TIG Welder Advice

M

marauder6

Joined
Feb 12, 2012
Messages
2
I'm looking at a small portable 110V ESAB TIG Welder for my shop. Any/all advice is greatly welcomed before I spend $700 to add the ability to weld threaded rod to a knife tang!
 
marauder6 said:
I'm looking at a small portable 110V ESAB TIG Welder for my shop. Any/all advice is greatly welcomed before I spend $700 to add the ability to weld threaded rod to a knife tang!
Click to expand...

Right now all you want to do is weld a threaded rod to a knife tang, but many more opportunities will arrive. do you have a link to the machine specs?
 
Do you have adequate stick and mig welders already. If not, the Lincoln 210 MP is multi process machine that can run on 110 and 220 and can mig, stick and with the addition of a fifty dollar torch on ebay and argon, scratch start tig. You can also lift arc tig if you get the adapter and an aperage controll device. It is only 300 dollars more than you are looking to spend and is way more versatile.
 
From the point of view of a welder with a shop full of tools, I'd seriously consider spending that money on an oxyacetylene torch set. You can not only weld but braze, plus about a bazillion other useful things. Most likely you'll find a used set in good condition for half that.
If what you really want is to TIG because it's cool to TIG, (and it truly is very cool to TIG) then take a class and invest in a HF unit. (HF= High Frequency= you don't have to touch the electrode to your work to start the arc) Scratch start seems cool at first, but once you get familiar with the process, you'll see why scratch/lift are a compromise at best.

Remember that you have to buy gas cylinder and flow meter and head shield, so just the ESAB only gets you part way there.
Don't forget that TIG radiation burns like crazy, you have to cover ALL exposed skin.
 
JMJones said:
Do you have adequate stick and mig welders already. If not, the Lincoln 210 MP is multi process machine that can run on 110 and 220 and can mig, stick and with the addition of a fifty dollar torch on ebay and argon, scratch start tig. You can also lift arc tig if you get the adapter and an aperage controll device. It is only 300 dollars more than you are looking to spend and is way more versatile.
Click to expand...
It will not AC tig though. Any Tig welder will Stick weld as they are both Constant Current (CC)power sources. Both Miller and Lincoln offer a 200 amp AC/DC inverter welder that will run off of 110 or 220. The output will not be 200 amps off of 110 but it gets pretty close. The miller has a better AC waveshape and balance control for AC. I really like the thermal arc 200 amp inverter for the garage. Its like around $1000 ready to weld minus an argon bottle and it has a very nice arc. Just remember most machines only come with the machine and all the accessories can add way up. Get a foot control.
 
elementfe said:
From the point of view of a welder with a shop full of tools, I'd seriously consider spending that money on an oxyacetylene torch set. You can not only weld but braze, plus about a bazillion other useful things. Most likely you'll find a used set in good condition for half that.
If what you really want is to TIG because it's cool to TIG, (and it truly is very cool to TIG) then take a class and invest in a HF unit. (HF= High Frequency= you don't have to touch the electrode to your work to start the arc) Scratch start seems cool at first, but once you get familiar with the process, you'll see why scratch/lift are a compromise at best.

Remember that you have to buy gas cylinder and flow meter and head shield, so just the ESAB only gets you part way there.
Don't forget that TIG radiation burns like crazy, you have to cover ALL exposed skin.
Click to expand...

Seconded, with exceptions. I bought a mig and a plasma cutter and can't have a torch set that I want because home owners insurance won't cover us with the bottles in the garage:grumpy:... Compromises because it's the only space I can put it. Always best to check BEFORE purchasing.

I will definitely say that if it's your one and only machine, mig is pretty hard to beat. Turn it on, crank the bottle, point and shoot. Tig is nice, but you will absolutely want to weld other things than tangs, and tig is a slow process. It's excellent for exotic alloys and specialty situations, but for simple steel and aluminum fab it's overkill and wasteful, not to mention more difficult to learn. You will use at least twice the gas, if not more than with mig, it's significantly slower, and everything has to be shiny clean with almost zero contaminants to be welded with the tig process. To me that's a few dollars here, a few extra minutes there and it all adds up in the end, big time.

I have an American made hobart 210 mvp mig welder, and couldn't be happier. The only thing I'm missing is the spool gun, but I haven't even needed to weld aluminum yet so no worries there. Bought it used with a BUNCH of accessories, ready to weld and then some. I think I paid 800 or 900 for it all about a year ago. Looking for a deal like that would be your best bet IMHO... I still haven't wished I had a tig, except that I want to learn it better, and it definitely has a cool factor!

