Tidings and the return of Schatt and Morgan?

[cudgee]

With this crowd, you just got to hang around, they will snoop out any on goings and post them here

 

[HEMI 49]

I don't think the 440C is significantly harder to work with than 1095; although they do need to do a bit of a re-tool. Now D2 or the harder steels make a big difference; and the defect loss is a good bit higher according to a conversation I had with Bill at one point in the past. The demand is simply not there for a lot of 440C. It is talked about a lot; and wished for just as much. But when it is actually produced at GEC if the quantity is significant - they do not sell nearly as well. There are some small runs that have been snapped up quickly since it has become few and far between. But back when GEC was producing SS knives in quantity; they were sitting on shelves for months while the 1095 were moving around them. Some will disagree; but when you are a small dealer and your inventory is required to turn over - you have a fairly good understanding of what sits and what does not. If they made a run here and there - they would be applauded and the knives would surely sell quickly. But the latter is true of 1095; so why lose time at the factory to change over for SS when there are more people complaining about short runs than stainless steels?

Regarding S&M itself; I still have outstanding patterns in 420HC (their keystone steel prior to DFC) on the shelves that I purchased over a decade ago.

These 2 arrived today from CK...... VERY nice knives..... Brand new 11 year old classics..... 2 blade sway belly trappers..... I hope the new Schatt and Morgan can achieve as nice an offering.....

 

[brownshoe]

I'm sorry you weren't able to grab one, but I'm about over your attempts at insulting those of us who like it. You aren't even objectively correct, given that the Beer & Sausage is actually VERY useful. However, since you weren't able to score one and are lashing out at others, I'll give your lack of understanding on this a pass.

Thanks for the concern, but I never wanted this pattern...ever. I really believe the pattern is the product of marketing BS, hence the beard comb and vienna sausage fork with that name, B&S.

To me this marketing coup plus canceling of SFOs are good initial steps to prepare the firm's brand for putting it on the market in a few years. But I don't know squat

 

[Quiet]

But I don't know squat

I think that’s pretty clear to everyone who isn’t you.

Also, I wasn’t actually concerned. I’m just tired of the petulant tone of all your posts. It’s clear that the idea that others (in this case many others) could possibly like something you don’t like is a foreign concept. In any case, your crotchety grampa routine is wearing thin, As for GEC, well my suggestion might be for you to use “your MIND” (LOL) to support some business classes. They’re the number one game in town for a reason.

 

[Quiet]

These 2 arrived today from CK...... VERY nice knives..... Brand new 11 year old classics..... 2 blade sway belly trappers..... I hope the new Schatt and Morgan can achieve as nice an offering.....
View attachment 1437159 View attachment 1437160

Beautiful knives, I love the character on those. Thank you for sharing.

 

[GeofS]

I sure hope this turns out well.

After paying a marked up price for the GEC conductor and being unable to get a beer and sausage without also facing a jacked up price, I’m completely done with GEC and will not buy another blade from them anytime soon.

As I’ve decided to spend my money elsewhere, I’ve spent the last two weeks on the Bay looking at other traditionals. Long story short, I recently discovered Schatt and Morgan. In total, I ordered 14 knives, some are already here and some are coming. 13 are S&M, 8 of which are File & Wire. I am very pleased with the purchases I received so far.

I also prefer the ats-34 steel over 1095.

 

[brownshoe]

I think that’s pretty clear to everyone who isn’t you.

Also, I wasn’t actually concerned. I’m just tired of the petulant tone of all your posts. It’s clear that the idea that others (in this case many others) could possibly like something you don’t like is a foreign concept. In any case, your crotchety grampa routine is wearing thin, As for GEC, well my suggestion might be for you to use “your MIND” (LOL) to support some business classes. They’re the number one game in town for a reason.

I do take pleasure in the popularity of the BS knife. Marketing schemes are a great cutlery tradition and it's sweet to see it still alive. I gather you have several B&S knives...but only one beard...bet you don't have more than one in 5 years

 

[Pàdruig]

I sure hope this turns out well.

After paying a marked up price for the GEC conductor and being unable to get a beer and sausage without also facing a jacked up price, I’m completely done with GEC and will not buy another blade from them anytime soon.

