Thoughts on axes, machetes, and saws

mercop

mercop

Joined
Mar 26, 2002
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For bushcraft, you are pretty much left with three cutting options beyond
your knife: the axe, machete, and saw. The idea of this article will be to
discuss the pros and cons for all of them, including some you may not have
taken into consideration.

Selection- a tool that in the best of circumstances will be used for cutting
wood for a fire you want, instead of one you need. This, along with shelter
building, are the most likely tasks.

Carry- The first thing we need to look at is weight. More weight translates
to more calories burned just to carry. Let’s see how they add up. I will use
common examples-

Wetterlings 19 in axe- 1.5 lbs
USGI Ontario 18 inch machete- unable to find weight on line, approx 2 lbs
Gerber Sportsmans Saw- 3.4 oz

Use- Again we focus on cost vs benefit, with calories as the currency.
Let’s take a look at the mechanism and physics behind using the different
tools.

Axe- The axe relies on centrifugal force created buy using the human arm
with the axe attached, as a pendulum, to deliver a concentration of force on
a small surface area (sharpened edge) to chop wood. The fuller and more
relaxed the motion of the arm, the more economical the use. Any injury
limiting the arm, or the wearing of restrictive clothing, will greatly decrease
efficiency. Because the entire body is at least somewhat involved with
using the axe, it can burn lots of calories. Because of the cutting surfaces
small area, extreme concentration is needed to place cuts. Any eye injury
will severely limit effectiveness.

Machete- Using the same basic premise as the the axe, the machete
is swung, using the entire arm to concentrate the edge of the blade on
the target. Again, effective use of the machete is compromised by any
injury to the arm, or the wearing of heavy clothes. Because of the larger
cutting surface, a bit less concentration is required. An eye injury will limit
effectiveness.

Saw- The saw is used by first establishing contact on what you want to cut,
and then sawing back and forth at a variable pace. The saw can be used
in extremely tight confines such as a shelter. Use can largely be done
relatively close to the body, without extending the arms forward, elbows
down to the side, this means that the saw can be effectively used even
when movement is limited by injury or clothing. Because of the proximity of
work to the body, and being in constant contact with cutting media, use is
still possible with an eye injury. Because of control and contact, precision
cuts are possible with the saw even in the hands of a weaker, less trained
person.

With the use of any tool, there is also a chance of injury. Again the
mechanism of use of the tool defines the type of injury. Using the machete
or axe involves a substantial risk of missing, or skipping/bouncing off
the media. Since the tool is essentially being swung back at your body,
there is a substantial risk of injury. This can result in devastating injuries
from impact injuries, to penetrating injures, to a combination of both.
The “wedge” design of the blades will split tissue and bone, presenting a
unique, and hard to treat wound. It is also possible to cause traumatic
amputation to the weak hand which is commonly used to hold/stabilize
media.

The saw, because of size, control during use, and constant contact with the
media, severely diminishes the chance of injury. An injury that does occur
will be a ripping one, no wider than the spine of the saw. These types of
wounds, are familiar, and seldom life threatening.

All three tools have their place, that said, when it comes to ease of carry,
weight, ease and safety of use. The saw wins hands down.
 
Excellent post I agree a hundred percent and have several different small and medium saws. However you left out of your math the fun involved in a hatchet or axe :-). One of my favorite tools are the ultimate survival pocket chainsaws the ones made of real chainsaw chain for cutting ability and portability especially if you make handles in the field. Just my 2 cents
 
Excellent post!

here is my take though.....in the woods, how ya gonna sharpen saw? or what happens if a saw blade binds and breaks?.......in this situ an axe reigns superior, as one can use it without a handle , or make a new handle , and sharpen it easily on a smooth stone.....

I do agree that 99% of the time a saw rules.....less effort, less chance of injury when cold or tired etc
 
Excellent risk analysis of three similar tools, that would perhaps be conclusive for a bunch of tenderfoots.
If you did a risk analysis of knives, you could recomend shears and pruners as signficantly safer

You have not taken into account:
What knife is being carried, and its limitations
The skill of the user
The specific performance of the different tools and their limitations.
When and where these tools will be used

If I want to build a shelter and have to down 2" to 3" standing wood, then limb it.
If I want to split wood for a fire, even small wood.
Can I do this with a Gerber Sportsmans Saw?
Yes, but not easily.

So let me carry a bigger heavier camp knife that I can chop and baton with.
Then the 3.4 oz for the saw gets spent on a bigger knife.
And the inherent dangers of a camp knife is the same as an axe.

