Time to recommend a new beginner steel

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DevinT

Joined
Jan 29, 2010
Messages
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Thirty years ago I was getting a lot of phone calls concerning problems smiths were having making damascus. I also needed help when I started making the stuff.

At the time, guys were using all kinds of steels to make pattern welded damascus. 1095, W2, W1, O1, O2, 5160, 203E, nickel, 52100, and lots of recycled material. In order to simplify things, I started telling everyone to start using 1084 and 15n20. It is probably the easiest combination to forge weld and pattern.

As the word got out, makers started using 1084 to forge mono-steel blades out of, I’m sure others figured it out on their own also.

Being active here on the forum for a couple of years, I see lots of new makers having trouble heat treating the simple steels in their forges and furnaces.

I think we need to start recommending low alloy steels like 80crV2 to new makers. It is more tolerant of time and temperature. It is not as susceptible to grain growth or over heating and has a larger range of temperature to harden from. With small amounts of alloy, it is deeper hardening as well.

It comes in a wide range of sizes from AKS and others.

1084 is a good steel but I do think some low alloy steels would be better for the new makers.

Hoss
 
Interesting! Beyond 80crV2, what others would you recommend? I’m pretty much a beginner and I’d be interested in expanding beyond 1084, just for variety really...
 
You know I have not personally had experience with 80crv2 besides the heat treating I do for customers. But I seam to get an overall disappointed response to the steel from them. But like I said, I have never forged it or made a blade from it. I do like 5160 for some things but generally prefer 52100.
 
I wouldn’t recommend 52100 for a beginner.

The old time cutlery companies used a steel called 1095CV, which was 1095 with .50 cr and .2 v. 80crV2 is 1080 with .50 cr and .20 v.

The vanadium prevents grain growth, and the chrome makes it deeper hardening. W2 with 20 points of vanadium is better than W1 with no vanadium.

80crV2 is easier to heat treat and tougher than 1084. I think it’s a better choice for the new maker.

Hoss
 
Oh I was not saying 52100 for beginners at all. I was saying I like 5160 but like 52100 more.
 
Completely agreed. It's a eutectoid steel, it has Cr to make it deeper hardening (easier to achieve hardness without fast oil), and has V to keep aus grain small (forgiveness in hardening temp). My only caveat is that it's best potential is had with a short soak, at a precise held temp, to get alloy in solution (but with that said, the vanadium will give some leeway in aus temp). This was my very first steel, using a "paint can forge" to HT!! I couldn't recommend this steel enough to beginners. Good results are easily attainable. Excellent results require only a bit more time at temp. It is, indeed, a great so called "beginners" steel for these very reasons.
 
I made a hunting knife from 80crv2 and really like it so far. I wish I’d have gone a bit thinner on the edge before sharpening, but I’ll be doing that on the next ones. I found it to resist some staining/patina more than some hunters I made out of 1080. There was a noticeable difference in the steel’s appearance after being used on a deer. The 80crv2 has been easy to re-sharpen (though it’s held an edge very nicely) and a steel I plan to use most for general carbon steel fixed blades. Matter of fact, it seems to be pretty stable with a nice thin edge and I want to see if I can find some precision ground stock to try in some folders later this year. I would be curious to hear what kind of heat treat guys are doing with this steel for various applications.

Jeremy
 
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I still think air hardening steels are incredibly easy to heat treat assuming you have a furnace with temperature control and some heat treating foil. The can withstand a healthy range of soak times and are very easy to quench.
 
I’ve played with a few pieces of 8670 from AKS. It seems to tolerate a wide range of aus temps and makes a pretty good blade. It’s super cheap too. It’s been my go to recommendation after 1084 lately. I really like 15n20, but it will give you more with tight temp control.
 
Also, forgeability? As you were discussing with me earlier regarding alloying and resistance to shear in twisting.
 
I've had it recommended to me for choppers, and in particular stock removal hatchets. I haven't tried it yet though.
I've always been one for air hardening myself. I'd almost be inclined to recommend A2 to new makers with an oven. Its probably the cheapest and easiest to deal with air hardening steel that comes to mind, and will still make a great blade without cryo (not to say it doesn't benifit, just that you miss out on a lot less skipping cryo than on something like aeb-L) for people not quite ready to buy a dewar. Out of the non stainless steels I've used, A2 is definitely my favorite one. Very tough stuff, and holds an edge rather well for what it is.

I'll be interested to see how 80crv2 compared to a2 for chopping applications
 
How finicky is O2 in the HT? I know it gets SUPER dark in a damascus mix and it could be had if you talked to somebody like the Bestar guys in Atlanta.
 
It mixes well with 15n20 but be carefull, it can air harden from forging temps and needs to slow cool after working. I’ve had it crack sitting on the table too long.

Hoss
 
In my opinion, being rather new to all this. The easiest and best results I’ve had so far have been with 15n20, 8670, and w2. This is all done with a small forge, and canola oil originally. I never got good results with 80crv2. I have several bars of it, so now that I have an oven, more testing is in order.
 
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