As I’ve decided to spend my money elsewhere, I’ve spent the last two weeks on the Bay looking at other traditionals. Long story short, I recently discovered Schatt and Morgan. In total, I ordered 14 knives, some are already here and some are coming. 13 are S&M, 8 of which are File & Wire. I am very pleased with the purchases I received so far.

I also prefer the ats-34 steel over 1095.

I don't want to speculate too much as to how long you've been checking out the GEC game but I can absolutely see where newer folks experience a lot of frustration when it comes to trying to find a knife - particularly GECs.

I've been at it for a little while. I only use a handful of dealers and I'd say my success rate is pretty decent - some guys here have connections with ALL the dealers, are in all of the social media groups, and perhaps have greater success but I'm content with my methods and know my limits when it comes to getting overly frustrated with a hobby.

I really do hope that S&M finds success and that it provides a good alternative to the GEC scramble. I'm all for having other cutlery firms to be enthusiastic about - if we can talk about S&M in the same manner that we do GEC, it means they will be doing something right.

 

[Quiet]

I do take pleasure in the popularity of the BS knife. Marketing schemes are a great cutlery tradition and it's sweet to see it still alive. I gather you have several B&S knives...but only one beard...bet you don't have more than one in 5 years

Your post history about this specific knife seems more that you take enjoyment in making unflattering comments about the knife and the people who enjoy them. That’s not Porch behavior which is why I will keep calling you on it every time you do it. Also, I am puzzled at your repeated attempts to use the term “marketing” as some sort of derogative term.

 

[GeofS]

I don't want to speculate too much as to how long you've been checking out the GEC game but I can absolutely see where newer folks experience a lot of frustration when it comes to trying to find a knife - particularly GECs.

I've been at it for a little while. I only use a handful of dealers and I'd say my success rate is pretty decent - some guys here have connections with ALL the dealers, are in all of the social media groups, and perhaps have greater success but I'm content with my methods and know my limits when it comes to getting overly frustrated with a hobby.

I really do hope that S&M finds success and that it provides a good alternative to the GEC scramble. I'm all for having other cutlery firms to be enthusiastic about - if we can talk about S&M in the same manner that we do GEC, it means they will be doing something right.

My relationship with GEC hasn’t been very lengthy. I’ve been collecting knives for a few years and usually don’t have any problem getting whatever sprints I want. I have eclectic tastes and am all over the spectrum with what I like. With GEC I had signed up through every authorized dealer and couldn’t find an “in” for either of the two models I mentioned. For me, this is a hobby and I worked way too hard in both instances. I’m only going to work that hard for my wife or my boss. I’m not paying double the price on the Bay from an authorized dealer for a brand new product; I’d rather find something else more desirable for me and don’t care if it costs exponentially more. I’ve experienced getting GEC early reserve emails and when I log in minutes later, they are already gone. I was also discouraged by a less than helpful poster that responded to me on this MB who was probably trying to be funny but he made it seem that there was something akin to an inside info “Fight Club” about getting the scoop on them and I wouldn’t be privy to that info.

Bottomline though, it’s a win all around. GEC makes a quality product but IMHO their distribution is the pits. I don’t like their business model and will not patronize them. They are not the first business I feel this way about. With me not buying them, they’ll be one less person for others to have competition with and I’m having fun looking and spending my money elsewhere. I’ll post up a group shot of all my Schatt & Morgan’s when they get here.

I’ll be watching this thread closely and wish the Coopers much success. As others have said, make them in America and hold them to a high standard of quality. I’ll be all over them.

 

[brownshoe]

S&M was pretty true to traditional patterns, I hope the new company will be too. No BS New manufacturing blood is good for those who like Traditional knives.

 

[r8shell]

S&M was pretty true to traditional patterns, I hope the new company will be too. No BS New manufacturing blood is good for those who like Traditional knives.

Okay, okay, we get it. You don't like the beard comb and you're too smart to fall for marketing schemes. You must only own two knives since you only have two hands. Good for you.

I hope the new Schatt & Morgan knives are a success.