So, the answer is 'it depends on who is using what and where'
Which means sometimes absolutely a folding saw, and sometimes absolutely not; even if the saw is 'inherently' safer
 
Bushman5 said:
Excellent post!

here is my take though.....in the woods, how ya gonna sharpen saw? or what happens if a saw blade binds and breaks?.......in this situ an axe reigns superior, as one can use it without a handle , or make a new handle , and sharpen it easily on a smooth stone.....

I do agree that 99% of the time a saw rules.....less effort, less chance of injury when cold or tired etc
Click to expand...

Yep, that was my thinking, but I still think it kind of works into a risk vs benefit kind of situation.

In addition to this, if you're out there with no knife, you're probably going to want an axe or a machete more than a saw. I mean, just imagine your knife broke, or you lost it, and then you're left with a saw. You'll probably wind up grinding the teeth off the saw to make a knife.

Overall though, I do think that the saw is the most optimal tool for the job in terms of operation, but when you consider maintenance there's just a lot that can go wrong with it.

Not to mention that I don't think all saw injuries are insignificant. I suppose it comes down to the person using it, and how they're going to use it... However, I've seen people in a machine shop using a hacksaw get to anxious to get through a piece of metal, start speeding up,and they ripped through a tendon. Imagine if that happened in a survival situation; I think that would be quite a severe and debilitating injury.
 
When it came time to apply industrial revolution technology to the cutting of wood, which design was adapted? The axe? No, no mechanized axes out there. The machete? No, no mechanized machetes. The saw? Yes, the saw.

The saw is to a chopper what a computer is to an abacus. Ok, maybe that's an extreme comparison, but I think you all get the idea.
 
For reference, the 18" Ontario machete is 1lb. 7oz. There is also a difference between it and the axe in that it is used one-handed easier. Also the axe and machete will split wood a lot faster and easier than the saw, which could be life-saving in wet conditions. I recommend carrying BOTH an axe/machete AND a saw. Also it's a bit easier to critically damage a saw.
 
I carry a GB mini, Bahco Laplander and a Ultimate survival chain saw. The latter is really more of a backup. But with those, I can tackle pretty much anything. Together they probably weigh less than a machete and take up very little space.

...and of course a small fixed blade.
 
If I want to build a shelter and have to down 2" to 3" standing wood, then limb it.
If I want to split wood for a fire, even small wood.
Can I do this with a Gerber Sportsmans Saw?
Yes, but not easily.
Click to expand...

The saw discussed in the original post, the Gerber sportsman's saw, comfortably maxes out at around 3" wood. I've used it to fell a 7" Birch, but 3" is a comfortable size wood to cut with this saw. As for splitting wood with a saw, it's not too difficult. With smaller sticks, often I break them slowly so that they also split along their length, and I use my fingers to control the split down to the end of the stick. This gives me good quality kindling without any cutting tools. In fact, I employed this trick with good success in the desert the other day to get a small fire going when all I had was a small pen knife because I was flying. Granted, I was using fairly small wood and it wasn't water logged because of where I was, but even here in New England I do it frequently enough.

[youtube]LcRYSFqjLgY[/youtube]

A saw can also be used easily in the weak hand, whereas using an axe or machete in the weak hand is very difficult unless practiced.
 
Nice post mercop:thumbup:

My first choice on limited time will be a SAW, but on long term situation I go for small AX or HAWK.

Saw it will give me easy cut ,straight cut,with a minimum lost of calories ok.
How long will take the saw before losing cutting ability 2,4,6 months and after that how you will fix the saw teeth?

Small Ax or Hawk, you need muscle and a good quantity of calories to do any job with.
Definitively it will not cut straight & definitively is more slow cutting than any saw!
Maintenance of the ax, hawk is minimal and almost non-existent.
OK,,,, let's talking about the life, durability?
The so-called experts the all agree that life of (ax or hawk) is approximately 250 to 400 years!:eek:

Conclusion I carry both:D

5$ cheap saw,but works well
IMG_4844.jpg


Expensive saw, works even better
IMG_2974.jpg


My little baby
IMG_4681.jpg
 
I had some old injuries using cheap folding saws. Not funny paddling 3 days back while trying to super glue the finger every few hours.

I grew up using the axe and will continue to do so since I can do what I need quickly and effectively.
 
I have a Sears Craftsman folding utility saw that looks suspiciously like that Tajima in the pic above. I love them. I'm a carpenter and always have one in my tool bags at work and a day doesn't go by that I don't use it. I have one in my snowmobile, one in every vehicle and always have one in my pack for camping or hunting. It costs $20 and the blades last surprisingly long. Just don't try to cut nails or a lot of styrofoam. The great thing is that when the blade does get bad I take it to Sears and get a new one.