Justin
 
Tig welding would be best for welding threaded rod to tangs, its way cleaner, less build up on the weld and you can use it on steel and titanium on DC. If you can save up the money when it comes to tig welders you get what you pay for, in my opinion and I know everyone has one, stick with a Miller or Lincoln. Miller is by far the best then a far away second is Lincoln then maybe Hobart. Also make sure you wire brush off any galvanizing or any plating off the threaded rod you can tig weld through it but it will tear up your lungs BAD!!!!!!
 
schwartztactical said:
Tig welding would be best for welding threaded rod to tangs, its way cleaner, less build up on the weld and you can use it on steel and titanium on DC. If you can save up the money when it comes to tig welders you get what you pay for, in my opinion and I know everyone has one, stick with a Miller or Lincoln. Miller is by far the best then a far away second is Lincoln then maybe Hobart. Also make sure you wire brush off any galvanizing or any plating off the threaded rod you can tig weld through it but it will tear up your lungs BAD!!!!!!
Click to expand...



I definitely wouldn't be considering a portable 110V TIG unit.. Definitely a 220V inverter TIG, but not 110. I wasn't even aware of their existence.


I've got an ESAB Heliarc 252 which is a big transformer TIG machine, which I use when I need TIG, but in all honesty, 99% of my shop, fab, damascus, etc. work gets done with a 220V MIG (Esab Migmaster 250). I'm a big ESAB fan, but if you don't already have a decent 220V input MIG welder, that's what you need to be spending money on first.

There's no reason you can't easily use this for welding threaded rods to tangs, although as mentioned, there's a number of other ways you can do this.

Still, a good MIG welder is one of the best shop tool investments you can make. The *only* knifemaking task I use the TIG welder for is dry welding damascus billets.


FWIW, Hobart is owned/made by Miller, and though many of you might not be familiar with the ESAB name, they're widely used and highly regarded in industrial circles. They're just not as much of a small shop name.


Consider something such as this: http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/hobart-handlerreg%3B-190-mig-welder-spool-gun-ready


Not as expensive as the equivalent Miller model, maybe not as durable but I had a Handler 187 for years that was usually my go-to welder for smaller stuff than I needed the bigger machine for, just for convenience.
 
one of the coolest knife maker uses that I have seen for a TIG machine is no filler metal tacking of damascus stacks.:thumbup:
 
Before anything else answer this, do you already have experience with tht GTAW process? If yes then buy a tig. There is absolutely nothing wrong wit a 110v 200 amp inverter machine. I have personally welded with them many many many times. 200 amps is 200 amps no matter what the input voltage is. That's why inverters are great. If you need over 200 amps for anything knife related, you're overheating your metal. I am a miller guy through and through when it comes to tig welders. Lincoln's have terrible balance control but they are releasing a machine to compete with the millers. Lincoln even knows their tigs suck. Guys suggesting mig are doing so cause anyone can mig, it's easy and fast. You are limited with what metals you can easily weld. You'll get suggestions for spool guns and the ability to weld stainless, they all require extra accessories and cylinders of expensive gases. Then after all that the results are poor. Tig does it all with the same gases, no extra accessories and better quality. Yes the tig process is slower but are you watching the time clock in your garage? Tig you'll put less heat into the blade if you know what you're doing because you have a narrower arc cone. You'll also have less cleanup. Either prepare the metal to tig weld it or grind a big old mig weld off after. It's much easier to clean metal than grind welds. I will say that I've never met an esab machine, rods, or wire that I cared for. The make a nice plasma but I think their welding arcs suck. The thermal arc I suggested earlier has the same arc characteristics as millers. It's cheaper and comes ready to go.
The last benefit I'll say about tig is that you can weld dissimilar metals, damascus, brass to carbon, stainless to carbon... All without sending sparks all over your garage.
Take my post for what you paid for it, if you'd like to know my welding credentials then I'd be happy to supply them.
 
