Thoughts on Cardboard Cutting as a Test

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Dec 5, 2000
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Tonight at work I was just cutting up some carboard with my newest knife, and got to thinking about how it is as a true test of a knife.

I haven't really seen any knife that would slice cardboard easier than a cheap box cutter. Lets face it, a box cutter has a super thin blade that has to push next to no material out of its way to make a cut. Even a blade made of thinner stock has a much more wedge shape to it. Thus cutting into the carboard forces the carboard to pinch in around the edge, making it more difficult. The box cutter is exposing the same edge thickness, or close to it anyway, thorughout the material making it easier to slice thorugh. So even the cheapest of box cutters, with a new blade, will have an edge over almost any knife here.

Cardboard is rather abrasive on an edge, and will dull it pretty quickly. I don't care what the steel is or how well it is heat treated cardboard will dull an edge fairly quickly. The knife I happened to be using was a small custom fixed blade made of 52100 from a maker on the forums. Now after enough cuts the edge started dragging just a bit, and not cutting as cleanly. The same thing happens when I use a RRF from Combat Elite, that has an S30V blade. It might take a bit longer to get dulled to that point, but it still will pretty quickly. This is to be expected though, I mean no knife will stay sharp forever it is just not possible. So I guess you could say that cutting up cardboard is useful for comparing edge holding ability.

So now we have a knife with an edge that has been dulled rather quickly, what is the first thing that we do? We go to bring that edge back to our own standard of sharpness, whatever that may be. So maybe cardboard cutting is useful here, to judge how easy it is to bring an edge back to sharp. I guess that might be a fair statement, but there are many other ways to test this too.

One thing that I never really understood here is the constant use of cardoard cuts as a promotional tool in the Cold Steel DVD'd. I mean any knife will continue to cut through cardboard without much trouble, even if the edge has become sull, if the rest of the geometry is right. Honestly if the knife is made of fairly thin stock, and ground say to a full flat grind, like say a Spyderco Millie, then it will continue to cut way past the point of being dulled to the point where I would want to sharpen it. Try taking that knife that has made 100 or whatever number of cuts in cardboard and cut a tomato, or shave or whatever other more demanding task. I bet you will soon see that what seemes sharp isn't sharp at all but just has a profile that allows it to keep on "cutting". Just think of what you would find in just about any kitchen. My parents kitchen knives are a great example of this, I couldn't cut myself with those if I tried, yet they will still "cut" most food stuff needed.

Ok, I guess I am rambling on now. Anyway just some random thoughts I had while enjoying my new knife, which BTW performed great so I am not complaining about that at all. Anyone else have any thoughts/feelings on this subject?
 
The real test, of course, is how well the knife cuts Comm-Bloc Body Armor and airplane skins. But, since most of us don't have regular opportunities to conduct those tests, we'll just have to settle for cardboard.

:D
 
Gollnick said:
The real test, of course, is how well the knife cuts Comm-Bloc Body Armor and airplane skins. But, since most of us don't have regular opportunities to conduct those tests, we'll just have to settle for cardboard.

:D

LOL, real funny.
 
Cutting cardboard is a way to test wear rate. The cardboard (and paper in general) has some clay in it which gives it a mild abrasive characteristic. If you look at Cliff Stamp's reviews he will use cardboard to induce edge wear then use thread cutting force or cord slicing to measure the remaining sharpness. The effort to cut the cardboard is mostly a function of geometry if you are cutting through the middle of a piece of cardboard. If you don't want to worry about geometry you take your slices from near a free edge of the cardboard so that the blade won't get pinched in the cut.
 
I will weigh in on this subject from the "Cardboard's" point of View. ;)

Most everyone has their own vision of "Cardboard". The correct term used in the paperboard industry for paper that has at least two (and as many as six) Liners each seperated by a varying size of wavy interior Medium(s) is called Corrugated. This is what almost all shipping Boxes or Containers are made of, brown Corrugated paper - aka Cardboard.

However, there are other box materials that get called Cardboard that do not have Liners seperated by Mediums, it is one thickness of combined layers of paper tightly pressed together. This type of material is called by names such as "Fibreboard", "Pressboard" or "slickboard" - This material is usually used in items that require POPs (Point of Purchase Displays) or shelf presentation ie. Cereal Boxes, Laundry Detergent Boxes, Cig Cartons, etc.


Let's look at some other Terms of Corrugated/Cardboard that are used within the paper industry;

Liner - An exterior grade of Paper (usually Brown - Kraft, or White - Kla-White). This paper can be any number of Weights.

Weight - How much material was used to make approx 1,000 square feet. The weight can be semi-accurately determined by gauging the paper's final thickness using a mircrometer. The thicker the liner the Heavier the Weight (usually).

