Tip up / Tip down?

A

Allan DeGroot

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Jun 15, 2019
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It seems to me that these terms are not as clear as they could be when discussing folding knives....

Does "tip down" PRESUME where the tip actually is or where the tip WOULD BE if the knife was opened?

I just want a bit of clarification....
 
Allan DeGroot said:
It seems to me that these terms are not as clear as they could be when discussing folding knives....

Does "tip down" PRESUME where the tip actually is or where the tip WOULD BE if the knife was opened?

I just want a bit of clarification....
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It refers to the direction the tip points when the knife is closed.

Tip up: clip is by the butt of the knife

Tip down: clip is by the pivot of the knife.
 
Ok if that is the case then tip up seems more practical as when the knife is unclipped it is already in the most usually used orientation, rather than "reversed in the hand" for an "overhanded stabbing motion"
 
Allan DeGroot said:
Ok if that is the case then tip up seems more practical as when the knife is unclipped it is already in the most usually used orientation, rather than "reversed in the hand" for an "overhanded stabbing motion"
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Perhaps for you and I, but there are plenty that feel tip down allows for the more natural motion. All about preference.
 
Allan DeGroot said:
Ok if that is the case then tip up seems more practical as when the knife is unclipped it is already in the most usually used orientation, rather than "reversed in the hand" for an "overhanded stabbing motion"
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It all just depends how you first grab the knife. Particularly on longer handled knives tip up can leave the thumbstuds or flipper tab quite far away when drawn leading to one needing to reposition their hand to access them.
 
benchwarmer380 said:
Perhaps for you and I, but there are plenty that feel tip down allows for the more natural motion. All about preference.
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Well for me as ALL my "clip equipped" knives are "speed safe" AO Kershaws it is otherwise difficult or impossible to open them in any other orientation.

I've been trying to open my #1885 "Entropy"(on which the flipper tab is both smaller and closer to the pivot, less leverage than on the "Freefall" with other than my index finger and all attempts result in the knife FLYING out of my hand, with my #3840 "freefall" I've actually opened it with my middle finger ONCE without dropping it. While with the knife "reversed in my hand" I can open it with my pinky-finger about 2/3 of the time without dropping it... But I'll also add that most folders seem to be designed to be held with the pivot near your thumb...
 
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Allan DeGroot said:
Well for me as ALL my "clip equipped" knives are "speed safe" Kershaws it is otherwise difficult or impossible to open them in any other orientation.

I've been trying to open my #1885 "Entropy" with other than my index finger and all attempts result in the knife FLYING out of my hand, with my #3840 "freefall" I've actually opened it with my middle finger ONCE without dropping it. While with the knife "reversed in my hand" I can open it with my pinky-finger about 2/3 of the time without dropping it... But I'll also add that most folders seem to be designed to be held with the pivot near your thumb...
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Just try clipping the tip down knife to the zipper side of your pocket rather than the hipward side. However many people are opposed to carrying knives like this because you are completely relying on the knife having a good detent not to open slighly when clipped to this position.

Either way this is what designers envisioned as the way a tip down knife can be in exactly the right position to open upon drawing.

uXoBJ9i.jpg
 
As NONE of my current knives allow the clip to be mounted near the pivot, that experiment will have to wait for a new acquisition that does. It seems to me however the greater "flex" of my Levi's at the front of the pocket opening would not allow getting most of my knives clipped there and not lose them because of the softer clip "action" that would be necessary.
Also as I typically unclip my knife by "hooking" my finger around the pivot end of the knife, which "prepositions" my index finger near the flipper, I suspect carrying any other way would require retraining myself to any new method, which I might then subsequently have to train myself out of doing....

I will say that I am sitting here T-6 in hand reversing the clip on one of my "Freefall" knives so the one in my left pocket opens toward the seam, even though no speed safe knife has EVER opened itself in my pocket.
 
