Time for my exit; Adios shop talk

J. Doyle

J. Doyle

Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
7,868
I can't waste any more of my time in this subforum. This is something I've been threatening quietly to myself and a few close friends for some time now so its not new. But I woke up this morning and today seems like the day.

Its no secret that some participants in shop talk have driven away many quality, seasoned and knowledgeable makers for a long time now, leaving many to wonder why.

I don't consider myself even remotely in the same field as some of the greats that used to post here but don't anymore. Nor do I feel I had a ton of knowledge to share. But I don't want anyone to have to wonder why I'm choosing to not participate here any further.

This place has become a muddled wasteland of bad information, inflated egos and pointless nonsense. There is so little good sound factual info left that it isn't worth sorting through the bad info anymore.

There are more than a few internet 'experts' that give advice on every topic under the sun yet can't or won't provide a single clear photo example to prove they know what they're talking about, much less ever even attempted the topic at hand......some even when asked directly for such, offering excuses instead or leaving radio silence.

Proven experienced knowledgeable veterans are allowed to be repeatedly hassled by ameteur trolls that should have been banned long ago.

There is a gross lack of discernment between levels of craftsmanship and being self-aware of one's skill sets is largely a long lost attribute.

There is a serious lack of leadership to go along with the lack of factual info. If I was seeking good knifemaking info, this is not the place I'd turn to. I feel sorry for the new maker seeking real knowledge that stumbles in here and has to wade through the aforementioned rubbish to find the few nuggets of truth that are still offered up by the few knowledgeable experts that are still graciously willing to waste their time here.

So these are the reasons that I just won't do it anymore. Good luck folks.
 
John,

Sorry to see you leaving YOUR contributions:thumbsup: to this forum will be missed!

Happy New Year my Friend:cool::thumbsup:

Mike
 
John,
I hope you come back at some point.
Although there may be a variety of replies to some questions, I think people put a lot of weight on the opinions of a few people who are clearly experienced and skilled. I usually feel able to sift out some great guidance.
 
John, While I do understand the amount of time it can take to be active on a forum, I do want you to know that many of use (myself especially) really do appreciate the knowledge you have shared with us.

You are correct there is a lot of rubbish to dig thru for good info. BUT - I do think most folks, even newbies are able to determine who to listen (read) to pretty quick and just pass over the crap to get to folks like yourself, Larrin, Hoss, Stacy, and many others. You have contributed LOTS to this forum, and especially to my learning.

I do hope you will come back after a short rest - we'll miss you.

Ken H>
 
Well Mr. Doyle, I’ll be sorry to see you go! Your knives have certainly inspired me!!
 
As one of the newer makers around who learned 90% of what I know from this forum, I'm very sorry to see you go! Hopefully you keep up your IG posts so I can follow along with your talent in that way at least!
 
Sorry to see you go, maybe in the future you will decide to come back.
Some of the problems you mentions would be greatly improved if,
1. Everyone used their REAL names.
2. If one gives advice on for instance etching Damascus, they must include a picture of their work to show that they really know what they are talking about.
 
Very sorry to see you go. You gave me the most solid and useful info and inspiration.:thumbsup:

This should be stickied and read by every member.
 
You will be missed. I hope you can reconsider.
I'm a newbie maker having only been making knives seriously for about 2 years. This forum has really helped me to get started. It is the internet in a country with free speech so everyone is free to say what they like. I find that if you spend a little time on the forum you can see who really knows what they are doing. It's a shame that experianced makers are feeling pushed out. I can spot someone who knows how to use a tool from across a shop by the way they hold themselves or a tool I think that a few post many times show who really knows what they are doing. There is a difference in tone between someone who understands versus someone who regurgitates hearsay. I realize that filtering out all of that static can be frustrating.
 
Sorry to see you leave, John. Hopefully you will just take a break for a while and come back. You are always welcome here.

And, I do actually make knives and swords, I just don't take a lot of photos.
 