 

[Eli Chaps]

These 2 arrived today from CK...... VERY nice knives..... Brand new 11 year old classics..... 2 blade sway belly trappers..... I hope the new Schatt and Morgan can achieve as nice an offering.....
View attachment 1437159 View attachment 1437160

Very nice!

A few months ago I was whittling down my next knife list and that green S&M was on it. But, I didn't know enough to know if it was stainless and it wasn't listed on the site*. So, since most things "traditional" are carbon, I assumed these were too and passed. I want stainless in my pocket knives. I bought a lionSTEEL knife from @knifeswapper instead.

So all this comes up and Mike mentions having had stainless S&M models in his inventory for a decade. I send him a message all like, "hey Mike, if you woulda put in the knife description that it was stainless, I woulda bought one a while back."

Mike sends me back a polite message saying he doesn't understand because he thinks he did list that on all of them.

I'm all, "nah, I checked again today and it don't say..."

Then just to be suuuuuuuper sure I pulled up the listing again, and there it was. *Steel: Stainless.



My eyes just never saw it. Can I throw down the over the over 50 card?

If Mr. Cooper produces a stainless knife in a pattern I like that is in keeping with what Mike has listed on his site, especially that 4 blade sowbelly, I will definitely want one.

Also, folks should go to: https://www.collectorknives.net/product-category/schatt-morgan-knives/ and buy up these beauts.

 

[HEMI 49]

Very nice!

A few months ago I was whittling down my next knife list and that green S&M was on it. But, I didn't know enough to know if it was stainless and it wasn't listed on the site*. So, since most things "traditional" are carbon, I assumed these were too and passed. I want stainless in my pocket knives. I bought a lionSTEEL knife from @knifeswapper instead.

So all this comes up and Mike mentions having had stainless S&M models in his inventory for a decade. I send him a message all like, hey Mike, if you woulda put in the knife description that it was stainless, I woulda bought one a while back.

Mike sends me back a polite message saying he doesn't understand because he thinks he did list that on all of them.

I'm all, "nah, I checked again today and it don't say..."

Then just to be suuuuuuuper sure I pulled up the listing again, and there it was. *Steel: Stainless.



My eyes just never saw it. Can I throw down the over the over 50 card?

If Mr. Cooper produces a stainless knife in a pattern I like that is in keeping with what Mike has listed on his site, especially that 4 blade sowbelly, I will definitely want one.

Also, folks should go to: https://www.collectorknives.net/product-category/schatt-morgan-knives/ and buy up these beauts.

The two I got from CK are indistinguishable from the best GEC's I own...... They are very nice knives......

 

[Jiki]

Hopefully Mr Cooper will make some of these traditional patterns.

 

[GeofS]

These 2 arrived today from CK...... VERY nice knives..... Brand new 11 year old classics..... 2 blade sway belly trappers..... I hope the new Schatt and Morgan can achieve as nice an offering.....
View attachment 1437159 View attachment 1437160

Those are exceptional!

 

[sitflyer]

This knife sums up the situation!

priced per blade, its a bargain

You got me interested in one of these now That's a lot of blade in a moderate package.

 

[Pàdruig]

My relationship with GEC hasn’t been very lengthy. I’ve been collecting knives for a few years and usually don’t have any problem getting whatever sprints I want. I have eclectic tastes and am all over the spectrum with what I like. With GEC I had signed up through every authorized dealer and couldn’t find an “in” for either of the two models I mentioned. For me, this is a hobby and I worked way too hard in both instances. I’m only going to work that hard for my wife or my boss. I’m not paying double the price on the Bay from an authorized dealer for a brand new product; I’d rather find something else more desirable for me and don’t care if it costs exponentially more. I’ve experienced getting GEC early reserve emails and when I log in minutes later, they are already gone. I was also discouraged by a less than helpful poster that responded to me on this MB who was probably trying to be funny but he made it seem that there was something akin to an inside info “Fight Club” about getting the scoop on them and I wouldn’t be privy to that info.

Bottomline though, it’s a win all around. GEC makes a quality product but IMHO their distribution is the pits. I don’t like their business model and will not patronize them. They are not the first business I feel this way about. With me not buying them, they’ll be one less person for others to have competition with and I’m having fun looking and spending my money elsewhere. I’ll post up a group shot of all my Schatt & Morgan’s when they get here.