I still would not think of trying to rely on one tool only in a camping or survival situation. So depending on situation I also carry a small hatchet, axe, or larger blade knife, such as a Busse BWM, or Scrap Yard Dogfather.

Out of curiosity how well do those chain saw survival saws work and hold up with use.
I've thought about getting one but not sure if they actually work. My chain saws all have a big bar and motor behind it.
 
Definitely good points that everyone should consider.

In my own experience...

I view saws as highly specialized tools that are efficient/convenient at their intended task and should be carried whenever you can afford to... you know, like toilet paper.:thumbup::p

I joke.... but truly feel a large knife coupled with a modestly sized saw is a damn good combination.

Terrific post, brother!

Rick
 
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I like saws. Just not much into the folding pruning type which only work on small wood.

If I'm taking a saw I take either a pocket chainsaw and work it up into a frame saw in the field. Or I go all out and take a bow saw (one of the big ones) tied to the outside of my pack, with a couple blades taped up inside fro spares..

The weight is negligible, but I think it is one of the few pwices of my gear I haven't already weighed.
 
I agree with most of what you said however what's economical in use as far as calories are concerned has to do with what needs to be accomplished. There are times when an axe uses a lot less calories than a saw. Limbing is one thing I can think of. Also, an axe relies on momentum to do it's work. If you're using it properly. I see a lot of guys trying to power through material using the haft as a lever which IMO is bad form and uses significantly more calories. Centrifugal force points along the haft, not perpendicular to it.
 
Some good points in your post and I can appreciate the emphasis on "safety", a very worthy consideration for all.

For bushcraft, you are pretty much left with three cutting options beyond
your knife: the axe, machete, and saw.
Click to expand...

I suppose this could go under "knife", but there are a bunch of us bush beaters that also include a "hook" knife in the kit. Really a host of things that a straight blade isn't optimized for that a hook knife does SO much better.

The axe relies on centrifugal force created buy using the human arm
with the axe attached, as a pendulum, to deliver a concentration of force on
a small surface area (sharpened edge) to chop wood.
Click to expand...

I like to think of the axe in terms of 'kinetic energy', EK=(1/2) MV2. Its weight or mass, even without centrifigal force applied, still makes it highly efficient for a number of chores (choke up positions). The axe also makes a fair wedge when used with a cudgel and, a passable slicing tool when all else fails.

All three tools have their place, that said, when it comes to ease of carry,
weight, ease and safety of use. The saw wins hands down.
Click to expand...

I can agree with this, especially after watching a number of people in the woods with their tools lately. However, for the experienced woodsmen in my part of the world, with its environment, the axe will be the most depended upon of the three. I loathe the "only one choice" or "what if" scenarios and choose to carry "tools for the job" whenever possible.
 
Saw, big knife and small knife. For my area - PA/WV/OH - you almost cannot beat that combo. A good bow saw will take down 6-8" trees like a laser beam. My great uncle ran a Xmas tree farm for decades. When you are cutting down 15-20 trees a day, you don't ever take an axe.

Even a smaller 21" triangle bow saw will cut wood so much faster than even a 2.5# axe.

You get into the south and the machete rules all.

The saw is also a great tool for making stop cuts / joints / etc.
 
paperairplane said:
Saw, big knife and small knife. For my area - PA/WV/OH - you almost cannot beat that combo. A good bow saw will take down 6-8" trees like a laser beam. My great uncle ran a Xmas tree farm for decades. When you are cutting down 15-20 trees a day, you don't ever take an axe.

Even a smaller 21" triangle bow saw will cut wood so much faster than even a 2.5# axe.

You get into the south and the machete rules all.

The saw is also a great tool for making stop cuts / joints / etc.
Click to expand...

This post brings up a good point. I think a lot of the arguments over what's best has more to do with the person using the tool than the tool itself. I don't go after any tree or limb larger than my forearm let alone an 8" diameter one. Also, I can't remember who it was but there was a great comment by a guy here and that was, "Cutting across grain is for suckers." Sure there are times when it needs to be done but if you limit how much cross grain cutting you do, then the saw becomes almost obsolete.
 
Good analysis
kind of a side point my kids taught me
small axe / hatchet and a machete can be real close in weght , but the longer blade of the machete means the kids miss far less , and they can put more slice into their cuts so for pretty much the same effort they cut more
of course this doesnt apply to every situation and circumstance , just thought Id throw it in there tho
 
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