
I don't care what kind of knife they had... how long or thick it is, what kind of super steel it's made of, whether it's Boris74 approved or not... the knife wasn't getting them out of there. A flashlight or a bic lighter would have gotten them back to the truck in a heartbeat.
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Hell yes. :)

It wasn't a "survival situation", but I learned the value of light at night back in my later-mid teenage years.
We had gone to a wooded area right on the outskirts of town; there are trails through it, and people like to hike and bike through there.
Teens also like to party out there...

My friends and I ran into another group of teens...some guys, some girls, some beers.
We hung out till it was getting dark...time to head out.

We were right in the middle, so it took some time to walk out, long enough to become completely dark, and no one had a flashlight.
I did have a Bic lighter though :) (pretty sure it was a Bic...don't think I'd bought my Zippo yet, but it was many years back).

Anyway, the light of that little flame allowed us to see our way out, including crossing the stream that was "bridged" by some logs of various length and girth that others had tossed in there for that purpose.
About 9 people making their way out the woods in the dark by the light of one small flame.

I had a knife (cheap one from the used furniture store, if I remember correctly), but it wasn't needed for the beers or the walk out.

Now I always have a flashlight in my backpack, and often a headlamp as well.
 
Camillus said:
there were no other 'big knife' tasks in the survival knife tests. Ie no other tests that a medium or small knife had to perform but couldn't.
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Because splitting sawn wood is the easiest thing to show in one's backyard.
That's pretty much it.

It takes more work--and time--to go out through the woods itself, showing what use one gets from any knife, large or small.
It's easier to open the box that came in the mail while you were at work, and split some wood or make a feather stick while the food cooks in the oven.

In that show Alone you could see the use that a large knife had to some contestants.
Lucas batonned in order to create various useful items.
The winner had a Condor Knives Heavy Kukri, a 10 inch blade knife.

Of course, some others had smaller knives and lasted for a decent amount of time.

On Naked and Afraid XL the TOPS SXB (a large knife) was used for chopping, and to dig a small well for drinking water.

In either of those cases though, it was a lot more effort and a lot more time than anyone ever puts into a YouTube video. ;)
 
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Batoning is a technique you should know how to do — and make sure, through sensible planning and the gear you bring, that you never have to do it.
 
Good points stabman. There are tons of awesome knives out there and I'd like to use an old boxing phrase: all things being equal a good big man will beat a good little man any day. Don't knock a great knife because it's big, or tacticool, or the marketing is corny. A good tool is a good tool.
 
There's no moment more fraught with spine tingling exileration than when one believes for that fleeting micro second, God forbid, that your lost and disoriented deep in the back and beyond. You stop aimlessly walking and feel your heart pounding heavily in your chest. You tentatively reach for your trusty and precious folding or fixed blade knife, and fleetingly consider your options. Should I set up camp or find my way? You catch your breath, ascertain the position of a possibly recognisizable celestial object, and using your brain, decide to recount your steps and walk half embarrassed back to safety. Having never had to unsheath that million dollar survival knife which you extensively researched on BladeForum.
 
pinnah said:
Gaston,

As former bike mechanic and long time bike tourer, I would be interested to know what sort of failure you had.

I went coast/coast in the 80s long before a cell phone call for help was possible and still do the occasional remote gravel grind type tour where, again, you can get pretty remote and on your own pretty fast.

I'll be the first to concede that there are bike failures that you just can't prepare for: a tacoed wheel or a fractured frame, for instance. The same is true for cars, skis, snowshoes and lots of other modes of transportation. My approach is a) to carry enough kit to repair common failures while keeping weight under control and b) to pretty much always, always, always have my "10 Essentials" kit with me if I'm remote. I keep it in the back of my car and it goes in my bags on any adventure.

I have this climber's mindset in the frontcountry too. I always have a small backpack near at hand, not on my person all the time but at least in the car. I get some ribbing from my family sometimes but they also rely on it. We went sailing with my bro-in-law on a rented boat yesterday and somebody asked about a first kit. "Dave has one." And I did, along with a knife, multitool, knife, lighter and other basic EDC stuff I keep with me.

I stand by my statement.

IMO, there's a threshold between frontcountry and backcountry. It's hard to see, easy to cross unnoticed and closer than you think. We see it all the time in the northeast. Cyclists on logging roads. XC skiers. People taking ski lifts, trams and railroads to mountain summits and then hiking down. People on short day hikes. Skiers at Tuckermans...

What I see are people without adequate knowledge and gear. I maintain that the more interesting question to ask is, what's in your essentials kit and how does a knife integrate into that?
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I'll remind you I was probably not even outside City limits... I was very lucky to even have the knife...

The bike's gear changing was showing signs of weakness for some time, though it's hard to remember exactly what those warnings signs were like: I could sense something was fragile on uphills, and that it lessened stress on the "fragility" to downshift... Then I neglected to shift down far enough on an uphill (I think in part because the lower gears were a bit hard to shift down to) so I simply used extra effort on the pedals on the uphill... The extra effort on the pedals caused the entire "cog wheel and angled-down arm" gear-shifting assembly to basically disassemble itself... There were literally mutiple pieces that clanged on the ground(!)... The spring-loaded angle-down arm was split open and had coughed one of the two small gear wheels... The reason for the bike's poor condition was continued use during winter (this was March 1), as the snow melted on the mechanism every time I brought the bike home...

I'd made the decision to stray way off at the last minute, and did not have a cell phone... I had no intention of going far when I decided to do so... Those huge industrial wastelands are deader than a post-nuclear scenario on a Sunday... Then it went from sunny +12°C to minus 20 windchill in a couple of hours...

