The Steel of the Future: AerMet 100 Steel > Infi Steel

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I've been a busse fan for years, and a long time lurker first time poster. It is very gratifying to see the progression of knives from stainless and simple carbon steels to tool and propriartary steels like "infi". As research and technology progress, it's only natural that there is going to be changes and improvements.

Infi is a great steel, and has served Busse for a long time. However, technology has shown an even better steel that is available for knife making. That being AerMet 100. LMT uses AerMet 100 in their "Enhanced" M16 bolts, and they have NEVER broken a bolt (typical M16 bolt lasts between 4k - 12k rounds on average in an M4 type riflem, with stress fractures showing up as early as 2k rounds).

Check it out! Not only is it a vastly superior steel to anything else that is currently used on the market (much stronger than L6, S7, and even Infi) but it is not too expensive to boot! A real win win!

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http://www.mmsonline.com/articles/tooling-alloy-started-in-aerospace
Tooling Alloy Started In Aerospace

Tooling alloy was invented to meet the demanding specifications for landing gear components of U. S. Navy carrier-based jet aircraft. It was discovered that this material alloy had certain outstanding properties that recommended it as an effective upgrade for conventional tooling materials.
Article From: 3/1/1996 Modern Machine Shop

Sometimes an alloy developed specifically for one industry provides solutions to materials problems in another one. That's what has happened in the case of AerMet 100 alloy from Carpenter Technology Corp. (Reading, Pennsylvania).

This specialty alloy was invented to meet the demanding specifications for landing gear components of U. S. Navy carrier-based jet aircraft. Companies working with this material began to discover that the alloy had certain outstanding properties that recommended it as an effective upgrade for conventional tooling materials.

With a little modification in mill processing, the developers were able to customize a variation of the original alloy, which has been used by tool makers and machine shops. The new material, known as AerMet-for-Tooling alloy, is made to tool steel tolerances, but is tested more extensively than other tool steels. Its chemical composition remains the same as that of the grade used in aerospace applications.

The alloy characteristics that have been valued in aerospace applications are now available for tooling applications requiring extraordinary high-strength and exceptional fracture toughness. In a growing number of tooling applications, this steel has been found to be a substitute for traditional tool steels to prevent the premature cracking or breaking of tools under heavy load or impact, or to solve those problems when they do occur.

What has made this alloy so distinctive as a tooling material is the combination of ultra high-strength with fracture toughness its developers believe is superior to that of any steel currently available. It can be heat treated to 280-300 ksi (280,000-300,000 psi) tensile strength while exhibiting fracture toughness in excess of 100 ksi Öinch at 280 ksi. It can be heat treated to a hardness of 53.5-55.0 Rc, and exhibit Charpy V-notch impact resistance in excess of 30 foot-pounds longitudinally. It has fatigue resistance and ductility that is well in excess of that for any tool steel, combined with tool steel hardness, developers say.

While commonly used tough tool steels such as AISI S7 alloy and AISI Type A6 alloy provide three to five foot-pounds transverse Charpy V-notch impact toughness, the AerMet alloy provides at least 25 foot-pounds in the same evaluation for toughness. In addition, though not a common tool steel requirement, the material offers exceptional resistance to stress corrosion cracking.

This alloy is fully air hardenable, and shows very low levels of distortion when heat treated. This very low distortion is important to shops constructing tools with complex shapes and/or critical size tolerances. The AerMet alloy tooling material is a nickel-cobalt steel strengthened by carbon, chromium and molybdenum. Its nominal analysis: 13.4 percent cobalt, 11.1 percent nickel, 3.1 percent chromium, 1.2 percent molybdenum, 0.23 percent carbon and the balance iron.

In applications as a tooling material, the new alloy has achieved remarkable results. Tooling Dynamics of York, Pennsylvania, for example, had difficulty finding a durable tooling material for punches used in high-speed, two-stage coining of bearing races from C-1018 steel strip, 0.06 inch thick. For three years the company endured costly tooling problems. Punches made from AISI D2, L6, AISI S7 and AISI H13 wore out prematurely. They wouldn't cut or provide enough wear resistance. They would shatter, crack, even explode. When the shop switched to AerMet 100 alloy, it tripled production from 60 to 180 parts per minute, increased parts per punch 20 times from 15,000 to 300,000, while running at only half the tonnage capacity of the press.

