Any interest in trading a 5160 woodsman for my 420 hc woodsman and a free lunch? Is your email the kwackster one? I work once / week in your area.
Thanks TOOJ!
5160 Steel supply issues and not design or steel flaw for the design was the reason.
Well guess it was a hard call to make I bet.
Still a large hunk of full tanged 420 HC properly done treatment does sound interesting.
Thanks for the info TOOJ and Mr. Maragni's work and the others at OKC for all the blood, sweat, and tears (I bet that decision caused some) you all put in the products you make.
The handled one called
Roguer.
(May the Doughnuts be with you!)
My copy of the 420hc arrived today. The 5160 version is on the left, 420hc version on the right.
Same sheath, shape, and handle scales.
420hc is a little shorter in length. Edge grind not symmetrical but sharp enough out of the box.
Some tooling marks visible but overall fit and finish is acceptable for the price point. Both versions have some variation in grinds and scales.
I much prefer the 5160 steel and was hoping this was old stock when I ordered the second one.
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All,
I'll jump in and try to give everyone the reasoning behind the switch over.
First of all; we are always trying to improve efficiencies while still keeping the quality as high as we can. We also try to match the quality level to the appropriate price level.
A lot of things go into our decisions on material and costing and we always try to maximize both sides to give as great as performance as possible but with the best possible value.
Dan's Bushcraft designs are superb and the use of 5160 as the steel was , IMHO, a good move. However, 5160 is difficult to procure in our buying quantities and while it is not difficult to process, it is a departure from the way we process our other steels. Also it rusts like a viral epidemic. A lot of time is (was) spent to keep these parts rust free...with limited success. We spend(t) a lot of rework time in refinishing knife blades.
Our 420 HC steel is stainless (much less rusting) and US sourced. It has sufficient carbon in the formula to give good and proper hardness for the knife. It is not 5160...(I know; I commiserate along with you all)
The numbers that we sold (of the 5160 knives) required that we either discontinue the model or try to jump start it with a material and cost change. We are trying the later as opposed to dropping it.
Many times our choices and decisions are crap shoots based on the best knowledge we have at the time. We are trying to jump start the product to see if we can keep it going. Time will tell if we are successful.
Hope this helps.
Best Regards,
Paul Tsujimoto
V.P. of engineering
Ontario Knife Company
According to Tooj it’s going to be run soft(48-52)
Toooj posted some info about the 420hc hardness capabilities, (in the mid to high 50's range), but then mentioned that the more ideal hardness range for such things as machetes in that steel, is lower, (giving the blede less edge retention, but more toughness against breakage).Do you have a link to the post where Toooj said this ?
Hi Tooj,
Can you tell me what kind of 420SS is being used in the new bushcraft woodsman? Is it 420HC, 420J2, or something else? In other words, what is the carbon content?
Thanks, Dave
Yonose,
The Stainless in the Bushcraft machete is 420HC which has 0.31% carbon. That % can give is hardnesses up to HRc 55-57. The machete hardness, of course, is lower at 48-52HRc.
Hope this helps.
PocketKnifeJimmy
I remember reading that but I'm starting to wonder is there's some confusion going on between the Bushcraft Woodsman and the Bushcraft Machete specs.
Although my speculation, (read as guess), was not the entire reason for the steel change, it does seem to have been a part of it.
I had stated the following in an earlier post on this thread...
"Makes me think they are not doing so well in it's sales, and are looking to possibly get some new interest from those that prefer the stain resistance of stainless steel. Just speculation on my part, but it does seem odd to change the steel if it was doing well selling as a 5160 carbon. I mean, sure, offer it in stainless AND carbon, but to drop it in carbon steel form, it makes me wonder if it was simply not doing well and they are trying to keep it alive in some way."
Toooj wrote:
"The numbers that we sold (of the 5160 knives) required that we either discontinue the model or try to jump start it with a material and cost change. We are trying the later as opposed to dropping it.
Many times our choices and decisions are crap shoots based on the best knowledge we have at the time. We are trying to jump start the product to see if we can keep it going."
Also, it seems that if they had been flying off their shelves, it could have helped them a little in dealing with the corrosion situation... Everything would have moved through faster, (the material arriving, it being processed and made into the final product, and then the product being shipped out). A quick turn around could have maybe helped a bit in their corrosion problems.
Toooj does a great job of setting things straight, and it's awesome that this forum exists on the subject of Ontario Knife products
All,
I'll jump in and try to give everyone the reasoning behind the switch over.
First of all; we are always trying to improve efficiencies while still keeping the quality as high as we can. We also try to match the quality level to the appropriate price level.
A lot of things go into our decisions on material and costing and we always try to maximize both sides to give as great as performance as possible but with the best possible value.
Dan's Bushcraft designs are superb and the use of 5160 as the steel was , IMHO, a good move. However, 5160 is difficult to procure in our buying quantities and while it is not difficult to process, it is a departure from the way we process our other steels. Also it rusts like a viral epidemic. A lot of time is (was) spent to keep these parts rust free...with limited success. We spend(t) a lot of rework time in refinishing knife blades.
Our 420 HC steel is stainless (much less rusting) and US sourced. It has sufficient carbon in the formula to give good and proper hardness for the knife. It is not 5160...(I know; I commiserate along with you all)
The numbers that we sold (of the 5160 knives) required that we either discontinue the model or try to jump start it with a material and cost change. We are trying the later as opposed to dropping it.
Many times our choices and decisions are crap shoots based on the best knowledge we have at the time. We are trying to jump start the product to see if we can keep it going. Time will tell if we are successful.
Hope this helps.
Best Regards,
Paul Tsujimoto
V.P. of engineering
Ontario Knife Company
@Toooj The RTAK II and RD6 have been recently made with 5160, is OKC planning switching over to 420 on them as well?