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Tired of Bad Mannered New "Shoppers"

ooitzoo said:
I think situations like this really depend on the specifics. There are absolutely people on this forum with whom I'd have no reservations in doing a FF deal. These are generally people I've dealt with before and have good feedback. Obviously, if its a random guy who signed up last Friday then the obvious response is "no".

I will say I tend to use FF for non-US deals. I do this because I don't want to deal with either postal fraud or with outright fraud by the buyer (and not having recourse in a random country).

As with most things, its a judgement call based on the facts you observe.
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Sorry if I am beating the dead horse and being grumpy, and I could have picked many other posts , you are just the lucky one:)
The concepts of right and wrong and G&S and FF seem to allude many. It isn't use PP correctly if it is convenient. Use of PP is on the honor system and many are failing. For purchase of goods and services you use G&S. If transferring money to a friend or family member (no purchase involved) it is F&F.
It's pretty simple
If you are willing to compromise honesty with PP, where else might you compromise, if it is to your benefit?
 
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Peter Hartwig said:
Sorry if I am beating the dead horse and being grumpy, and I could have picked many other posts , you are just the lucky one:)
The concepts of right and wrong and G&S and FF seem to allude many. It isn't use PP correctly if it is convenient. Use of PP is on the honor system and many are failing. For purchase of goods and services you use G&S. If transferring money to a friend or family member (no purchase involved) it is F&F.
It's pretty simple
If you are willing to compromise honesty with PP, where else might you compromise, if it is to your benefit?
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PP doesn't provide the same level of protection to the buyer internationally (none at all as far as I can tell) so I don't see the moral quandary.

With certain people on the forums, I am perfectly fine with plugging any gaps in value on a trade with PP FF cash. This is because I've dealt with them before and they have impeccable feedback here. Its highly doubtful they'll step out of line to gain ~$100 and destroy their reputation.

As far as "compromise honesty", you can miss with me with that nonsense. If you want to spend your time white-knighting for PP over fees on $50 then go for it. I have better things to do with my time.
 
ooitzoo said:
PP doesn't provide the same level of protection to the buyer internationally (none at all as far as I can tell) so I don't see the moral quandary.

With certain people on the forums, I am perfectly fine with plugging any gaps in value on a trade with PP FF cash. This is because I've dealt with them before and they have impeccable feedback here. Its highly doubtful they'll step out of line to gain ~$100 and destroy their reputation.

As far as "compromise honesty", you can miss with me with that nonsense. If you want to spend your time white-knighting for PP over fees on $50 then go for it. I have better things to do with my time.
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It is not about the guarantee, but about paying for services you use. I personally don't use PP. There are other options if you don't want to pay them, but if you use them you should pay IMO
If you are willing to compromise on your ethics with PP, you might also be willing to compromise on my transaction-not saying you would, but it leads to that ?. Where do you draw the line
but I will leave it there. I don't want to ruin the thread with a squabble(over something that has been talked about many times before).
 
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I've done F&F transactions here - both ways, and never got burned. It's scary sending a stranger $2000 F&F but I CHOOSE to trust people here. I don't feel like I'm abusing PayPal - not in the least. They have made plenty of money off me as I've used them since their inception. As for FB or IG, no way. :rolleyes:
 
Coyja said:
100%
I just block people all the time now, too, just so I proactively can avoid future BS.

IDK when exactly, but maybe 5ish years ago it seemed like people no longer understood how to negotiate.

FB is even worse.
I can post a “taking public offers, please don’t PM me” and I’ll still get a half dozen “what do you want for it” messages immediately, with half of those guys continuing to be super aggressive until I block them too.

It’s like an entire generation of people learned to haggle from the manufactured fake reality of pawn stars or something.
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In recent months I have had to block several members here. For the longest time we had a long standing rule of no bashing of member’s sales threads or complaining about price. They wouldn’t honor that and so they are now blocked. Some of them are habitual low-ballers who want a great deal so they themselves can turn around and flip the knife for a profit or better trade deal. Unfortunately were an even mix of noobs and long standing members.
 
I try not to sweat the small things in life. I'm not offended by low-ballers**, if they're not offended by "no". Two things that do annoy me:
- People who ask for details that are already in the posting or can easily be googled (for a standard production item). Most irritating to me is people who ask "What do you want for X?" when the price is already written in black-and-white.
- People who ask multiple questions, want additional photos / videos, etc, and then after all that give me some BS low-ball offer. If you know you're not going to be offering a good price, then say that up front, so I can judge whether it's worth my time to get into two days of back-and-forth with you.


** I assume we all have different ideas of what low-balling is anyway. As far as I'm concerned, I don't low-ball, but I may offer something significantly below the asking price if I think that's (at least close to) the best I can do, and they're being unrealistic in what they're expecting to get.
 
As a new member - I happened on the forum when searching for a specific knife that I wanted. It helped that the seller listed a solid price and had decent pics. I PM’d the seller and the transaction went off without a hitch. (assuming, delivery and product comes through etc.)

I agree with the frustration of having buyers bid down a price in the thread. I had that happen when buying and selling camera lenses when I used to be a photog. Fake ads were frequently created with lower prices on eBay, craigslist and other sites some even with my same pics of the product - in an attempt to drive the price down.
I would tell them - “Thanks. You are welcome to buy from that seller.” (Which I knew did not exist, since no one would sell a lens at that price unless it was damaged.)

If you have a good knife at a fair current price good people will come to find it through an internet search. Unfortunately you will draw others as well.

There is a line in the “rules” that refers to spamming/flooding out a thread, etc. but yes it would be good to allow for deleting of comments - in threads that are for sales. For now though a polite, public reply works fine as well.

Thanks guys. I am glad that the forum exists - keep at it.