Norwalk Powdered Metals, Inc. (Norwalk, Connecticut) had serious problems when it used L6 tool steel for the punch base plate of its mid-range powder metals briquetting press. The plate was subjected to 40 tons per square inch pressure with each stroke of the press. The bearing load on a critical section of the plate was 23,000 psi. As a result, cracking and deterioration limited production to 100,00 to 150,000 parts. The company then made a baseplate of the new alloy. At last report, that plate had produced more than one million powder metal parts, or up to 10 times more than the previous tool steel.

Precision Propeller, Inc., an Indianapolis manufacturer of marine turbo propellers, went through a succession of tool steels for a mandrel-type application subjected to repeated, high-impact hammer blows. The company needed a high-strength shaft to hold propeller blades in place for straightening. Shafts made of conventional tool steels broke in a month or less, enduring 200 to 300 hammer blows a day. Shafts subsequently made of the new alloy still in use after a year of service, so far lasting at least 12 times longer than tool steel shafts.

Other case histories show that Aer-Met-for-Tooling alloy may be considered a candidate alloy for shrink rings, swaging tools and a variety of tooling applications.

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This is the part that caught my eye:

"It can be heat treated to a hardness of 53.5-55.0 Rc..."

That doesn't seem hard enough to hold an edge for very long.
 
I work in the aerospace industry. We use this stuff in some of our "balances" for wind tunnel testing (extremely expensive force/moment measurement devices; on the order of $300,000 - $400,000). It is a b*tch to machine. Not a very friendly steel to work with. It also isn't the greatest as far as corrosion resistance is concerned.

Don't believe everything you see on paper. A lot of things may look great from the recliner, but not necessarily in the shop. What might be saved in raw material cost versus INFI would MORE than be made up for in the shop due to the poor workability characteristics of this steel.

ETA - What's the maximum hardness after heat treat?
ETA2 - ^^^Ah, I see now. 55RC isn't so great... ;)
 
But will it take and hold an edge?

That's essentially what I was thinking when I read this. It sounds like an impressive steel, but how will it perform in cutlery applications? There are indications that it would do well, but I'd be interested to know if anyone has actually tried it yet.
 
That's essentially what I was thinking when I read this. It sounds like an impressive steel, but how will it perform in cutlery applications? There are indications that it would do well, but I'd be interested to know if anyone has actually tried it yet.

Doesn't look like it would do too well. Not hard enough, and not as corrosion resistant as INFI...
 
Any tougher steel will be harder to machine and work with, though are you talking about working hardened steel or molten steel? I believe most of the knives are worked when the steel is in a hot molten form, so I am not sure if that applies here.

mid 50's Rockwell is plenty hard enough, and only a few points softer than the Busse's now. The steel is a whole magnitude tougher so it doesn't matter if it is a couple rockwell points softer. Typically as hardness increases toughness decreases.Edge retention is related to strength and wear resistance. Many blades now use a softer rockwell on their steels when maximum toughness is required.

I have only heard of one knife maker who has made a knife out of AerMet 100. Supposedly, he said at mid 40's rockwell the steel held an edge very well. Said he was unable to significantly damage or break the blade no matter what he tried. For what it's worth...

I would say it is definately worth taking a look at. Some tool steels like S7 and L6 are already known to be stronger than Infi in some regards. AerMet 100 is several magnitudes stronger than even those steels. Imagine the possibilities! Remember, Infi was developed 20+ years ago. It is old technology

Oh, and about the corossion resistance, 52100 steel is very susceptible to corrosion as it is now, and Busse uses it on most of their knives. There are obviously ways to counteract that, as you well know.
 
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Any tougher steel will be harder to machine and work with, though are you talking about working hardened steel or molten steel? I believe most of the knives are worked when the steel is in a hot molten form, so I am not sure if that applies here.

mid 50's Rockwell is plenty hard enough, and only a few points softer than the Busse's now. The steel is a whole magnitude tougher so it doesn't matter if it is a couple rockwell points softer. Many blades now use a softer rockwell on their steels when maximum toughness is required.

