The untimely death of the 357 Sig round

not2sharp

not2sharp

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With Covid and the ever present global ammo shortage it can be hard to notice that the 357 Sig loading has all but disappeared. Originally designed to provide 357 magnum performance from an auto-loading pistol, the round had some success but never enough to bring the price of factory Ammo in line with its competitor 9mm. It was a necked down 40 S&W, firing a 9mm projectile, with a stronger powder charge.

Some still swear by it, although ballistic has shown that hotter 9mm rounds can now deliver the same performance with less recoil, flash, costs, while taking advantage of an improved magazine capacity. The Air Marshall service which had adopted the 357 sig have now switched back to 9mm. The 9mm is also ending the 40 caliber S&W round which spawned the 357 Sig and aimed to usurp it.

I still wonder if 357 Sig got a bum deal. The firearms produced for it were almost entirely intended for law enforcement and concealed carry. Which mostly means a 4-5” barrel length. But this seems like an ideal round for the now popular Pistol Caliber Carbine configuration. I don’t know of many carbines that were made in this caliber and I am left thinking that the round would have been excellent out of an 8-10” barrel. The extra charge which was often wasted as excess recoil, noise and flash might really improve the performance when matched with the right barrel length.

Has anyone tried the 357 Sig out of a longer barrel?

n2s
 
Sorry N2S, I can't address your question due to ignorance, however I was wondering if you could expand on the "ended the .40 s&w" comment?
 
The death isn’t “untimely”. It’s a necked down 10mm that Is double the cost of 9mm.

Rather than listen to stories of people saying why I should carry 357sig, I’ll ask in return “why would I carry it over 9mm +p+?” The wound cavities are near identical. Sure, the 357sig looks better on paper.. but I’ll take the mag capacity and reduced recoil any day.

In the end, the 357sig is an answer to a question nobody asked. Just another fad round that never caught on. I’d rather see companies attempt to make 9mm better, instead of inventing new ammunition, that requires new firearms, and my ability to purchase depends on market popularity.
 
not2sharp said:
The improvements in the 9mm have caused a major retreat from the use of both 357Sig and 40 S&W.

n2s
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Ahh gotcha. I've got myself down to two pistol calibers one of them being .40 S&W so I was concerned.
 
I was really waiting to see a PCC configured for 357 Sig, and was sure there would be several.

Occasion #588 where I'm completely incorrect in my prediction. Not even SIGARMS produced one.

I agree that a 10 or 11 inch barreled carbine configuration could really boost terminal performance, and make the whole magazine capacity issue irrelevant.

Oh well. Anybody want to enter my new pool on when the last box of 30 Super Carry rolls off the production line?
 
I used to have a 229 and it was a nice piece. I talked to a guy that owned an auto part junk yard in the country that owned a 357 sig. He said the penetration was better than the 45, 9mm and a handful of other calibers he said he tried. He said he would shoot though different parts of old cars, doors and such and the sig would penetrate the best, right through so that's what he carried. I would imagine a longer barrel would speed up things so a different bullet design would most likely be needed to hold together on hard targets.
 
not2sharp said:
The improvements in the 9mm have caused a major retreat from the use of both 357Sig and 40 S&W.

n2s
Click to expand...
Several Federal LE agencies have transitioned from .40 cal to 9mm in the recent past. There are 2 local agencies in my area that have also switched to 9mm. The trend seems to be going that way.
Ammo was short for a while, but I get several emails every week with plenty of 9mm available. Last couple of emails have had .40 and .45 in there also. Usually about $5-8 more expensive per box of 50.
 
I think the .357 Sig was like the .40S&W, a solution in search of a non-existent or minimal problem.

You can get equal or better external and terminal ballistics from 9x23mm, .38 Super, and other 23mm long 9mm calibers with less felt recoil if you really want to do that.
 
When I bought my first modern gun, (everything I had was inherited and only revolvers) .40 S&W was the big deal. This was 2008 I believe. Now, I rarely see anything at the LGS in .40, and no one wants to buy a used .40 either.

FBI originally went 10mm, but apparently it was too much so they had the .40 created, bigger hole, a bit more kick than 9mm but less so than 10mm. It was a compromise. My carry gun is a Sig P365 SAS XL frankengun. I carry Underwood Extreme Defender 90 gr +p 9mm. I've stated my concern that in a CC defense situation I may not have time to get my support hand in place, and 9mm is much easier to fire one handed.

I remember back in 2009-10 when .40 defensive ammo was over $2 per bullet, going with something niche like .357sig. I feel the same way about the .30 super carry, .327 federal magnum, etc.
 
I'm going to guess that it will hold on in the few countries where there isn't cheap 9mm, restrictions on pistol calibers above .38, and subcompacts are very uncommon. If the ammo is the same price anyway, then it might have some advantages, but inside the US, probably not.
 
I've never tried .357 SIG, how do you all think it compares to 7.62x25 Tokarev? I love the Tok round, and it is still made and available online. Great penetration and flat shooting.
 
If you're interested in a pistol caliber carbine/pdw with better performance than 9mm, there are10mm carbines are offered by a number of manufacturers and fairly available - what would .357 Sig do in a carbine that 10mm doesn't?
 
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Great thread and posts. Was wondering if this round would make it. Been out for a while now but won't be the first to not catch the way it should have. Seems the 9MM keeps jumping back no matter what is thrown against it. True better bullets have made the 9 a favorite. Know my P.D. was using this round in their Sigs but that will change I am sure. thanks for this interesting topic.
 
Paratrooper06 said:
The death isn’t “untimely”. It’s a necked down 10mm that Is double the cost of 9mm.

Rather than listen to stories of people saying why I should carry 357sig, I’ll ask in return “why would I carry it over 9mm +p+?” The wound cavities are near identical. Sure, the 357sig looks better on paper.. but I’ll take the mag capacity and reduced recoil any day.

In the end, the 357sig is an answer to a question nobody asked. Just another fad round that never caught on. I’d rather see companies attempt to make 9mm better, instead of inventing new ammunition, that requires new firearms, and my ability to purchase depends on market popularity.
Click to expand...
I own a real .357 - no problem reloading those…..
 
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