The strength of laminating G10?

xtestifyx

xtestifyx

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Feb 4, 2010
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Hello knowledgeable makers and smiths

I have never laminated G10 together before, and I'm questioning whether it would hold up at all

Here is my scenario: I have two pieces of 1/8" BlackRed G10. I want to laminate them to make a scale for the non locking side of a Folder. What are my best choices of doing so?

Would this work? Sand the contact area, Epoxy and Vise clamp them together

Thank you everyone. Appreciate your help :thumbup:

Adrian
 
Use a good quality epoxy, and that should work fine.

Sand with 100 grit paper to make sure there is a rough surface, and only clamp firm enough to hold together. You don't want to force out all the epoxy.
 
I have just bought a piece of red G10 it had been glued up to make it 1/4" thick but you could see the join even after it was polished, I decided to try and split it. It was dead easy just a little tap on a knife blade and it fell apart .

Richard
 
If there is a mechanical fastener, I think it'll be fine with just epoxying. If you're going to try to keep it from showing a gap, then you'll want to find an epoxy whose spec allows for a very thin joint. If I were doing this, I'd be tempted to try Gorilla glue instead, as you can just squeeze the crap out of it.

Every one that I've done has been pinned, so I've never had a problem with separation. For what it's worth, I've found that using G10 for one whole side of a liner lock or frame lock will leave some flex in a larger knife. This could cause you some problems with your laminate if you're not backing the scale with a Ti liner.
 
bladsmth said:
Use a good quality epoxy, and that should work fine.



Sand with 100 grit paper to make sure there is a rough surface, and only clamp firm enough to hold together. You don't want to force out all the epoxy.
As an added degree of disguise....tint the epoxy to match the joint color.
Click to expand...

I have used some Krazy glue before to double up some Vulcanized liners; it did not leave any gaps and it actually blends. Now I'm wondering how well something like USAknifemaker's "Gap Filling" or "Thin and fast curing" works. From just the description, Gap filling takes the cake

Good call on the tinting, that's a very well thought out detail
Thanks Stacy

Tinbasher said:
I have just bought a piece of red G10 it had been glued up to make it 1/4" thick but you could see the join even after it was polished, I decided to try and split it. It was dead easy just a little tap on a knife blade and it fell apart .

Richard
Click to expand...

Very interesting, I am definitely going to experiment a little. Thank you Richard

AcridSaint said:
If there is a mechanical fastener, I think it'll be fine with just epoxying. If you're going to try to keep it from showing a gap, then you'll want to find an epoxy whose spec allows for a very thin joint. If I were doing this, I'd be tempted to try Gorilla glue instead, as you can just squeeze the crap out of it.

Every one that I've done has been pinned, so I've never had a problem with separation. For what it's worth, I've found that using G10 for one whole side of a liner lock or frame lock will leave some flex in a larger knife. This could cause you some problems with your laminate if you're not backing the scale with a Ti liner.
Click to expand...

I know from my experience that Barry H's scales flex a little since they were so thin. I have made one so far and there's none whatsoever, mainly because the side was kept thicker than the original titanium side

I will keep that in mind though, appreciate it
 
I have been experimenting with laminating sheets of G10 and found that sanding the wet epoxy into the surfaces with sharp 60 grit makes the strongest bond. The technique is/was sometimes used with wood finishes, I decided to give it a try on a whim and found that it makes stronger laminates, presumably by wetting out the sanding scratches as they are formed. It also helps hide the joint by allowing some of the removed material to tint the epoxy.
 
I use G-10 liners with my handles and also sometimes layer thinner G-10 to make scales. I've been using West Systems G-Flex epoxy lately and it seems to work really well for this type of glue up.

Another thing that I always do when gluing up G-10 sheets is drill some shallow dimples in the side to be glued with a 1/4" bit just shallow enough to make nice little pools of epoxy to increase the bond, never deep enough to become exposed during handle shaping. So far, this practice combined with snug fitting tube stock has worked really well. I really like the look of laminated handles. Andy at Fiddleback does some great looking laminate work on his.
 
During the "Glue Wars" thread the strongest of all bonds was achieved by sandblasting both surfaces first. Clean Really well and use your glue of choice. The strongest I have ever personally found is from K&G knifemakers supply here in AZ.
Slow cure 24hrs but actually finishes the bonding process in about a week.
Most epoxies actually "Cure" much slower than stated so give it a few days then whack it around. Chances are it will hold together.
 
I did quite a bit of experimenting with both K&G's epoxy and West Systems G-Flex, using both sanded and sandblasted surfaces. My findings were that the usual methods work fine if the layers of G10 are fairly rigid. If the top layer is thin enough to be flexible, however, it easy to break the joint open at the edge and the thin top laminate peels off with little resistance once the split is started. The thin flexible material allows you to break the joint a little at a time, making it weaker in use than with thicker, more rigid sheets. Sanding the epoxy in after it is applied seems to have made a substantial difference for me there.
 
I spoke to Tracy @ USA Knife Maker Supply today

He was very helpful in that he gave me his experience and some recommendations

Cyanoacrylate has good tensile strength(Glue two board together and pull it apart deal) but it lacks toughness, dropping a knife with Cyanoacrylate laminated handles will likely tear that apart.

Conventional Epoxy will work but I was told to avoid a certain type of 5Minute epoxy.

Tracy highly recommends Loctite Speedbonder 324 and told me he has had great luck using that. It is a 2 part mix and both parties are sold separately. Loctite Depend 330 will also work well for this purpose, but the 324 is highly recommended
 
Hi - just as an FYI, Tracy ran the glue wars tests years back and found the 324 to win out on pretty much all of the tests he did. It's pretty well known that he favors the glue. If you go this route, I would use Justin's prep method, I think it will serve you well.

I'm still of the opinion that poly glues are particularly well-suited for your purpose as they will provide you with the additional flex needed since the G10 won't be backed by a rigid tang.
 
I started using gorilla type super glue after I got a drop on some micarta and accidentally glued it to another piece. When I pulled them apart I tore the top layer of micarta off and the glue held.
 
The speedbonder requires a little practice to learn to use, and cleanup has to be done fairly quickly, but not immediately. If you are making laminated scales, don't worry too much about it, but do scrape all the excess off after curing with a razor, it will gum up your belts. I use 325, but that's me.

Any decent slow cure CA will work fine, I use a flat sheet of 1/4 inch steel and a kettlebell (16kg weight) instead of clamps after the two scales are all put together.

the USA knifemaker slow cure epoxy works well, too, I use that on a lot of stuff and it's always held up well.

rubberized CA will shift and move over time.

I've used gorilla glue on wood/vulcanized spacers/micarta, but I'm not sure on G10 that it will be quite as strong. I'm not *positive* about this, but it is designed for materials with some degree of porosity, used moist since it is a water curing adhesive.
 
I agree with Hankins comment about blasting the objects to be bonded. After reading the Glue Wars I have blasted both tang and scales on every knife.

I use liners of some type on every knife. Last weekend I had a pair of wood scales crack on me; had to scrap them. After reading the OP a week and half ago I decided this would be a good time to really test the adhesion (gorilla super glue)between blasted G10 and blasted stabilized redwood. throwing them on the ground, hitting the edge with a hammer (try to pop them apart), and flex testing caused the wood chip and crack more but the actual bond between wood/G10 will not come apart. Just my $.02.

David Sharp
Sharpwerks
 
Thank you for all your input guys :thumbup:

Great info to be shared and I will try the Gorilla glue, with the 324 as the ultimatum, mostly due to the price

THANK YOU!
 
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