Sandeggo said:
Before anything else answer this, do you already have experience with tht GTAW process? If yes then buy a tig. There is absolutely nothing wrong wit a 110v 200 amp inverter machine. I have personally welded with them many many many times. 200 amps is 200 amps no matter what the input voltage is. That's why inverters are great. If you need over 200 amps for anything knife related, you're overheating your metal. I am a miller guy through and through when it comes to tig welders. Lincoln's have terrible balance control but they are releasing a machine to compete with the millers. Lincoln even knows their tigs suck. Guys suggesting mig are doing so cause anyone can mig, it's easy and fast. You are limited with what metals you can easily weld. You'll get suggestions for spool guns and the ability to weld stainless, they all require extra accessories and cylinders of expensive gases. Then after all that the results are poor. Tig does it all with the same gases, no extra accessories and better quality. Yes the tig process is slower but are you watching the time clock in your garage? Tig you'll put less heat into the blade if you know what you're doing because you have a narrower arc cone. You'll also have less cleanup. Either prepare the metal to tig weld it or grind a big old mig weld off after. It's much easier to clean metal than grind welds. I will say that I've never met an esab machine, rods, or wire that I cared for. The make a nice plasma but I think their welding arcs suck. The thermal arc I suggested earlier has the same arc characteristics as millers. It's cheaper and comes ready to go.
The last benefit I'll say about tig is that you can weld dissimilar metals, damascus, brass to carbon, stainless to carbon... All without sending sparks all over your garage.
Take my post for what you paid for it, if you'd like to know my welding credentials then I'd be happy to supply them.
Click to expand...

Sandeggo, none of your answers are incorrect, but I wonder how much welding you've done in pursuit of knifemaking, no offense. I can tack and grind the weld of a tang to threaded rod joint faster than I can pull the pedal out from under my tig unit and make sure everything else about it is ready to go.


If the OP has GTAW experience, then yes, that may be the best bet for a single welder. It's *definitely* more versatile with skill, but it's also definitely more time consuming in any task where GMAW is viable.

In fact, the aforementioned use of TIGing up dry billets is only necessary part of the time, most of the time it's simply quicker to mig with low penetration and clean up after the forge weld.


For the OP time might not be money, but it sure is in my shop. So I guess, YMMV, as always.


As far as a 110 inverter unit, yeah I guess you're correct, I wasn't aware there were any 200amp models. Obviously I haven't been in the market for a welder in a long time. As far as brands go, welder loyalty is like car loyalty. Everybody swears their brand is the best. Personally I highly prefer ESAB's arc over miller's or lincoln's, to each their own. I used a Lincoln Invertec V205 a while back and it seemed fine. Which I guess now, thinking back it was capable of 110 input. So, yeah, I was wrong about that.
 
It should really also be re-iterated that there are a number of ways to complete the OP's task without a welder.


Most people braze instead of weld. Some thread the tang itself, which is easy, and they can be mechanically fastened also.


If you don't need or want a welder otherwise, definitely don't buy one for this, personally I don't think it's the best way regardless.
 
I'm a welder by trade. And I just bought one of the cheap Chinese tig/stick elders from amazon for my garage, it's still in route though so I can't REALLY give a review on it, but i heard enough good things to spend $400 on it.
At work we use miller xmt's. They work great, but are expensive. Remember to pick up a tig torch with a gas valve and a flex head. Also get a gas lens, they save on cover gas.
 
javand said:
Sandeggo, none of your answers are incorrect, but I wonder how much welding you've done in pursuit of knifemaking, no offense. I can tack and grind the weld of a tang to threaded rod joint faster than I can pull the pedal out from under my tig unit and make sure everything else about it is ready to go.


If the OP has GTAW experience, then yes, that may be the best bet for a single welder. It's *definitely* more versatile with skill, but it's also definitely more time consuming in any task where GMAW is viable.

In fact, the aforementioned use of TIGing up dry billets is only necessary part of the time, most of the time it's simply quicker to mig with low penetration and clean up after the forge weld.


For the OP time might not be money, but it sure is in my shop. So I guess, YMMV, as always.


As far as a 110 inverter unit, yeah I guess you're correct, I wasn't aware there were any 200amp models. Obviously I haven't been in the market for a welder in a long time. As far as brands go, welder loyalty is like car loyalty. Everybody swears their brand is the best. Personally I highly prefer ESAB's arc over miller's or lincoln's, to each their own. I used a Lincoln Invertec V205 a while back and it seemed fine. Which I guess now, thinking back it was capable of 110 input. So, yeah, I was wrong about that.
Click to expand...

The only welding I've done for knifemaking is building equipment for knifemaking. But let's be honest for a second. No person is going to buy a welder and only use it on the tang of a knife. Once you have a welder so much other things/people pop up needing welding. Each process has it's place. It is my personal opinion that the ultimate welder for a garage is a tig welder because you can weld any industrial and exotic allow with it. Even gold... Yes gold. I had a miller 200 amp tig that I had to sell years back and have kicked my own butt about it so many times. I have a miller 185mig in my garage I've only used once. It's a hassle to mig in the garage. One day I'll offload the mig and buy a tig and never look back. Yeah people have their loyalty but in my opinion the miller really stands out when you start adjusting the frequency and manipulating the AC wave shape that most people don't even know what it does. For the average joe in the garage it's really not all that important. That is why I suggest the thermal arc as it comes with the torch, foot control, finger control, flow meter, ground, and consumables all for less than the miller or Lincoln and it has a sweet arc. Millers new synchrowave 210 is in a shell of their millermatic mig and requires you to purchase a sd card to open up advanced square wave options for more money. It comes with accessories as well. If the OP has tig experience then I recommend trying the various machines out at your local welding supply. It's a big purchase do it right the first time. The biggest thing for me is no sparks with tig. In my garage I have a boat, gas cans, law mowers, etc that all it takes is one spark landing in the right spot.
 