I’ll be watching this thread closely and wish the Coopers much success. As others have said, make them in America and hold them to a high standard of quality. I’ll be all over them.

Again, I absolutely understand the frustration - I get frustrated too sometimes. The B&S knife was such a time - I missed the reserve and could not at all land one otherwise. It certainly doesn't help that I'm somewhat principled and will absolutely not pay substantially over retail right after a release.

I don't want to detract too much from this thread's topic but in some sense, it does tie in a bit - especially since GEC continues to be a point of comparison. If one doesn't like how GEC operates, I really would love to see what changes you'd recommend. A popular answer is for them to up their production - easier said than done for a variety of reasons.

Otherwise, the blame can reside with dealers, if one is to point fingers. Ethics vary, distribution methods differ, some will put your name on a list (most don't), and many get allotted a fair number more than others. SFOs are generally limited to runs of 100 or less and usually with any run, there is a significant amount of variety - configuration and cover wise.

All this to say, the demand continues to climb with no signs of really slowing down. If one were to look at production totals from year to year, I think one could ascertain that GEC progressively makes more and more knives every year - though this particular year would likely be an exception.

Unfortunately, I fail to see what GEC could do to "fix" the issues that some have with them - at least not without making significant sacrifices in other ways.

With this increased interest and demand, there is absolutely room for more manufacturers of traditional cutlery and this is where the Coopers and S&M come in - I can't wait to see what they contribute to the market.

(As an aside, for the record, I have had a few folks reach out to me, asking for assistance with navigating the world of GEC collecting. I love to help where I can and would absolutely be happy to do the same for you should you wish it. There are no "fight clubs", no secrets, and no special handshakes - I'm not nearly as plugged in as many here and I still am met with moderate to good success most of the time.)

 

[GeofS]

Again, I absolutely understand the frustration - I get frustrated too sometimes. The B&S knife was such a time - I missed the reserve and could not at all land one otherwise. It certainly doesn't help that I'm somewhat principled and will absolutely not pay substantially over retail right after a release.

I don't want to detract too much from this thread's topic but in some sense, it does tie in a bit - especially since GEC continues to be a point of comparison. If one doesn't like how GEC operates, I really would love to see what changes you'd recommend. A popular answer is for them to up their production - easier said than done for a variety of reasons.

Otherwise, the blame can reside with dealers, if one is to point fingers. Ethics vary, distribution methods differ, some will put your name on a list (most don't), and many get allotted a fair number more than others. SFOs are generally limited to runs of 100 or less and usually with any run, there is a significant amount of variety - configuration and cover wise.

All this to say, the demand continues to climb with no signs of really slowing down. If one were to look at production totals from year to year, I think one could ascertain that GEC progressively makes more and more knives every year - though this particular year would likely be an exception.

Unfortunately, I fail to see what GEC could do to "fix" the issues that some have with them - at least not without making significant sacrifices in other ways.

With this increased interest and demand, there is absolutely room for more manufacturers of traditional cutlery and this is where the Coopers and S&M come in - I can't wait to see what they contribute to the market.

(As an aside, for the record, I have had a few folks reach out to me, asking for assistance with navigating the world of GEC collecting. I love to help where I can and would absolutely be happy to do the same for you should you wish it. There are no "fight clubs", no secrets, and no special handshakes - I'm not nearly as plugged in as many here and I still am met with moderate to good success most of the time.)

As I’ve already known, you are very kind and an exceptional asset here. Thank you, good sir.

 

[Camillus]

You got me interested in one of these now That's a lot of blade in a moderate package.

it’s a very nice knife. A bit too chunky for my taste - I like the Schrade 897 size in a traditional stockman. At first I thought it was 1095 and I had a huge grin on my face when I found out it was stainless. Yes!

I am not surprised that @knifeswapper finds the market perplexing if a knife like that sits on the shelf for ten years and a GEC has a waiting list. The manufacturing quality is similar, the Queen is stainless and with wonderful bone. And people keep asking GEC for a sowbelly!

The only slight negative is the shape of the clip blade - Queen was never as good at GEC is at blade shapes or grinds.