I think it speaks tremendously to your character for speaking up about why you’re leaving instead of just walking away. Very upsetting to see a great maker leave. Hopefully you’ll still post in the custom and handmade forum.
I wish there was a fix for this kind of thing happening.
 
It's sad because this shop talk forum is by far the best forum here in terms of signal-to-noise ratio. I agree with you; there has been more noise recently, but I think most of us know who should be ignored and who has gravitas.

You have gravitas in abundance, as does anyone with an orange banner (maker/craftsman) under their name. Many times I'll read threads and not bother to comment, since it's obvious who is here to troll and who knows what they're talking about. (I usually block the idiots/trolls) and find the forums much better as a result :)

Your input is sincerely valued & I hope you reconsider participating after the noisemakers have quieted down
 
Josh Rider said:
I think it speaks tremendously to your character for speaking up about why you’re leaving instead of just walking away. Very upsetting to see a great maker leave. Hopefully you’ll still post in the custom and handmade forum.
I wish there was a fix for this kind of thing happening.
Click to expand...
Honestly, I can think of a few repeat BS spewers who should have been banned long ago. I mean, on a forum like this one, where the main goal is helping each other gain knowledge, repeatedly putting out obviously bogus information should be a ban. If someone can't get the hint that they should listen more than talk after being informed multiple times who needs them? I know usually, the measure for banning is gross misconduct, but why clutter the place up with bs?
 
This seems like a good moment to express my tremendous gratification for the experts who take the time to field all sorts of questions, including questions they've probably answered a hundred times before. I know a lot of the new and not-so-new makers on the forum feel the same way. I'm in no way a troll (despite my lack of pictures), but I sure do ask some newbie questions! I'm always grateful when the craftsmen put down their work for a moment and help the next generation of makers--even old farts like me--find their way. Thank you all!
 
It deeply saddens me to see you go. We have lost so many good smiths over the years for similar reasons. I still have hope deep down that things will improve for the better. I remember once upon a time here that “pic or it didn’t happen” was the “required” standard so to speak.

I think one change that would help is to have an “experts corner” so to speek. Maybe not call it that, maybe call it grumpy bladesmiths timeout or some such thing. But have a place for the guys like you where you can post and chat with other skilled makers. Everyone can view the posts but only people with X clearance could post. Or only proven bladesmiths can start threads but anyone can post a response like a question.

I’m not trying to segregate and make people feal bad. I just think if somthing isn't done soon we will loose all the experanced guys and it will just be a bunch of armchair makers. If there was a dedicated place for them I think we would see a big difference in retention. Plus much higher willingness for them to put in the time for WIP threads.

But I’m just a humble member who cares about the form so I’m not real sure what the answer is.
 
JTknives said:
It deeply saddens me to see you go. We have lost so many good smiths over the years for similar reasons. I still have hope deep down that things will improve for the better. I remember once upon a time here that “pic or it didn’t happen” was the “required” standard so to speak.

I think one change that would help is to have an “experts corner” so to speek. Maybe not call it that, maybe call it grumpy bladesmiths timeout or some such thing. But have a place for the guys like you where you can post and chat with other skilled makers. Everyone can view the posts but only people with X clearance could post. Or only proven bladesmiths can start threads but anyone can post a response like a question.

I’m not trying to segregate and make people feal bad. I just think if somthing isn't done soon we will loose all the experanced guys and it will just be a bunch of armchair makers. If there was a dedicated place for them I think we would see a big difference in retention. Plus much higher willingness for them to put in the time for WIP threads.

But I’m just a humble member who cares about the form so I’m not real sure what the answer is.
Click to expand...
Well said JT. I don't know If it would work here, but I'm in a FB group (the whiteboard one) that will only post your posting once a mod has reviewed it. If you prove to not be a troll, and are positively contributing, you can post at will. They have a bunch of mods. And if you troll, spam or just repeatedly show you are GAWC ( Giving Advice While Clueless) you get booted. I want noobs to ask questions, because I like paying it forward. I got my start here. I agree there are negatives to the format, but overall, it's a net positive in my book. I get stoked seeing people improve.
 
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