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As my Kershaw "Freefall" mounts the clip with a single screw into the back-spacer at the "butt" of the grip, and my "Entrope" via premade holes in the butt end if the G10 grip scales and I don't feel like drilling holes into the spring assist area, I'll say again it'll have to wait.
 
Allan DeGroot said:
As NONE of my current knives allow the clip mounted near the pivot that experiment will have to wait for a new acquisition that does. It seems to me however the greater "flex" of my Levi's at the front of the pocket opening would not allow getting most of my knives clipped there and not lose them because of the softer clip "action" that would be necessary.
Also as I typically unclip my knife by "hooking" my finger around the pivot end of the knife, which "prepositions" my index finger near the flipper, I suspect carrying any other way would require retraining myself to any new method, which I might then subsequently have to train myself out of doing....
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Drawing a knife isn’t that complicated. It doesn’t really require retraining. Even if it takes a few tries to get used to it I presume you are generally not drawing your knife in scenarios where your life depends on the quickness of that draw.

I am left handed but carry right handed folders. So I carry my tip up knife in my left pocket like this. I’ve never had an issue carrying this way.

8l1g0J0.jpg
 
As I am a recovering stroke patient I must consider the necessity of retraining myself to do many things.

It took me more than a year to be able to carry anything in my right hand without dropping it, if I failed to make a continuous effort to watch my right hand.

It made walking around while holding a "open" cup of coffee challenging for a while. (to this day I use a "locking" stainless steel coffee cup (A Stanley))

But it made me conscious of a need to preplan each and every footstep.
But by and large I recovered well.

The stroke primarily affected my balance, but it also "erased" a "resting tremor" that caused me problems while bulls-eye shooting, so it actually made me a better pistol shot!
 
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Allan DeGroot said:
Ok if that is the case then tip up seems more practical as when the knife is unclipped it is already in the most usually used orientation, rather than "reversed in the hand" for an "overhanded stabbing motion"
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Depending on the factors involved of course. For instance I carry relatively long folders and when I pull out the knife my hand is a long way from the bottom end of the blade. This partly has to do with my clothing, i.e. I generally wear fairly tight jeans. So clothing and kinfe size are big factors. With a shorter knife I can do tip up/tip down equally well. I've seen videos of people carrying tip up in their pajamas and able to deploy them quickly. Loose pajamas are a lot different from tight jeans.

Consider that some people like tip up because they think it is safer in their pocket. Other people claim they have been cut when putting their hand in their pocket after their tip up knife opened slightly. If you like to sue lanyards then you will need to carry tip up. Many knives with molded handles such as the original Delica could only be made tip up. Prior to that most knives were tip down.

Also consider that most discussion relates to right-handed people carrying in their right front pocket. There are lots of people left handed and/or who want to carry in other pockets or manners.

Put all this together, throw in personal preference, throw in mythology, throw in internet untruths, different people have lots of reasons for why they like their carry method. There are plenty of good knife brands made both ways, some where the clips can be re-positioned, so there is plenty of room for personal preference.
 
Don't mind me but if I were carrying for defense, I'd prefer a fixed blade, preferably something that would be impractically large as a folder.

actually I'd prefer a "stand off" / "ranged" weapon, I.E. an axe or spear, or a Remington 870 12Ga and buckshot:)
 
All these arguments for/against tip down/up due to speed or convenience of retrieving is VERY trivial IMO. The only factor making sense to me is safety. That is, the spine of the blade should be against the seam of your pocket. Either tip down or tip up can achieve that, depending on in which pocket you clip your knife.

For example, Spyderco military with only tip up right hand option, should better be carried in the right rear pocket.
 
sharp_edge said:
All these arguments for/against tip down/up due to speed or convenience of retrieving is VERY trivial IMO. The only factor making sense to me is safety. That is, the spine of the blade should be against the seam of your pocket. Either tip down or tip up can achieve that, depending on in which pocket you clip your knife.

For example, Spyderco military with only tip up right hand option, should better be carried in the right rear pocket.
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I agree. This is one of those things where there is no right answer for.

Just do whatever works best for you.
 
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