Medium - The wavy interior of the combined paper. This paper can also be of varying Weights. The "Waves" are called Flutes. There are several Medium gauges, the most common being "C" Flute, this one is about the size of a number 2 pencil. A smaller one is "B" flute, a Larger one is "A" flute. You can combine these flutes into just about any combination to make "Doublewall" (which is 1 Liner, a Medium, another Liner, a second Medium and 1 more Liner) or "Triplewall" or ....well... you get the idea.

Starch - All the Liners and Mediums are held together with an adhesive with a base of Corn Starch. This adhesive may be thick or thin, this will vary with each run of material and will effect the overall quality of the paper.

On the bottom of most every type of Corrugated Box or Tray is a Printed Stamp, a Box Maker's Certificate (or BMC). This is a Circle or sometimes a Diamond with a large number and other smaller info printed inside it. The number inside the Circle could be the approximate ECT (Edge Crust Test) or the Mullen (Puncture resistance) estimation of that combination of Paper. The Higher the number in the BMC the more durable, more puncture resistant, the higher the stacking strength, etc.

NOW.... lets dig further. All Paper (whether it ends up being Liner or Medium) is produced at a Paper Mill. The Mill has huge Vats that create a Slurry of Paper fibers. Each slurry will have some percentage of Virgin wood material and some percentage of Recycled material (PCW - Post Consumer Waste). The normal amount of Recycled material is approx 15%, this number can increase to 85% or higher. With the decrease of Forests and the cheaper cost of Recycled material the Recycled content of all boxes has climbed dramatically over the past 10 years. The higher the Recycled content the higher the amount of foreign matter, tiny pieces of string, tiny metal pieces...etc...all wind up in the paper. There is no way to tell by looking at any given box how much Recycled material was in the mix when that paper was made, but the amount of foreign matter will greatly effect anything that is cutting it.


WHEW!! For those that are still awake I hope that helps with the understanding of the test material.... all Cardboard is DEFINATELY not the same.

For proper scientific testing the test material must be called out specifically and standardized as much as possible If you are serious about learning how different knives, steels or grinds compare to each other. But there is certainly nothing wrong with testing out one knife to see how it will perform cutting lots of good'ol Cardboard. :D
 
Hillbillenigma said:
For proper scientific testing the test material must be called out specifically and standardized as much as possible If you are serious about learning how different knives, steels or grinds compare to each other. But there is certainly nothing wrong with testing out one knife to see how it will perform cutting lots of good'ol Cardboard. :D

Great response! I was going to say something much less technical like "Aren't there a lot of variables between various pieces of cardboard?" but you gave us all a facinating lesson on cardboard! :) I might have to go look for that # to see how strong my card board is. :)

I guess to do a some what accurate test, the tester would have to go get a big card board box and test various knives by only cutting the cardboard from that box. However, from reading your post, a single box could have all that recycled junk in it and one section of the box could vary from another section.
 
I use cardboard as my primary test for edge holding since I don't really have much else to use to test with and we get a lot of packages from the "brown trucks". I have quite a few (100+) knives and I have used just about all of them to test on cardboard boxes and this is a few of the things I have found:
M2 steel seems to loose its edge faster then I would have thought for a tool steel.
D2 steel seems to cut a lot longer then most of the other steels.
VG-10 keeps up with D2 for quite awhile (depending on heat treat).
Puukkos and whaterver kind of steel they use hold up fairly well, especially the laminated blades.
However, the best 2 knives I have used that lost almost no cutting ability have been my Randall stainless mod. 10-3 and the best of all so far has been my Fallkniven U2. The U2 has cut up many, many boxes and still seems to just a sharp as when I got them.

So, FWIW
Ron
:rolleyes:
 
Nothing can touch a box cutter when it comes to slicing cardboard. (Except a laser monkey.)
 
Don't really use it as a "test" but I cut up a lot of pizza boxes because the recycling pickup guys just will not take them unless they're cut to size and put into a paper bag, pisses me off. I need a cheap box cutter, my knives get dull after the 20th or so pizza box.
 
Thanks for the kind words WadeF!

I have read alot of reports on testing with Cardboard (Corrugated) and thought I should finally offer some info on the subject. But I know cardboard properties is not relaxing bedtime reading for most folks book!! :D
 
I will cut untill you feel the edge tearing the cardboard. Its just a broad range/general test. Not to mention its very, very cheap.
 
Perhaps off topic, but I cut cardboard a LOT working at McDonalds. Every day I come home, run a ceramic rod over my SAK and its back to shaving sharp. Years of doing this has kept a razor edge on my blades with no apparent loss of steel from the blade stock. Really informative replies here fellas. Thanks for sharing your unique knowledge on the cardboard cutting/dulling effect. As an aside, my SAK cuts at least as well as a box cutter on several different thicknesses of cardboard, prompting me to stop carrying the box cutter in addition to my SAK which freed up my belt space.
 
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