tip up- what am I doing wrong

[bdmicarta]

I've read lots of divisive threads about one method vs. the other. I started looking only at knife models that fit my carry preferences but there were so many of the other type knives that I liked that I had to stop my prejudice and end up with knives of both types.

I have to make both types of carry work for me but I'm having trouble. So many people claim that tip up is easier but I have trouble and even after doing a lot of research I still can't make it work. So what am I doing wrong?

I pulled a couple of knives out of my EDC rotation and had my daughter take some step by step photos as I demonstrated:

First this is my interpretation of tip up carry.
Lets start with a Manix 2 in the pocket. I wear jeans almost every minute I'm awake. I'm not fat or skinny but my jeans are normally a little tight.-

I grab the end of the knife with thumb and finger-

This is how it comes out-


When I get it in my hand you can see how far my thumb is from the blade hole. Not possible to open with one hand. What I sometimes do is a little toss up in the air to rotate the knife and position it where I can open it. At best this is another step, at worst it is insecure and I can drop the knife-

I've seen people on youtube demonstrate tip up wearing pajamas, obviously looser material with larger pockets. I'm guessing you can get more of your hand into the pocket to grab the knife. With my jeans this is the best I can do, with my thumb crammed deep in the pocket. This makes it hard to pull the knife out, there is nothing to grab onto. I have to put my fingertip on the end of the clip and pull up that way, and my fingertip slips off half the time.

When the knife comes out my thumb is still not on the opening hole so I have to shift the knife before I can open it. With a larger knife like a military or manix 2 XL it is hopeless, but with a tiny knife like a dragonfly I can make it work.

Now this is how I do tip down.
Start with a PM2 in the pocket.

Pull it out with thumb and finger-

The knife falls into my hand with my thumb right at the opening hole-

 

[Agith]

With spyderco knives especially? You can usually get into the habit of resting your thumb into the hole and using your ring and middle fingers to brace the blade. As in you're more using those to fingers and part of your palm to withdraw the blade as opposed to your thumb and index finger. Typically my middle finger ends up overtop the spine of the blade when I do this (as in they wrap around the blade then rest on the spine). But that's easy as just extending it to open the blade then closing your finger back around the blade.

If needed, I can see if I can post some pics to try to explain it better

But what is more important?

Do you prefer tip down? If you prefer tip down then who cares what other people prefer? It's your choice. Personally I do prefer tip up because it's a bit safer. But beyond that any differences are skin deep

 

[Goosey]

Agreed. Prefer tip-down on larger folders.

 

[Danke42]

I find I can get my thumb right onto the hole of my PM2 when I have it front pocket tip up and pull it up and out then snap it open.

Maybe shove your hand in a bit deeper till you feel the hole with your thumb.

 

[trevitrace]

I find I can get my thumb right onto the hole of my PM2 when I have it front pocket tip up and pull it up and out then snap it open.

Maybe shove your hand in a bit deeper till you feel the hole with your thumb.

:thumbup:

 

[Sonnydaze]

When I bring the PM2 out of my pocket, tip-up, the butt of the grip, automatically and easily, slides into the pocket of my palm under the base of my thumb. That positions the spydie-hole directly under my thumb...ready to open. Quick and easy...
1. pull out the knife...butt slides into palm-pocket...
2. spydie hole is directly under my thumb.
IGNORE THE GREEN TAPE...

...about two steps max.

 

[Sigsog226]

I found either carry is just as good, its a preference thing. I have small-med hands and the pm2 is my primary edc in tip up.
Most of the time i use my index finger to grab the tip of the clip and start pulling it out til my thumb reaches the spydie hole.
And the other way i do it is to use my four fingers to grab the front of the knife on the outside of my pocket and my thumb on the spydie hole and yank it out. Sounds kind of strange when i write it out, but i can open it that way just as fast as a wave method.
I do where looser clothing though(cargo khakis about year round). With jeans which tend to be tighter, i use my second method alot more.

 

[Wowbagger]

OK tip up clipped to pocket ; how to open without tossing or other precarious shifting of the knife in the hand :



Grip the end as you did




Pull knife out of your pocket . .. non dominant hand sneaks in to the rescue


more of the same


Next we have a new concept / method

Ignore the clip . . . if your knife is a Cold Steel Hold Out I
Just sitting in your pocket the end of the knife lays were it would if clipped.



Push your hand all the way to the bottom of your pocket and grip the knife with your thumb on the opening stud.


Pull out the knife


OK the next bit is one motion with a swing like opening a gate or a back hand in tennis . . . er . . . so everyone stand back . . . no a little further back . . . that's good . . . can you still hear me from there ? Good. Annnnnnd swing . . . with a little push from my thumb. Whammo ! She's open.



Easy one hand open but do think up what to tell the cop about why you carry a knife twice the legal length .

 

[G. Scott H.]