Gaston
 
If I'm ever forced in a "survival" situation, my dearest wish is that no media is around to spout pictures all over the nets...This said, the most needed survival item I've ever experienced was water. Plain, pure water. The knife was just a useful tool to have along.
 
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Staying hydrated is very important as you begin to not think clearly when you get dehydrated and of course being seriously dehydrated can kill ya. A knife is important and this is a knife forum, so take along a knife that you have confidence in using. Stick to what you are comfortable with as you will be safer and you don't want a knife injury in a survival situation combining with other issues.

And yes, batonning wood with a knife is a good skill to know how to do properly even if it normally is not necessary.

If you like big knives (aka ≥ 7 inch blade length), then by all means carry a large knife. I tend to choose something in the 5"-6" length as that is what I am comfortable with. Let's call that my "personal" fixed blade and longer bladed tools are chosen as the need presents it self. I do like machetes, long and short for chopping and opening up a parth. I am not fond of clearing a field of vegetation (trees, brush, and briars) with a machete of any kind. But I am fully capable of doing so if I had to.
 
Camillus said:
Here is a survival situation

http://i.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/ne...-be-alive-after-rescue-from-freezing-mountain

Let's leave the TV shows out of this discussion please.
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A knife is no good if there isn't a brain to use it. Those two had not a brain between them. Not really relevant to your OP. And stabby
Is right, if you want use YouTube as a reference anything is fair game.

I'm a knife nut. I have a knife with me when ever it is legal. So when I go into the woods I will have a knife. What type(s) and how big depend on my intended tasks and what I feel like. In this day and age and where most of us live, a true survival situation is very unlikely. If one did happen I'd have a knife but hopefully much more important things. I mostly enjoy this hobby and using knives for fun.
 
LostViking's thread on the Kabar was interesting and entertaining. I need to visit the Kabar forum more regularly.

This follows a thread done in the Becker Forum on the BK-15 which I also found interesting. I really like the BK-15 for a woods knife and it would probably be comparable to the Kabar Marine utility/survival knife. Never really cared much for that knife, but I know it works. The knife is less important than the skills.
 
We went for little coffee making last weekend, casual camping and stuff. I took my Mora and Hudson Bay knife. As we were in the campsite, and being at natural park of sorts, there was government provided firewood. I was a little surprised that my dad didn't take axe with him or it wasn't in the car anyway. I processed some of the wood by batoning the wood thinner to get the fire started easier. Yes, I could have collected sticks from the forrest (that were mostly damp because of the constant rain) but I batoned away. It was handy as heck. Sue me. :D
And I continue to carry the Hudson Bay as I just find it handy at some tasks. No survival, just camping.
 
Camping is good. The Hudson Bay is a good camp knife. It might even be a decent survival knife if you are comfortable using it. :D Those old fur trappers knew a few things about making do.
 
herisson said:
If I'm ever forced in a "survival" situation, my dearest wish is that no media is around to spout pictures all over the nets...This said, the most needed survival item I've ever experienced was water. Plain, pure water. The knife was just a useful tool to have along.
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A knife can be used to help start a fire for boiling water. Drinking "local" water fresh from the source can make a person very sick and lead to their agonizing death. A fire can also be used to melt snow for drinking water.

It's unlikely that a person is going to carry gallons of water with them while on a hike or camping deep in the bush, or enough water to last them through an unexpected emergency situation. So it's a good idea to have the means to purify the local water.

There are various methods for "purifying" water. There are filter straws, iodine tablets, etc. Personally, I prefer boiling the hell out of it.

And of course, fire starting equipment should be an essential part of ones wilderness survival gear.
 
Camillus said:
<snip> This got me thinking, what tasks are relevant in a survival situation? I just don't think I know. There could be a whole bunch of stuff - it depends where you are trying to survive and what you are doing. Certainly, the type of tasks that a backpacker or trekker uses a knife for would be relevant, but so would the tasks that a hunter does, and probably a general handyman as well. But the more you think about those varied types of situations, the less likely it seems that you would actually be relying on one knife as a multipurpose survival tool. You would need to be on your own, in remote wilderness, without a vehicle, and having to live off the land, all of which seems very unlikely. The most likely way this could come about is if you were already in the wilderness for the purpose of trekking or hunting, and somehow gotten lost, and then needed to live in the wilderness for a protracted period of time with very limited resources. Generally, this situation would befall someone who was inexperienced in the outdoors, couldn't navigate and hadn't make contingency plans if anything went wrong. If that person was a hunter or trekker, and was a knowledgeable outdoors man, they would have selected a knife primarily for its hunting or trekking capability, not for survival purposes. Their knife would not have been chosen for its ability to smash large bits of wood into smaller bits of wood. Nor would they select a knife based on building large or complex structures, trail clearing, farming or other tasks that knives like Kukri's are used for.

All of which makes me think that a 'survival' knife might make a great truck knife, where it may perform a range of different purposes, or if it could also be used as a self-defence weapon, it might be useful tool for a soldier (or more likely, an airman or driver who is pressed for room but not for weight), but the type of 'survival' tasks that you see people using 'survival' knives for on Youtube videos seem completely inappropriate when considered against a real, as opposed to an imaginary, survival situation.
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Thought I would bring this thread around to the OP and his thoughts. Yes, many so called survival knives would make a good truck knife. I think you sound like your headed toward a BK-9 or BK-7. I think the Condor Kumunga would make a pretty fair SHTF knife or a truck knife. I say, if you are going big, you might as well go bigger.
 
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