I have only heard of one knife maker who has made a knife out of AerMet 100. Supposedly, he said at mid 40's rockwell the steel held an edge very well. Said he was unable to significantly damage or break the blade no matter what he tried. For what it's worth...

I would say it is definately worth taking a look at. Some tool steels like S7 and L6 are already known to be stronger than Infi in some regards. AerMet 100 is several magnitudes stronger than even those steels. Imagine the possibilities! Remember, Infi was developed 20+ years ago. It is old technology

Oh, and about the corossion resistance, 52100 steel is very susceptible to corrosion as it is now, and Busse uses it on most of their knives. There are obviously ways to counteract that, as you well know.

Busse does not forge blades; all Bussekin are made by stock removal in an annealed state.

AerMet is nothing new either. It's been around since at least the mid 90's.

Scrapyard has used S7 in the past (SR-77), and in fact the recent Mountainmandu from Swamp Rat was also SR-77.

52100 is not what Busse uses for most of their knives; actually they've only used it for 3 models to date (and two of those 3 were in the past month or so). However, Swamp Rat and Scrapyard have used SR-101 extensively (modified 52100).

I think you need to get all of your facts straight here before continuing to push this further. If AerMet was a good steel for knifemaking (it's not really) and not so hard to work with, I'm sure Busse would have already considered using it. The fact is that toughness is NOT everything in a blade. ;)

By the way, forgot to say it earlier, Welcome to BladeForums! :thumbup:
 
Ok, we're splitting hairs here. Busse's sister companies (which are really still Busse companies) use 52100 almost exclusively, and produce and sell a lot more models and units than the parents site. Ok, enough hair splitting.

I think it's definitely worth taking a look at. After all, if no one wanted to build a better mouse trap, Infi would never have been invented in the first place and you'd be stuck using 440c for your Busse knives. ;)

And if AerMet 100 is not good enough for you, you can always go with the ultimate, Aermet 340! which is even tougher, and can be hardened a couple points harder on the Rockwell scale.

Nominal Analysis
0.33 C, 2.25 Cr, 12.00 Ni, 1.85 Mo, 15.60 Co, Bal. Fe
AerMet 340 is a precipitation hardenable (PH) martensitic alloy that is heat treated and typically aged at about 900°F to develop the desired properties. It has a hardness of Rockwell C 56, an ultimate tensile strength of 345 ksi and a yield strength of 300 ksi. The alloy's fracture toughness is 34 ksi√in. It elongates 11% and to a 53% reduction in area

Hmmmm, looks like someone HAS made a blade out of AerMet steel! http://steeladdictionknives.com/knife-makers/jim-burke-knives/jim-burke-custom-carnivore-tactical-axe.html
 
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I'm not saying it can't be used for knives (most any steel could theoretically be used), but the fact is that it would not be a good choice of steel to use in even a semi-production setting for many reasons in the various stages of production. It also requires a double-hardening to achieve maximum hardness, another additional step which would cause cost to go up. Maybe for a custom/boutique maker, or in a setting where edge-holding is not as critical as toughness (that tactical breaching axe you linked), but overall it is a poor choice for knife making.

Vascomax, while not quite as tough and still only capable of mid 50's RC hardness, would be a less expensive and better choice (but I would still say it's not good for knives either).

Remember, INFI is a steel that is ALL about compromise. It's not the toughest, not the most stainless, and not the hardest, but it does all of these things well. Will something eventually come around that is a better overall compromise? I'd bet a lot of money that something eventually will, but I don't think it is an alloy that currently exists.

ETA - I'm just saying, I have a fair bit of personal, hands-on experience with AerMet steels through my line of work. They would not make a good choice for knives from a cost standpoint even if they were better-performing alloys. They trade higher toughness for poor machinability, lower corrosion resistance, and lower ultimate hardness. You would be sharpening you blade a lot more often too.
 
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Oh there are plenty of steels that exist, or derivatives made there of, that could be better than Infi if properly studied and experimented with.