I grab the end of the knife with thumb and finger-

This is how it comes out-

The way you're doing it here is exactly the way I draw my tip down folders, and it works fine for that. For tip up you need to start at a different angle. In the first pic you need to put your wrist in front of the knife and angle your hand back toward it, rather than having it straight up and down. This way when you draw the knife you will draw it up under your hand and it will end up with the thumb hole pointing forward toward the web of your hand, rather than facing straight down toward the ground. I was going to do a couple pics, but photobucket isn't cooperating with me atm. :grumpy: Go to 0:38 in this vid to see what I mean. Note the position of his hand as he reaches for the knife. :thumbup:

[video=youtube;XtaFt-svKPY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtaFt-svKPY[/video]

edit: Now photobucket decides to work. Here's a still I grabbed from the vid of the hand position:

 

[Bill1170]

It feels to me like people sometimes overthink this. If rapid deployment is the goal, wave hook is the way to go. For all normal uses, tip up and tip down both function well. One reason I prefer tip up is that the clip doesn't compromise my grip on the handle when I'm cutting things. Set up for tip down carry, the clip makes the grip less comfortable on the models I carry the most. Your mileage may vary. Try stuff and find what works for you, your uses, your hands, your favorite folding knives.

On a really long handled folder like a Military, tip down makes good sense because the hole is near your thumb as you extract it from the pocket.

 

[SW-EDC]

You grab with thumb and fingertips to initally bring out.
Tip up carry.
Ok. My Protech TR-5 SA has a deep pocket clip tip up.
I grab with deep thumb in pocket, index and middle pulling it out (long pants, shorts).
Comes out immediately. Blade deployed immediately.

It will take practice. I've never owned a Spyderco but it should be no different tip up.
Over time and practice, it's second nature.

 

[gadgetgeek]

Every knife and pair of pants will act differently. I recently got a knife that I'd had in storage, a full size griptillian. I was really confused since the clip seemed to be on the wrong side, how could that be? Then I thought way back and remembered that I'd started carrying it left side in a cargo pocket since I had a multi on the other side. This didn't last long before an international move put the grip in storeage. Long story, point is, knives have pocket clip holes in lots of places to fit the people that use them. Carry the knife how you can be comfortable and happy, just like everyone else. And if you need to change it, screwdrivers are cheap.

 

[Wowbagger]

Bdmicarta

Don't get me wrong I read in the other thread about the photos your daughter had taken of this above and hoped you would find time to post them. Thank You !

Honestly I agreed with what you were saying over there. I am a little too new at this thumb opening knife thing to have really decided about it all so your thoughts and others are interesting to me.

What do I know; I spent almost my whole knife life with slippys including a 110 lock back and fixed blades. It has only been the last few years I got geared up with modern deployment systems.

 

[Wowbagger]

G. Scott H.,

I finally got what you were talking about . . . I think . . . and it works. . . are you hooking the lowest tip end of the clip with your finger to pull the knife off your pocket ? (with your thumb well down in your pocket obviously)

 

[Riz!]

BDMicarta,

I find tip up on longer folders to cause me the same issues. The tip down on the Spyderco Military is down right perfect for the draw you do. Its how I draw the Military and let it swing into my palm and it ends up with my thumb right on the hole. I also wear my jeans roughly the same fit as you. Give the Military a try. Also I say carry what works for you because it works, not because it is the cool way. Also I have found that tip down allows way less pocket lint in the locking mechanism.

Riz

 

[FlaMtnBkr]

I shove my thumb as deep as I can right in front of the knife, then slide my thumb back over the knife. I then take my index finger and bend it so it is essentially perpendicular to my straight down thumb, and pinch the knife which usually lays my index finger right below the end of the pocket clip, and then while pinching the knife and 'scooping'/pulling the pocket clip from under the tip, pull the knife out. If you don't feel your thumb is close enough to the blade pivot you can pull the knife up a little by bending your index finger and sliding the knife up a bit by the end of the clip and once your thumb is where you want it pinch the knife and pull.

Once out, your thumb will be close to the pivot and opening method and the handle will be in the palm of your hand. Again, use the index finger and clip tip to hold the knife in place and slide your thumb the last inch or so to get the knife in a position to open it.

Good luck!

Edit: For non flipper knives I take the knife in my palm and pinch the knife between the meat under my thumb on one side of the knife (presentation side of frame lock) and my pinky, ring, and middle finger on the other side (lock/clip side). The finger tips are placed along the edge of the pocket clip and the edge of the handle scale where the blade enters the handle. With my fingers curled around I pull the knife into my palm by holding onto the clip and pulling it into my hand. Doing this I can hold the knife tightly with my thumb free to do whatever which is normally flicking the blade open.

A bent over thumb with the tip in a spydie hole or right under a thumb stud so the tip of the nail is touching either, and flick your thumb straight up inline with the handle, like shooting a marble. This will rocket the blade open.