Sandeggo said:
The only welding I've done for knifemaking is building equipment for knifemaking. But let's be honest for a second. No person is going to buy a welder and only use it on the tang of a knife. Once you have a welder so much other things/people pop up needing welding. Each process has it's place. It is my personal opinion that the ultimate welder for a garage is a tig welder because you can weld any industrial and exotic allow with it. Even gold... Yes gold. I had a miller 200 amp tig that I had to sell years back and have kicked my own butt about it so many times. I have a miller 185mig in my garage I've only used once. It's a hassle to mig in the garage. One day I'll offload the mig and buy a tig and never look back. Yeah people have their loyalty but in my opinion the miller really stands out when you start adjusting the frequency and manipulating the AC wave shape that most people don't even know what it does. For the average joe in the garage it's really not all that important. That is why I suggest the thermal arc as it comes with the torch, foot control, finger control, flow meter, ground, and consumables all for less than the miller or Lincoln and it has a sweet arc. Millers new synchrowave 210 is in a shell of their millermatic mig and requires you to purchase a sd card to open up advanced square wave options for more money. It comes with accessories as well. If the OP has tig experience then I recommend trying the various machines out at your local welding supply. It's a big purchase do it right the first time. The biggest thing for me is no sparks with tig. In my garage I have a boat, gas cans, law mowers, etc that all it takes is one spark landing in the right spot.
Click to expand...


Definitely agree that if you've got TIG experience and can only have one welder, then it's the ultimate. Well, a well equipped multiprocess welder would I guess be the real ultimate. ;)


If money weren't an object, I'd definitely have a Miller XMT 304 or similar with all the accessories.
 
Chris Pierce said:
I'm a welder by trade. And I just bought one of the cheap Chinese tig/stick elders from amazon for my garage, it's still in route though so I can't REALLY give a review on it, but i heard enough good things to spend $400 on it.
At work we use miller xmt's. They work great, but are expensive. Remember to pick up a tig torch with a gas valve and a flex head. Also get a gas lens, they save on cover gas.
Click to expand...
Xmt's are great multiprocess machines. We have 100 of them at my work where I teach welding running stick, flux, dual shield, and spool guns. They are about 3500-5k each depending on which one you get and they're DC tig only. Gas lenses can help distribute shielding gas and can save some argon but the biggest issue I see people doing is using way too much cfh on the flow meter. Most things can be welded using 15-20 cfh. People always think more is better and with tig it's the opposite.
The last thing I'll say in this thread is when you are tig welding in the garage make sure the doors are open. Argon is heavier than air and can and will kill you.
 
I agree with getting an oxy/ace torch set first. It's a pretty basic necessity IMO for a metalworking shop. Even if only limited to the topic of tang extensions, it is better to braze than weld for those. Less grain enlargement and air hardening.
Of course TIG is wonderful to have... I was tig welding steel for a few hours today working for my friend, very enjoyable.
 
I got a miller max star 200 dx and love it. It does dc tig and stick. You can plug it in to 110 and 220. Your breaker will trip on the 110 on high amperage though. Plenty of power up to 200 amps. I prefer a thumb operated remote on the torch but some people who sit when they weld like a foot pedal.
 
javand said:
In fact, the aforementioned use of TIGing up dry billets is only necessary part of the time, most of the time it's simply quicker to mig with low penetration and clean up after the forge weld..
Click to expand...
Of course, that assumes that your MIG welded billet and /or handle actually stays stuck together during the forge welding and forging process. ;)
 
Lots of good solid info here.
I have three MIG machines and use them daily, but I'll say this about wire feed- it's the easiest process with which to make a great looking but weak weld.
Unless you understand welding well enough to evaluate whether that purty bead is actually bonding the two pieces, you'll often get a weld that ain't a weld. Kind of hard to manage on tiny stuff like tang-to-threaded rod. I'd braze it.

If I had to sell all my electrical welding equipment, the last one to go would be the TIG, that's for sure. The "V" in TIG stands for Versatility. Well, if there was one, it would.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top