There is also always 300M steel, which is a modified 4340 steel with added silicon allowing for use of a higher tempering temperature. It is extremely tough like the AerMets, but can be air cooled and is able to take on a higher hardness.

http://customer.cartech.com/assets/documents/datasheets/300M-HS.pdf
 
Cliff, is that you??? :rolleyes: My suggestion would be to call Jerry on Monday to see if he'd like to hire you as a consultant. You seem to know a lot more than he does about metallurgy. Can't wait to see the fruits of this collaboration! :thumbup:
 
Cliff, is that you??? :rolleyes: My suggestion would be to call Jerry on Monday to see if he'd like to hire you as a consultant. You seem to know a lot more than he does about metallurgy. Can't wait to see the fruits of this collaboration! :thumbup:

Cliff Stamp is not a very popular character here, but at least he has some credentials. He is a professor of physics at Canadian university. What credentials does our new metallurgy expert have? :rolleyes:
 
Honestly I can't take you seriously. The title of your post is trolling. If you want to be taken seriously, you shouldn't go into a forum paid for by the namesake, and say (x) is better than your proprietary product. It's like your looking more for a fight than an intelligent conversation.

You start by comparing "strength" of INFI then say corrosion resistance isn't an issue because Busse uses SR101. That is a very poor use of misdirection there. Please stay on topic if you want a conversation. Using SR101 to dismiss corrosion resistance in INFI is stupid.

You keep saying things like "better than". If you know knives, you'll know there really isn't a "better than". It's more of a "better at..." INFI is famous for being a jack of all trades. There are without a doubt, steels that are better at something than INFI. Doesn't make them "better than INFI".

Oh there are plenty of steels that exist, or derivatives made there of, that could be better than Infi if properly studied and experimented with.
"Could be"? Lots of nothing in that statement there.

What credentials does our new metallurgy expert have? :rolleyes:

Well obviously he's an AerMet salesman.
 
I'd like to know why this challenge was brought to the INFI doorstep anyway? Why not post this in the general knife discussion forum and compare it to other popular steels? Why is INFI the steel that need to be put in its place by this new super steel? I'm just curious as to why AerMet 100>INFI and not AerMet 100 > all other knife steels.
 
I work in the aerospace industry. We use this stuff in some of our "balances" for wind tunnel testing (extremely expensive force/moment measurement devices; on the order of $300,000 - $400,000). It is a b*tch to machine. Not a very friendly steel to work with. It also isn't the greatest as far as corrosion resistance is concerned.

Don't believe everything you see on paper. A lot of things may look great from the recliner, but not necessarily in the shop. What might be saved in raw material cost versus INFI would MORE than be made up for in the shop due to the poor workability characteristics of this steel.

ETA - What's the maximum hardness after heat treat?
ETA2 - ^^^Ah, I see now. 55RC isn't so great... ;)

Looks like the OP needed to do a bit more digging.....
 
Honestly I can't take you seriously. The title of your post is trolling. If you want to be taken seriously, you shouldn't go into a forum paid for by the namesake, and say (x) is better than your proprietary product. It's like your looking more for a fight than an intelligent conversation.

Couldn't have said it better myself.....
 
Troll-tastic.

I call baloney sausage on this entire thread and whomever started it. A sub-.30% carbon steel with no other hardening qualities that might get pushed to mid-50'sRc before tempering? That's a joke in the knife/tool industry. Might as well use old rail-road spikes and SuperQuench at that point, and save a whole lot of money.

Frankly, it's an insult to even post that sort of claim. Not only an insult to knifemakers, but to the people who developed those alloys for very specific reasons. (which I guarantee, did not involve knives or any other cutting implements.)

The Charpy values quoted in the OP for S7 and A6 are so incredibly far off the mark, they're barely worth mentioning. Except for the fact that they're, well, wrong.
Values of 30 pounds are quoted as being "exceptional"? Nonsense. Even D2 can exceed that that level of strengthin Charpy C or V tests, at 58Rc or higher. Again, I call BALONEY SAUSAGE.

Based on the chart shown, I'm fairly confident those alloys would be highly suitable for demanding structural purposes. Which I'm sure is exactly what they're designed to do. There's simply no other reason to make an alloy with that kind of chemistry.

For knife blades? To "beat" INFI or other tool steels like CPM-3V or Elmax or A-series or S-series alloys in cutting/chopping applications? Gimme a break. :rolleyes:
 
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