 

[cchu518]

BDMicarta,

I find tip up on longer folders to cause me the same issues. The tip down on the Spyderco Military is down right perfect for the draw you do. Its how I draw the Military and let it swing into my palm and it ends up with my thumb right on the hole. I also wear my jeans roughly the same fit as you. Give the Military a try. Also I say carry what works for you because it works, not because it is the cool way. Also I have found that tip down allows way less pocket lint in the locking mechanism.

Riz

This is quite funny I was actually thinking about how "top" heavy the milli is this past morning. So much so that I fitted a lanyard to it so that I could drop it tip up into my pants.

I'mm a tip up carry guy myself.

 

[aquaman67]

Notice where the spine of the blade is?

With tip up it's against the back of your pocket. It's impossible for it to open as long as you keep it tight against the back of your pocket.

With tip down there is nothing holding the blade closed except the detent.

 

[bdmicarta]

Thank you for all of the responses. I have been using pocket clips for over 20 years and I really enjoy the convenience that they provide. I've carefully read the responses and I've been trying different things. I was remiss in not providing the usual disclaimer that this discussion mostly applies only to right hand front pocket carry.

With spyderco knives especially? You can usually get into the habit of resting your thumb into the hole

But what is more important?
Do you prefer tip down? If you prefer tip down then who cares what other people prefer?

With my jeans I can only get my thumb in the pocket deep enough so the end of my thumb can barely feel the edge of the hole, but not hook into it for traction. I do prefer tip down because that's what I was using over 20 years ago and it has always seemed faster and more direct for me, but I also like the various Manix 2 models and they are only tip up. I had a ZT 0561 that was set for tip up but don't have it any longer, or my Benchmade 581 Barrage. I carry the Manix models most often but I still own a Gayle Bradley 1 and a Vallotton. I couldn't let my prejudices restrict me from such interesting knives. And I wanted to find a way to show that all of the people that like tip up weren't completely off base.

I find I can get my thumb right onto the hole of my PM2 when I have it front pocket tip up and pull it up and out then snap it open.
Maybe shove your hand in a bit deeper till you feel the hole with your thumb.

I've tried. I can feel the edge of the hole but I can't use it to pull the knife out. I'm well over 6' tall and have long fingers.

When I bring the PM2 out of my pocket, tip-up, the butt of the grip, automatically and easily, slides into the pocket of my palm under the base of my thumb.

Looks like a little "inch-worm" crawl there to get the knife in position. I've been doing that myself.

For tip up you need to start at a different angle. In the first pic you need to put your wrist in front of the knife and angle your hand back toward it, rather than having it straight up and down. This way when you draw the knife you will draw it up under your hand and it will end up with the thumb hole pointing forward toward the web of your hand, rather than facing straight down toward the ground.

I've been reading the responses and trying different things. Your photo seems to be the best approach. Tip down I would pinch the knife between my thumb and first finger to pull it out. Tip up with my thumb deep I couldn't do that but I've discovered by curving all of my fingers as in your photo I can pinch the knife between my second and third finger and the heel of my hand, or even pinch several fingers against the base of the clip to get enough traction to pull the knife out. I can even put fingertips on the end of the handle across the opening right where the tip of the blade goes into. This will take some practice but it is promising. With a Manix 2 when I pull it out this way my thumb is not right on the blade hole but it is close enough. Even with the Manix 2 XL this works reasonably well because it has a non-deep carry clip. Interestingly the XL has that little hook at the end of the handle and I can even put a fingeritp against that. Now a longer knife like the Military would not work quite as well because the hole would be farther away but it might work well enough. I'm going to keep my Military tip down so this is just an academic conversation.

Give the Military a try.

I have one and I carry it for certain situations, I was carrying it today.

I shove my thumb as deep as I can right in front of the knife

Edit: For non flipper knives I take the knife in my palm and pinch the knife between the meat under my thumb on one side of the knife (presentation side of frame lock) and my pinky, ring, and middle finger on the other side (lock/clip side). The finger tips are placed along the edge of the pocket clip and the edge of the handle scale where the blade enters the handle. With my fingers curled around I pull the knife into my palm by holding onto the clip and pulling it into my hand.

I have long thumbs but still can't reach the blade hole.
But your "thumb meat" vs. fingertips seems to work the best.

Notice where the spine of the blade is?

I was aiming this thread at deployment of the knife and ignoring the discussion of safety.
I have read of people having blades open when carried both ways. I have no problems with any of the 10 or so different folder models that I've carried in recent years but if a person is afraid of their knife opening then they should only carry that knife in a sheath. Most of the time carrying against the pocket seam will do the trick but my knives occasionally move in my pocket so this method isn't 100%.

 

[FlaMtnBkr]

I find my thumb doesn't quite reach the opening hole either. But when I use my index finger on the outside, with the tip curled and under the end of the clip to help pull the knife out, once in the hand I can keep the knife in my hand in the same position and easily extend my thumb and slide it up the handle and into l position.

Keep playing with it and you will get it. I don't have huge hands and probably in the medium-large to large size (size 10 or 11 if you've ever tried on sized gloves) and have no problem negotiating 5" handle knives.