Dan
(Yeah - I’m new(days ago), but I have a pile of knives and used to be a Green Beret, so I may feel the need to comment from time to time. Oh and I hate S30V - like its a religion - have one - what a bitch to sharpen - never again.)
 
It's always tough being new. I was ghosted by a seller on my first attempt to buy here, simply ignored my post (his ad did not specify anything about shipping internationally or not so I posted my usual acknowledgement that IF he sold all additional shipping etc was mine to pay) but not even a "sorry US only", he marked it sold and I politely asked if it was to me and if so I wanted to get the payment made asap. Ignored that as well. Thankfully the next person I saw with a similar blade was happy to work with me.....and so a slippery slope began... :D New does not mean bad and sellers can be just as rude as buyers at times. It is all a trust game.
 
Brummie said:
I try not to sweat the small things in life. I'm not offended by low-ballers**, if they're not offended by "no". Two things that do annoy me:
- People who ask for details that are already in the posting or can easily be googled (for a standard production item). Most irritating to me is people who ask "What do you want for X?" when the price is already written in black-and-white.
- People who ask multiple questions, want additional photos / videos, etc, and then after all that give me some BS low-ball offer. If you know you're not going to be offering a good price, then say that up front, so I can judge whether it's worth my time to get into two days of back-and-forth with you.


** I assume we all have different ideas of what low-balling is anyway. As far as I'm concerned, I don't low-ball, but I may offer something significantly below the asking price if I think that's (at least close to) the best I can do, and they're being unrealistic in what they're expecting to get.
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At this point asking me “what do you want for it” or “what’s the lowest you will go” is an immediate block.
Tell ME what you want to pay, and then we can have a conversation, but don’t expect me to do the work for you.
 
Coyja said:
At this point asking me “what do you want for it” or “what’s the lowest you will go” is an immediate block.
Tell ME what you want to pay, and then we can have a conversation, but don’t expect me to do the work for you.
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This is not only done by "New" people. I can't even fathom the laziness required for someone to ask me to negotiate against myself on their behalf.
"What's the lowest you'll go?"
"For you, 10x what I asked in my post."
 
Coyja said:
At this point asking me “what do you want for it” or “what’s the lowest you will go” is an immediate block.
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“What’s the lowest you’ll go?” is irritating, but I can live with it. There’s just something about asking “what do you want for it?”, when I’ve already stated what I want for it, that gets my goat (even though I know of course that functionally they’re saying the same thing).

But then I’m British, and people saying “I could care less” is like the sound of nails on a blackboard to me. I take offense at the illogicality.
 
"What'll you take for it?" is a legitimate question. Many people give themselves room to move. It's also a cultural thing, some cultures, regions, etc. have different bartering rituals. At gun and knife shows I go to, most people will come off the first price. A knife store I go to gives 20% off for cash, but you got to ask.
 
brownshoe said:
What'll you take for it?" is a legitimate question
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It may be a legitimate question, and there may be cultural differences, but in this milieu, ”What will you take,” rarely results in an “I will take it.” An exchange like this usually results in “ghosting” or a lowerball offer. When I wish to pay a different amount, I respectfully submit the price(via PM) that I will take the item.

There are many reasons why my ads include “All rights reserved as to whom I sell to.“ “What will you take“ is one of them.
 
brownshoe said:
"What'll you take for it?" is a legitimate question. Many people give themselves room to move. It's also a cultural thing, some cultures, regions, etc. have different bartering rituals. At gun and knife shows I go to, most people will come off the first price. A knife store I go to gives 20% off for cash, but you got to ask.
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20% for cash is very generous. It's almost unheard of.
 
brownshoe said:
"What'll you take for it?" is a legitimate question.
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In my experience it usually just results in me bidding against myself. I give them the lower figure and then they come back with a even lower figure. I prefer if they want to offer a lower price, just do it. From there I can accept, reject or counter. If it is very far off my original figure I usually just reject it.
 
Brummie said:
I try not to sweat the small things in life. I'm not offended by low-ballers**, if they're not offended by "no". Two things that do annoy me:
- People who ask for details that are already in the posting or can easily be googled (for a standard production item). Most irritating to me is people who ask "What do you want for X?" when the price is already written in black-and-white.
- People who ask multiple questions, want additional photos / videos, etc, and then after all that give me some BS low-ball offer. If you know you're not going to be offering a good price, then say that up front, so I can judge whether it's worth my time to get into two days of back-and-forth with you.


** I assume we all have different ideas of what low-balling is anyway. As far as I'm concerned, I don't low-ball, but I may offer something significantly below the asking price if I think that's (at least close to) the best I can do, and they're being unrealistic in what they're expecting to get.
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I agree with most of what you've written. The only exception is that I will ask "what is the condition of the [item]?" immaterial of what the post says unless I know / trust the seller. I do this because PMs / emails cannot be edited once sent (trading / sale posts can) and because I may want more specifics. For example, some companies have been known to have fit & finish issues or lock up issues out of the box. So, I want to know if that's the case with the specific knife I am getting immaterial of the "NIB" in the post or title.
 
ooitzoo said:
I agree with most of what you've written. The only exception is that I will ask "what is the condition of the [item]?" immaterial of what the post says unless I know / trust the seller. I do this because PMs / emails cannot be edited once sent (trading / sale posts can) and because I may want more specifics. For example, some companies have been known to have fit & finish issues or lock up issues out of the box. So, I want to know if that's the case with the specific knife I am getting immaterial of the "NIB" in the post or title.
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If I've stated something is NIB, and someone asks "What is the condition?", I probably wouldn't find that a very helpful question. If they have specific questions - "Is it centered?" "What's the lock-up?" etc - I'm fine with that. I do find it strange that a number of people have said something to the effect of "It arrived in much better condition than I expected" for something that I've already stated as NIB.
 
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